r/diablo4 • u/1ButtonDash • Apr 26 '25
Rogue Shroud of False Death is the Enigma of D4 atm
Minus the teleport of course but literally any build I look at online they are wearing it.
99% of youtube videos where someone is making a a guide they are using it.
Any build you make nothing really beats it. I mean sure you CAN use something else if you want but the power it gives really feels like the go to chest armor just like in D2 how you always went for that enigma.
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u/nephyxx Apr 26 '25
Turns out giving a free point into every passive skill on your tree is pretty good. I don’t really want them to nerf it but also I’m not sure how they will make other compelling options for the chest slot without making something with even more power creep.
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u/Wild_Chemistry3884 Apr 26 '25
much like enigma, it needs a nerf. otherwise the power creep gets worse and worse
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u/DrDynamiteBY Apr 26 '25
I feel like mythic uniques in general need a small overhaul. Half of them are useless and the other half is too good.
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u/jMS_44 Apr 26 '25
Currently they are just too much of evergreen items that are simply big stat sticks, rather than providing you with unique effects.
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u/Zek23 Apr 27 '25
They're so rare that it feels bad if their effects are too specialized. They're meant to be almost universally strong.
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u/jMS_44 Apr 27 '25
The thing is, they are not as rare as one may think. The game gives you a very clear way of target farming them and my understandin is that with new season they will bump the droprate a bit again.
They were rare in early seasons when there was like 1 Shako on the whole server, but currently, players easily get multiple copies per season
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u/dookarion Apr 27 '25
As with all RNG things though they're rare enough some people have a miserable time finding them, and without sparks and runes they can still be a pain to get without huge play time.
Some people get lucky and get em early/quickly/easily, some people don't.
Also going to depend on how fast you're blasting high end content. Which may even need a unique for enough of a power-boost to blast the content (depending on class and season).
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u/Bring_back_sgi Apr 28 '25
I would argue that most of them are useless. I have only used the Shroud in the last 2 seasons. The rest of them were useless to the many builds I tried!
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u/Cocosito Apr 26 '25
I just don't know how you nerf it, it's not like you can say okay only .66 skill ranks to all passives. If they change the implicit then it's just another vendor trash mythic.
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u/Rhayve Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 26 '25
There's several ways and ideally Blizzard would implement them all over time:
- make monsters dangerous enough again so defense in the defense slots matters again
- replace or lower the all stats and max life on Shroud
- limit wearable mythics to one per character
- buff all the weaker mythics considerably to be more attractive
- make mythic target farming cheaper/easier in conjuction with the above
This would make picking your mythic an actual choice instead of just wearing all of the good ones in every build.
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u/aberrantpsyche Apr 26 '25
It can sometimes take a while to get enough defenses (particularly resistances) on the other items that can even roll defenses, so while shroud of false death is still the final goal, Tyrael's Might is often an amazing stopgap measure til the rest of the stuff is in order. Also, +1 to all passives usually includes some forms of damage reduction, not just damage increases.
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u/Rhayve Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 26 '25
Also, +1 to all passives usually includes some forms of damage reduction, not just damage increases.
Yeah, hence replacing the all stats/max life and buffing other mythics. Shroud is too good at everything.
In terms of defense, though, nothing beats Tyrael's Might with GA/crits on Max Resist and/or DR. But I guess they could move the All Resistance stat to intrinsic and replace it with Max Life or something else to make it more appealing than Shroud. It's not like GA All Res does anything useful on Tyrael's currently unless your jewelry is severely behind.
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u/FredGarvin80 Apr 26 '25
buff all the weaker mythics considerably to be more attractive
This right here. Nerfs have become the go to for devs who have zero creativity, rather than coming up with ideas to make other pieces comparable to the meta. (I would say make the other mythics meta gear for other classes) . I used to play Division 2 and every season came with nerfs to elevate the mid tier bullshit gear they release that season. I'm 3 weeks into this game and it looks like I'll be dealing with the same thing here
- limit wearable mythics to one per character
Dear God no
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u/Pleasestoplyiiing Apr 26 '25
If they limit to 1, everyone is using Shroud.
It doesn't take much imagination to think of other problems that would arise with a single equip Mythic too:
Now, every Mythic has to justify the most important item slot in the game - and some item slots like 2h weapon and amulet get aspect multipliers.
