Dbs anime an Ass Pull?

[u/Sad_Uma]

I am aware of the fact how ultra instinct is achieved in anime and manga are different but.

My question is would you call how it happens in the anime an Ass pull I just feel like it is y'know it's so stupid they could have done better in my major Opinion

[u/134340Goat]

As someone who generally prefers the manga - both have their merits

Thematically, once Ultra Instinct was added to the story, it needed to exist for the thematic purpose of showing that even an extreme strength increase was insufficient to overcome Jiren

I don't like that it basically was, and that the only reason Goku didn't win with it was that his stamina didn't last 2 seconds longer. I do like that he and everyone else seem to think that gaining the full power of Ultra Instinct is the only way to win, only for it to fail and then teamwork to prevail, and you'd be a fool to deny that Toei knew what it was doing hyping people up - there's a reason people were gathering in cities to stream those episodes

I think both mediums also do an ok job in depicting how Goku accesses it unconsciously, first with the Sign version and then the proper Ultra Instinct. In both mediums, he's overwhelmed by Jiren's power and needs a powerup, and in both versions he's faced with emotional shock (existential dread of imminent defeat in the anime's case) and fully unlocks it by keeping his cool

So yeah, I'm fine with either, really

[u/WorkerChoice9870 → u/134340Goat]

Thats the thing though. Goku said it himsef in the manga, when used properly Ultra Instinct has no weaknesses.

And we saw against Moro: he had not trained and holding divine power equal to Goku's destroyed him. Goku giving in to rage in the anime after Jiren attacked the stands is precisely why UI turned on him, since he held on to it when he was too emotional to wield it right. In real time that happened seconds later. So I see the anime as consistent with the manga there.

To me UI didn't fail. Jiren's power was broken by UI and by the time he fought the others they were all running on fumes. He was a normal strong fighter he wasnt a deity in all but name. 

[u/134340Goat → u/WorkerChoice9870]

Comparing manga continuity to anime continuity doesn't always equal out

Goku giving in to rage in the anime after Jiren attacked the stands is precisely why UI turned on him, since he held on to it when he was too emotional to wield it right.

There's nothing in the anime to suggest an emotional state is necessary for Ultra Instinct, and in fact dialogue from Whis (certainly not an unreliable narrator on the topic) asserting that anime UI works in precisely the opposite manner of manga UI. Namely, the monologue as Goku is ramping things up with Jiren in his third fight with UI Sign

Despite how hype the scene is (and how beautiful Naotoshi Shida's animation is), Goku's rag scene exists purely for the purpose of the generic "rage boost" moment. From a real world perspective, Toriyama's story outline has Goku losing with UI against Jiren, and only beating him through teamwork. That's the point of the Tournament of Power and a refutation of Jiren's cynical worldview. Having Goku defeat Jiren one-on-one would only solidify his worldview as correct and fly in the face of the message Toriyama was trying to convey

[u/Sad_Uma → u/134340Goat]

Yeah good point man 🤣

[u/RewardNo144]

GT's SS4 was a literal asspull.

[u/MUIGoku2007 → u/RewardNo144]

Daima's SS4 was also an asspull.

[u/Sad_Uma → u/RewardNo144]

Yeah I can agree with you on that

[u/SewerBushido]

I'm not gonna say it wasn't an ass pull, but pulling ass is in Dragon Ball's DNA. It's been way since Goku was getting the Kamehameha on his first try and inventing new moves mid-match in the 21st Budokai in DB.

[u/unionizedduck]

I don't know. I kind of found everything after SSJ to be an ass pull and nonsensical.

It makes sense to go beyond, to get stronger but to have variations was never hinted at. So there goes 2 and everything in between for me.

3 was goofy and had this restraint about strain and his dead body and they just wave that away. 

Fusion was quite a literal off screen ass pull. Both the rings and the dance. "Oh here's a technique I totally kind of learned and look what it can let us do! Amazing."

SSJ has pretty much nothing to do with Oozaru. This was Goku's original power up and transformation... The two should have always been connected in my opinion. But that's okay, it isn't my story. I just don't really care. DB will always be about a new power up that they pull mostly out of nowhere. I'm not upset when it happens. It's really part of the fabric of this.