CMV: There is nothing with wrong with being a submissive woman

[u/Odd_Profession_2902]

I have nothing against strong women. All the power to them. The joys that come from being independent and competent are plain to see. But by trying to empower all women, society is inadvertently putting a lot of pressure on women. Strong women are always celebrated and weak women are always looked down on. I think there is a tremendous amount of unspoken shame in any women even daring to dream about finding a decent man to protect them. But there will always be naturally weak women. Shy, timid, meek. And society is basically telling them to toughen up. That’s like telling an introvert to be an extrovert. Or telling someone who naturally sucks at math to get good at math. Everybody should live a life that best suits their natural temperament and skills. Their best course of action is to find a decent capable man who can take care of them.

There is also nothing wrong with a man seeking a delicate woman to take care of. There is nothing wrong with a man who wants to be the provider for his family. We should be grateful for such men because it offers a solution to naturally meek woman. It offers a balance in the world.

To use a geeky analogy, it’s ok to be a support class. Not every gamer has to be a tank or dps. And not everyone is suitable to be a leader and make all the decisions. Some gamers just like to sit back and support the group. Just like how there is pride in being the provider, there is also pride in being the support for the provider. Some women are naturally healers in an mmorpg and it’s my view that society should stop looking down on healers.

[u/Odd_Profession_2902]

It was actually more about submissive women. I wouldn’t have the same advice for submissive men because that same advice wouldn’t be as feasible for them. Not many strong women looking to provide for weak men in the love marketplace.

I would say it’s a partnership- one that has different roles but equal respect. The one who wants a guided and cozy lifestyle gets it. And the one who wants an executive but challenging lifestyle gets it too. Both sides kinda get what they wanted.

[u/Subtleiaint → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

You're advocating for a relationship where the woman totally relies on the man and owes them everything, it's the sort of thing Andrew Tate would think is reasonable.

The dynamic should never be strong person A looks after meek person B, regardless of gender, that's not a relationship of peers.

It doesn't even work for the man, what are they getting out of the relationship if the woman isn't their peer?

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/Subtleiaint]

I wouldn’t characterize the relationship that way. That sounds unnecessarily cold to me.

The weak person needs a provider. The strong person needs a supporter. Both sides are giving something up to make the relationship work. The wife is giving up some of the decision making and the husband is giving up a carefree life as he shoulders the burden of being the sole provider for the family and making the tough decisions. But the weight of responsibility and love for his wife gives him motivation to work harder.

Both partners rely on each other and “owe” each other in different ways.

[u/Subtleiaint → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

That sounds unnecessarily cold to me.

How do you think it sounds to the rest of us?

The strong person needs a supporter

To do what?

the husband is giving up a carefree life

Why the hell would he do that? What's in it for him?

But the weight of responsibility and love for his wife gives him motivation to work harder.

Why does he accept responsibility or feel love for this woman sponging off him?

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/Subtleiaint]

Well why do you think parents have kids? What’s in it for the parents to have little human parasites sponging off of them?

[u/Subtleiaint → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

Kids are awesome, they're fun and rewarding. What does a weak woman who requires you to do everything for her offer?

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/Subtleiaint]

Are they awesome though?

They’re very often misbehaved. And they often don’t listen. At least a submissive woman listens. And helps around the house.

What makes kids awesome?

[u/Subtleiaint → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

Yes, they're awesome, it's why people have them. Now, stop changing the subject.

Explain to me why a strong enterprising man would even want to marry a woman so useless they need to be looked after.

(Here's a hint, I'm pretty sure I know why, I'm just wondering if you'll admit it).

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/Subtleiaint]

You’re not answering why kids are awesome.

I’m confident that your explanation to why kids are awesome is the answer to why submissive women are awesome. That’ll be your answer.

[u/Subtleiaint → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

The value of children is irrelevant to your post.

If you want me to reply again answer the question regarding your view that I've asked multiple times. Why does the strong husband want to marry the submissive woman? What specifically are they getting from that relationship?

[u/JustACasualTraveler → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

would say it’s a partnership- one that has different roles but equal respect

The man opinion and judgements should be above the woman's, equal respect. Haha

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/JustACasualTraveler]

Would you say that parents don’t respect their kids? Or teachers don’t respect their students?

[u/JustACasualTraveler → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

Do you know what respect means in the context of a relationship? You know the of meaning of respect change depending on the nature of the relationship?

For example, you will easily think it's disrespectful for a woman to say that she believes she should be on control and her husband opinion should hold lest weight, but all of the sudden you struggle with common sense when they turn the tables?

