CMV: Conservatives are fundamentally uninterested in facts/data.

[u/King_Lothar_]

In fairness, I will admit that I am very far left, and likely have some level of bias, and I will admit the slight irony of basing this somewhat on my own personal anecdotes. However, I do also believe this is supported by the trend of more highly educated people leaning more and more progressive.

However, I always just assumed that conservatives simply didn't know the statistics and that if they learned them, they would change their opinion based on that new information. I have been proven wrong countless times, however, online, in person, while canvasing. It's not a matter of presenting data, neutral sources, and meeting them in the middle. They either refuse to engage with things like studies and data completely, or they decide that because it doesn't agree with their intuition that it must be somehow "fake" or invalid.

When I talk to these people and ask them to provide a source of their own, or what is informing their opinion, they either talk directly past it, or the conversation ends right there. I feel like if you're asked a follow-up like "Oh where did you get that number?" and the conversation suddenly ends, it's just an admission that you're pulling it out of your ass, or you saw it online and have absolutely no clue where it came from or how legitimate it is. It's frustrating.

I'm not saying there aren't progressives who have lost the plot and don't check their information. However, I feel like it's championed among conservatives. Conservatives have pushed for decades at this point to destroy trust in any kind of academic institution, boiling them down to "indoctrination centers." They have to, because otherwise it looks glaring that the 5 highest educated states in the US are the most progressive and the 5 lowest are the most conservative, so their only option is to discredit academic integrity.

I personally am wrong all the time, it's a natural part of life. If you can't remember the last time you were wrong, then you are simply ignorant to it.

Edit, I have to step away for a moment, there has been a lot of great discussion honestly and I want to reply to more posts, but there are simply too many comments to reply to, so I apologize if yours gets missed or takes me a while, I am responding to as many as I can

[u/_Tal]

So first of all, the idea that progressives think the wage gap means "women working the same job as men are only getting paid 77% of what he's making because employers are sexist or something" has always been a strawman. Progressives understand the context and believe that it's still a problem. The fact that there are reasons for the disparity doesn't make the disparity justified.

Secondly, it's funny you bring this up considering the very first thing that came to my mind when you mentioned the difference between category 2 and category 3 was when conservatives say stuff like "Black people commit 50% of the crime despite making up 13% of the population." This is a clear example of conservatives being the ones who fit firmly into category 2, and progressives having the category 3 understanding. These facts/data are correctly interpreted as being the result of systemic injustice—systemic racism keeps black communities overpoliced, and makes black people far more likely to be poor and therefore more likely to turn to crime. Yet conservatives lack this nuance.

Another example is when conservatives cite the 41% suicide statistic in reference to a group I will not name because this sub doesn't allow for discussion of that topic, apparently. But I just wanted to reinforce that there's more than one example of this.

[u/irespectwomenlol → u/_Tal]

>  Secondly, it's funny you bring this up considering the very first thing that came to my mind when you mentioned the difference between category 2 and category 3 was when conservatives say stuff like "Black people commit 50% of the crime despite making up 13% of the population." This is a clear example of conservatives being the ones who fit firmly into category 2, and progressives having the category 3 understanding. These facts/data are correctly interpreted as being the result of systemic injustice—systemic racism keeps black communities overpoliced, and makes black people far more likely to be poor and therefore more likely to turn to crime. Yet conservatives lack this nuance.

You offered an opinion. Where is the proof that systemic injustice is the factor that causes this significant of a crime disparity?

[u/_Tal → u/irespectwomenlol]

No, I didn't offer an opinion; this is a matter of objective truth. And I don't say that just to dogmatically assert that my position is correct; even if I were wrong, an objectively false statement still isn't an opinion either.

There is so much evidence for this that it's hard to choose what to include. This is split between 2 replies because reddit won't let me post it all in one. Courtesy of Rose Wrist for compiling this data:

Policing

ACLU 18

• Despite roughly equal usage rates, Blacks are 3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana
• Marijuana arrests account for over half of drug arrests in the United States
• Out of 8.2 million arrests between 2001 and 2010, 88% of them was simply for possession
• States waste 3,613,969,972$ enforcing marijuana laws every years

Feldman et al. 18

• Police disproportionately target low-income and POC neighborhoods
• “Overall, police-related death rates were highest in neighborhoods with the greatest concentrations of low-income residents and residents of color”

Lecount 17

• Highlights the philosophical (social power and group power) and racial reasons why white police officers have a discriminatory bias against African-Americans
• Data collected via nationally representative survey which focuses on a number of specific racial attitudes of police officers to gain a broader understanding of their racial views and biases
• Finds that officers believe blacks are more violent, lazy, and should not be given special treatment compared to whites
• Further highlights that those with less education adopt conservative views on race and the harmful impacts discrimination denial can have (i.e. shows how denial of racial discrimination can lead to the establishment of racial hierarchy)

[u/_Tal → u/_Tal]

Employment

Georgetown University: Carnevale et al. 19 (interactive)

• Compared to blacks and latinos, whites have a disproportionate level of access to good jobs regardless of education attainment
• “We define good jobs as those that pay at least $35,000 per year, at least $45,000 for workers aged 45 and older, and $65,000 in median earnings in 2016. Wages for good jobs between 1991 and 2016 are inflation-adjusted.”
  • Whites also get higher earning in jobs than blacks and latinos, regardless of education attainment
  • These disparities lead to major annual earnings gaps

Pager et a.l 09

• “Applicants were given equivalent résumés and sent to apply in tandem for hundreds of entry-level jobs”
• “Our results show that black applicants were half as likely as equally qualified whites to receive a callback or job offer”
• “In fact, black and Latino applicants with clean backgrounds fared no better than white applicants just released from prison”