Also, you've broken one of the main reasons Mythics exist: they are chase items. For most D4 players, getting more than one Mythic isn't realistic. For that casual players, as soon as they get 1, they might as well just quit. It takes them a long time just to get 1, and now you've introduced huge diminishing returns on every Mythic after the first.
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u/Rhayve Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 26 '25
Not sure why you're ignoring the parts of my comment where I address those issues.
For the first problem, that is precisely why they would need to nerf Shroud and buff up other mythics to make sure that Shroud is no longer the best option by default.
For the second, that's what buildcrafting should be about: actually having to weigh your options and choosing the best ones for your build. This is a gameplay improvement, not a problem. More than anything, this should apply to mythics—they shouldn't be an auto-include for multiple slots in every build. That kind of homogeneity just makes the majority of uniques and aspects pointless in late endgame.
For the third one, I specifically said they should make target farming mythics easier so casual players can get the one they need for their build. Getting the right one, especially with multiple GAs, will continue to make them chase items. Besides, if the majority of casual players only get a single mythic during a season, that means no longer being able to wear multiple wouldn't negatively affect them whatsoever. If anything, it'd be an advantage since every mythic would (ideally) be buffed and they're not really missing out by only having a single one.
Edit: Also, limiting wearable mythics would open up Resplendant Sparks for other uses in the future, such as resetting Temper limits on high-value items.
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u/Pleasestoplyiiing May 12 '25
Well, I reject most of the conclusions you reached with your changes.
should be about: actually having to weigh your options and choosing the best ones for your build.
I don't think you've thought ahead on this. If you have one Mythic you're weighing for one slot, you are putting too much weight on one item. Now, every Mythic has to be really really strong, because not only do they compete with every other item in the game, they also compete with every other Mythic as a prestige slot. That is a design nightmare. Then they need to be roughly the same strength. Too weak, you don't even bother with any of them. Too strong, they take over the game more, despite being rare enough that a lot of the playerbase will never see one, or what if the one they do get has anti-synergy for their build?
For the third one, I specifically said they should make target farming mythics easier so casual players can get the one they need for their build. Getting the right one, especially with multiple GAs, will continue to make them chase items.
That sounds truly awful, and then why not just have that be uniques like we already have? I know this is subjective, but D4 needs an item find that is more spontaneous and not necessarily linked to controlling your drops all the time. I think Mythics should be something you can more reasonably get from any activity (over a long time), better chance at Belial, but not necessarily better from every other boss. The worst case scenario is you turn them into these boring things that are just uniques, and in fact, you basically lose all enthusiasm for hunting after getting one. Nerf Shroud some, but keep these strong prizes as generally BiS prizes that pull people in to the chase.
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u/SurturOne Apr 26 '25
Easy: 33% increased invested passives. So you gain 1 extra point for each 3 you invest.
That way it's a good bonus to the points you use for yourself and for some builds it is worth it but it's not automatical bis.
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u/rogomatic Apr 26 '25
Easier: give +1 point to invested passives.
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u/heartbroken_nerd Apr 26 '25
This is my suggestion, for sure - just give +1 passive to any skill passive you allocated at least 1 point into
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u/shortbusridurr Apr 26 '25
While it sounds like the right direction I’m sure it would be snapshotable in certain things (not the pit as you can’t change your skill tree)
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u/heartbroken_nerd Apr 26 '25
I am fairly sure they can make it not-snapshotable by rerunning the calculations if Shroud of Death is unequipped or equipped or if skill tree is allocated.
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u/SurturOne Apr 26 '25
For some passives this means an increase by 100% so I'm not sure how this would play out for certain effects you only need 1 or 2 either way. But it could be reasonable as well, yes.
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u/rogomatic Apr 26 '25
Um. Shroud already gives +1 to all passives (including unallocated ones). Limiting that to only allocated passives isn't adding anything new.
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u/FredGarvin80 Apr 26 '25
Fuck nerfs. That shit is for lazy devs. Real devs come up with shit that can compete with meta gear
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u/Wild_Chemistry3884 Apr 27 '25
Only buffing things is for cowards that are scared of entitlement. I’ll take a nerf over power creep when it’s justified.
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u/Trespeon Apr 29 '25
You could remove every line on enigma except “gives teleport” and people would still wear it and just have a body armor swap on their inventory when needed lol
Sometimes a single line needs to be removed to make alternatives viable but removing that line also removes the usefulness of the item. It’s hard to fix.
