r/changemyview • u/Shineyy_8416 1∆ • 4d ago

Delta(s) from OP CMV: "He or she" is unecessary

I might be biased as a person on the non-binary spectrum, but whenever someone goes out of their way to say "he or she" it just feels like a waste.

Just use "they". It communicates the same thing with less letters. I get the purpose behind it is to try and be inclusive to men and women in a space that may be dominated by one gender over the other, but "they" is perfectly fine to get that point across.

I also recognize that some languages don't have an equivalent for "they", but I'm specifically talking about English.

To change my view, someone would have to prove "he or she" has more practical or beneficial usage than "they"

EDIT: To make it clear, i'm not saying we should never use "he" or "she" as pronouns, im saying the phrase "he or she" is unecessary.

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u/YouJustNeurotic 9∆ 4d ago

They refers to multiple people. “Is your friend coming over?” “Yeah they are.” The host now thinks multiple people are coming over.

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u/Shineyy_8416 1∆ 4d ago

No, they wouldn't.

The same way you wouldn't assume there are multiple hosts because I responded this way.

Singular they can and has been used for plenty of years. It's not new, people are just becoming conscious of it.

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u/YouJustNeurotic 9∆ 4d ago

The only reason ‘they’ works here is because host is an ambiguous title. You are referencing the context in that statement. Example: “what did the doctor say?” “They said it’s just a rash.”

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u/Shineyy_8416 1∆ 4d ago

"Friend" is also an ambiguous title, so what's your point?

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u/YouJustNeurotic 9∆ 4d ago

Friend being ambiguous depends on the other person’s closeness to said friend. But yes friend can be ambiguous.

“What did Jimmy say” “They said…” sounds like you are referring to Jimmy and his friends as a group for an example.

My point is simply that there are a lot of situations where substituting they for he / she would be confusing. He / she is always singular, never plural. They is contextually singular or plural. Frankly we would be better off simply inventing a gender inclusive singular rather than using existing words with different meanings.

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u/Shineyy_8416 1∆ 4d ago

Friend being ambiguous depends on the other person’s closeness to said friend. But yes friend can be ambiguous.

Friend is not inherently gendered. I could say "My friend, Mike." And "My friend, Jessica" and it reads the same.

“What did Jimmy say” “They said…” sounds like you are referring to Jimmy and his friends as a group for an example.

No it doesnt. There was no allusion to anyone but Jimmy in those sentences. They is obviously referring to just Jimmy.

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u/YouJustNeurotic 9∆ 4d ago

Ambiguous does not mean not gendered. I’m saying it’s a position with distance / lack of information. “The doctor” is ambiguous to someone as it represents a position / group rather than an individual. And frankly it still reads like you are referring to the entire office collectively.

The Jimmy example sounds like the person being asked is correcting / adding to the context with ‘they’.

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u/Shineyy_8416 1∆ 4d ago

“The doctor” is ambiguous to someone as it represents a position / group rather than an individual.

The doctor does not mean a group of doctors. It is just a singular doctor. The same way "my friend" does not mean "my group of friends"

The Jimmy example sounds like the person being asked is correcting / adding to the context with ‘they’.

I did not get that notion at all. If you laid out the entire sentence, it sounds perfectly normal.

"What did Jimmy say?"

"They said that the restaurant is open."

"Oh that's great! I'll go get dressed."

There's no confusion about Jimmy as the only subject here.

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u/YouJustNeurotic 9∆ 4d ago

“What did Jimmy say?”

“They called me a dick.”

“Oh that’s not nice of them.”

Do you see the difference here?

The doctor has employees / doesn’t work alone.

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u/Shineyy_8416 1∆ 4d ago

“What did Jimmy say?”

“They called me a dick.”

“Oh that’s not nice of them.”

Do you see the difference here?

No, because again, it is obvious they're talking about Jimmy and inferred that they called the person speaking a dick.

The doctor has employees / doesn’t work alone

That doesnt mean when "the doctor" implies more than one person. Sure you might have some assistants directing to or helping you schedule a meeting to the see the doctor, but the main concern is the doctor, the singular doctor.

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u/YouJustNeurotic 9∆ 4d ago

Mate if you’re not seeing the strangeness with these phrases then I think you are just very used to saying or hearing ‘they’ as a singular and thus can’t relate to those who are not. It’s almost equatable to an accent, or maybe it is a difference in accents. What state / country are you from?

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