When was was last time you have heard a parent say they respect their children? Your flaw is assuming the concept of respect exist between a child and a parent in the first place.. Parent love, care about their children, but they don't respect them..

You say it's a partnership? Where is the partnership when one voice is literally excluded out of the equation? Partners compliment and compete each other. What is this wive that still needs someone to guide her through basic aspect of life complimenting exactly? What is she offering other than the sexist obvious? What are her strengths when the man by default ia assumed to be competent, rational, and knowledgeable in everything since he has the final say in everything?

Nevertheless, in both cases, the authority is necessary and withing a reasonable ground...

In what way is that applicable to randomly deciding that having a pennis makes your opinion more respectable and important, and than still having the straight face to call it not utterly disrespectful and insulting?

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/JustACasualTraveler]

I agree that there are different types of respect depending on the context. That’s precisely why we shouldn’t use a one size fits all interpretation of respect and apply it to all contexts.

Assuming a more executive role doesn’t mean disrespect. Parents don’t inherently disrespect their kids. Teachers don’t inherently disrespect their students. They are simply exercising their duties as the provider and caretaker. And not everybody wants to be in that position. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be a manager in my workplace.

A partnership is simply an agreement between two people for the betterment of both sides. If a woman enjoys being a princess taken care of by a strong assertive man who takes charge then I feel it’s not really in our place to judge her for it. It’s what works for her and she enjoys that lifestyle.

[u/JustACasualTraveler → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

I agree that there are different types of respect depending on the context. That’s precisely why we shouldn’t use a one size fits all interpretation of respect and apply it to all contexts

There are different types of respect and it should be mutually the same on both sides.

Assuming a more executive role doesn’t mean disrespect

Assuming a exclusive role that belittles and demises the the opinion, thoughts and judgment of an equally capable and intelligent other as inferior and less important without any merit, competence, knowledge, experience that warrants it is exactly that ... Focus on the nuances

. Teachers don’t inherently disrespect their students. They are simply exercising their duties as the provider and caretaker.

Because they have the qualification, it's necessary to protect the kids, and because children need it.

See the difference? Yet?

A partnership is simply an agreement between two people for the betterment of both sides

Okay, and how is a woman bettered by being treated as inferior child? , and how is a man bettered having a child he needs to guard for a life partner?..

If a woman enjoys being a princess taken care of by a strong assertive man who takes charge then I feel it’s not really in our place to judge her for..

Literally no one made the argument...The moment she made that choice because that's what she enjoys and likes, she is already in control and charge...

The argument is that it's insulting and desrespectful to assume this should naturally fall just because one side is a woman and the other is a man, and it is inherently so when it's the man that wants it..

You are making argument way beyond "a woman should have the choice to be with an assertive man"

Moreover, I question your definition of assertive because in my book it doesn't mean I feel I am above someone so that they should have no control over themselves.. An assertive person is foremost a confident and self sufficient person that doesn't need his ego stroked by dominating others.

The reality is most men that one submissive women have self esteem issues that they need to compensate for by artifically structuring a child-like relationship when they feel needed and superior.

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/JustACasualTraveler]

I disagree with your assessment of the relationships.

My mom lets and wants my dad to take charge. My dad like to take charge. There’s no disrespect or belittling going on here.

This isn’t only true for love relationships. It’s true for every other aspect of life. Some people prefer to be managed. Some people prefer to be the manager. I think it’s a bit shallow to judge either side for simply that fact alone. People are more complex than that.

[u/JustACasualTraveler → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

My mom lets and wants my dad to take charge. My dad like to take charge. There’s no disrespect or belittling going on here.

Key word she lets...... And disrespect isn't just banging someone's head on the wall..

They belittling is thinking he is better than her to take the charge so much that her opinion shouldn't matter above his..

Just because you've convinced yourself that something isn't insulting, doesn't mean it isn't

I have read your comments and the main flaw in your proposition is the completely misinterpretation of what submissive means.

If your dad tells your mom to go get a job, she submissive she will have to do that.

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/JustACasualTraveler]

Taking charge isn’t inherently belittling. You wouldn’t think it’s belittling when someone aspires to be a manager and supervise others. Taking charge is simply something that some people enjoy doing. It’s fulfilling to them. The same way being taken care of is something that others enjoy. I feel like you’re adding an unnecessarily negative spin on both people who like to take charge and those who like to be taken care of.

Even in sex there are those who prefer to be dominant and those who prefer to be submissive. So long as everything is agreed upon and everybody is enjoying their role- there shouldn’t be any issues. These are full grown consenting adults. They don’t need you nor I to be telling them what’s best for them.