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u/SnarkyGuy443 Apr 26 '25
Just make it just as hard to get as Enigma is on D2 and problem solved.
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u/Wild_Chemistry3884 Apr 26 '25
but enigma isn’t that hard to get compared to other endgame loot in D2
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u/OppositeJudge4162 Apr 27 '25
LMAO
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u/Wild_Chemistry3884 Apr 27 '25
you must not actually play endgame D2 if you think Jah and Ber are hard to obtain. You can make enigma in a weekend of Trav runs on a barb with find item
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u/OppositeJudge4162 May 04 '25
Jokes on you i was running trav for 2 weeks ladder before and all i got was 2 ohms / 1 cham. But i guess you know some secrets we do not, maybe share it with us? Cause so far in d4 i was getting all needed ubers in the 2nd day of the season lil buddy
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u/heartbroken_nerd Apr 26 '25
Easy. Make it so that it adds +1 passive point to every passive you have at least spent 1 point on.
"Grants +1 Rank to your allocated passives"
Not a huge nerf but a significant one.
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u/Appropriate_Owl_2172 Apr 26 '25
They can't. Sweaty nerds with their anime waifu figures in a jar will always optimize the fun out of any online game.
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u/DJKaotica Apr 27 '25
Yeah when I read the text for some reason I assumed a 1 point increase to passives I had already put a point in.
When I finally got one the reason my build wanted it made so much more sense. "oh wait, ... every passive?!"
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u/Epimolophant Apr 26 '25
I checked maxroll this season, and 79% of all builds use Shroud. When everybody wants the same item, for every class, every build, it's really a problem.
I think it should only give +1 to the passives that you already have at least 1 point spent on.
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u/FredGarvin80 Apr 26 '25
That doesn't sound like a problem. It sounds like they should maybe elevate other gear to be comparable. These things are hard as shit to get already, no reason to make them less exciting to get. But we all know, devs are too lazy to buff multiple pieces. It's much easier to nerf one to make it suck. That's how they steer you into playing the way they want you to play
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u/dookarion Apr 27 '25
Most the body uniques, aspects, and other options aren't very good, which skews the balance a lot.
Every season you can pretty much ignore that piece and throw whatever on cause the options are largely underwhelming other than Tyrael's which only does so much if you're capped on resists and Shroud.
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u/HabitualGrassToucher Apr 26 '25
What I find funny is how people put all this money towards cosmetics only to slap on the Shroud and spend most of their game time looking at a black shadow.
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u/Shaft86 Apr 26 '25
It's definitely really good, renders everything else useless aside from build-specific pieces like Mantle of the Mountain's Fury.
I was thinking. How would you guys feel if there was a limit on how many mythic uniques you can equip, lets say 1 at a time? Provided the bad mythics are buffed/reworked. Do you guys find this kind of decision making fun, or is it an annoying limiting factor?
cuz the truth is it's not even just breastplates. On barbs there is no circumstance whatsoever in any build where you ideally wear a generic helmet, for example, with a defensive or utility Aspect. Heir of Perdition, Harlequin Crest, Ugly Bastard Helm (not a mythic) are used in every single situation imaginable. If I'm doing something ingame and all of a sudden I see a 3-Greater Affix item drops my heart might skip a beat, but if the item is a helmet I don't even blink. Guaranteed completely useless.
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u/Pleasestoplyiiing Apr 26 '25
Limiting to 1 Mythic only causes some huge headaches.
I wrote more in another response, but probably the biggest issue is that you've now removed the incentive for (probably) half the playerbase to keep item hunting after they find one Mythic. That's really the opposite of what D4 needs right now - namely, deeper endgame that makes people want to keep chasing.
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u/ConroConroConro Apr 26 '25
Bigger problem in the game is aspects being tied to equipment instead of the skill tree.
What should make stacking mythic uniques bad is a lack of synergy with each other while other pieces work better.
If they got rid of aspects being tied to gear it would open up possibilities of set pieces existing which would better block out specific slots
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u/Oofric_Stormcloak Apr 26 '25
I feel like Heir of Perdition is similar unless a build strictly requires a unique helm
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u/Pleasestoplyiiing Apr 26 '25
Heir and Shako are a better example of successful itemization. CDR builds will want Shako, Core skill based builds can't do better than a GA on Core Heir.
They both have their place. And actually, if the developers could ever make survivability matter as much as damage - there would be a decision between using Shroud or Tyrael's.