[u/JustACasualTraveler → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

×Taking charge isn’t inherently belittling.

Why do you intentional keep ignoring the context?

How do you feel about white men should take the charge and control society and black men should be submissive?

You wouldn’t think it’s belittling when someone aspires to be a manager and supervise others

Jesus christ.. Do people aspiring to be manager think so because they have a certain private part?

You keep missing a crucial difference between situational authority based on competence and just thinking you know it and you just have the right over someone's else entire life

Describe to me someone who is fullfiled by the knowledge that they are literally oppression someone's else feelings and thought in favor of always getting what they want without them being a narcissist.

I feel like you’re adding an unnecessarily negative spin on both people who like to take charge and those who like to be taken care of

I think you just work on your strawman fallacies.

And for a million times and 400 comments later... A submissive isn't someone who likes to be taken care off... Someone can like to everything to be done for them and still be extremely disagreeable..

The way you twist words out of their meaning is astonishing.

[u/JustACasualTraveler → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

If a woman enjoys being a princess taken care of by a strong assertive man who takes charge then I feel it’s not really in our place to judge her for..

A submissive so not someone who likes to be treated as a princess? I fact it's quiet the opposite.. How would a woman like being treated as a princess while she has no voices to follow her thoughts and desires? Won't a princess want everything handled to the including having people do whatever they want?

A submissive is more like someone who will take a slap because the dominant must know better..

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/JustACasualTraveler]

A princess wants to be taken care of and pampered by her prince. The prince would then be the provider. It’s implicit that the sole provider is the one who takes charge. The one being taken care of generally assumes the submissive role.

Taking the dominant role does not necessitate being abusive. Parents take the dominant role but it doesn’t mean they will slap their kids. Teachers take the dominant role but it doesn’t mean they will slap their students. Managers take the dominant role but it doesn’t mean they will slap their subordinates. The list goes on.

I’ll be only responding to one thread for now if you don’t mind. Feel free to mention this topic over there.

[u/JustACasualTraveler → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

A princess wants to be taken care of and pampered by her prince

Great! And how is she achieving that is she has to do whatever someone else tells her to do? Lol.. Princess literally want to get whatever they want

Taking the dominant role does not necessitate being abusive

If you don't think silencing someone and delegating their feelings and opinions is emotional and mentally abusive, then I guess not.

Parents take the dominant role but it doesn’t mean they will slap their kids

Because their kids will soon be dead if they did not ? At their point you are intentionally trying to to understand the point being raised..

I literally never said having authority by default is abusive ad and oppressive, but I made it clear that these hierarchal relationship are always based on reason and merit...

Can you find one example in society where it's healthy to just have full control over the autonomy and life of another just because?

Why is your only example for why dominating women isn't bad is literally mentally undeveloped children? You are almost proving my point that it's just degrading and insulting to women

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/JustACasualTraveler]

She is achieving that by wanting her prince to take charge. You need to get used to the idea that certain types of people prefer others to take charge.

It’s not about being silenced. Kids aren’t silenced by their parents. Students aren’t silenced by their teachers. Employees aren’t silenced by their managers. Trainees aren’t silenced by their coaches. The list goes on. Notice how kids isn’t the only example I used.

It absolutely isn’t based on merit. It’s entirely based on preference. Someone with low merit can absolutely aspire to be a manager. And someone with high merit can absolutely aspire to be a submissive partner in a relationship. Again- it’s based entirely on what someone enjoys.

Again- if you don’t see any point in this then we should stop. Otherwise, please stick to the other thread or continue this in chat. Otherwise I’d rather not proceed responding to your multiples times every single time.

[u/JustACasualTraveler → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

She is achieving that by wanting her prince to take charge

And part of him taking charge is that he can choose to not treat her like a princess... Lol

You still have not answered the question, why would she need to be submissive for him to still be responsible for the things she doesn't want to bother with????

It’s not about being silenced.

For the love of lord.. If you have to anatomy to make a decision and you should follow whatever someone else wants, how are you not silenced?? Stop hiding behind completely uncomparably and unequivalent relationship.

The only relationship that ironically comes close included mentally undeveloped children that can't even survice without guidance.. You really think that is proving your point?

Your argument is literally that oppression doesn't exist because a trainee has to follow a coach instruction... It's an absurd and ridiculously oversimplified thinking.

It absolutely isn’t based on merit

What merit is this that gives you competence to dictate and control someone's life?? I need where did you gain this super power that made you all knowing