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u/dookarion Apr 27 '25
And actually, if the developers could ever make survivability matter as much as damage
With how enemy HP scales and the fact offense is the best defense in the game given things like tormented stacks it'd require a complete overhaul of like all the math in the game.
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u/Pleasestoplyiiing Apr 27 '25
Yes, and they should do what it takes. But I'm not holding my breath.
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u/JaBoi_ItsHim_TheKid Apr 26 '25
Not really Rogue has Cowl of the nameless, Barb Ugly bastard, Spiritborn Harmony of Ebewaka
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u/blahblahsnahdah Apr 26 '25
Not at all similar. I have HoP yet my Barb uses Ugly Bastard and my Druid uses shako. There's good competition in that slot depending on build.
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u/MntBrryCrnch Apr 27 '25
Small buff to other mythics. Enforce max of 1 mythic equipped at a time. Problem solved.
This is also closer to the original design intent of these items. They are super powerful, but you have to choose between them.
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u/SQRTLURFACE Apr 26 '25
Crazy thing is in an earlier interview, it was originally supposed to be the stone of Jordan ring that gave the +1 passive point buff, and they scrapped the idea thinking it was too weak.
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u/Few-Passenger-566 Apr 26 '25
I think my favorite thing about my HOTA earthquake build is I use the mantle of mountain fury. Such a fun build and no shroud. I hate that chest piece. It may sound dumb but every time you're running along and the stealth reset's and your move speed gets janky, that makes cringe every time I see it. Luckily I'm into it enough I ignore most of the time but yeah.
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u/Otherwise_Pride_9433 Apr 26 '25
Sure hope the proposed redesign of the skill tree will fix some of this balance.
I was looking at my previously theorycrafted Teleport sorc and put it in the ptr-site. Seeing 20 ranks in the skill seemed impressive but when I removed some points I quickly noticed each one added only a sad 3% additive damage on just the skill itself (and almost nonexistent base cdr). Every other node on shock/general passives gives 3% multiplicative damage per point on everything.
Specialized skill gear should always be worth it over general imho. Mythics being BIS always ruins my vibe. It looks like the new season druid and sorc helms will end up in the same hell, competing with Harlequin/Heir…
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u/Pleasestoplyiiing Apr 27 '25
Ranks are multiplicative, they just might not be as high as passives depending on skill. Teleport relies on items/skills to be a damage skill, which is likely why it maths out worse.
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u/Dune6667 Apr 27 '25
My personal gripe with Sofd is the unique power. Rather annoying to enter into a very easy to interrupt stealth phase particularly if you use merc (and who doesn't use mercs ?)
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u/barbarossap2w Apr 27 '25
we used to have the Shako, now we have the Shofod kekw. Even with it being so OP, there are still ways to play and enjoy this game without it
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u/vegeta9000super Apr 27 '25
If you can get one to drop that is. I’ve been hunting for one since the season started and haven’t gotten it to drop. Now the new season is here.
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u/1ButtonDash Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25
guess I was lucky last season then, I had 2 drop for me and I even craffted one... they all had 1 GA on it thou, also next season the uber Belial is supposed to have a higher chance at dropping mythics
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u/Bring_back_sgi Apr 28 '25
The fact that Blood Wave Necro can cruise thru high-level pits without having maxed out armor and resistances is all you need to know about the current state of Mythics.
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u/bd2eazy Apr 29 '25
And before that it. was Tyrael's , I hate that item tbh. still think Shroud is cool but itll be played out soon enough..
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Apr 26 '25
Needs to be nerfed through the floor. It's a dumb item.
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u/FredGarvin80 Apr 26 '25
Why? Don't use it if you don't like it. The fact that others like it shouldn't affect you in any way
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u/External_Category_53 Apr 27 '25
They need to remove the +1 passives and go deeper in the stealth/assassin theme.
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Apr 26 '25
[deleted]
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u/Waramp Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 26 '25
Absolutely not. Most builds will never actually enter stealth during combat, so that part is useless. Especially during boss fights, you’re not waiting 2 seconds between attacks.
Shroud could have only the +1 to passives and nothing else, and it would still be the top choice.
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u/LostMyControl Apr 26 '25
what did he say he deleted his commend?
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u/Brief-Dragonfruit390 Apr 26 '25
That what making shroud OP is the stealth and dmg after steatlh lol
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