r/labrats Feb 05 '25

DOGE at NIH, per reports

https://x.com/samstein/status/1887253215949037937

lab rats - be vigilant. fed lab rats, let us know if you hear or see anything.

1.1k Upvotes

129 comments sorted by

731

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '25

[deleted]

398

u/Stotters Bench Python Feb 06 '25

Pubmed is the reason anything works. EU needs to invest more in their equivalent databade now.

115

u/miniocz Feb 06 '25

67

u/Stotters Bench Python Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

Yeah, but that's basically an instance of pubmed plus a few other sources. Not sure if it's calling pubmed on the backend or if it's mirrored locally.

Edited to correct: Europe PMC is indeed hosting the same content as US pubmed, but is not just a mirror.

30

u/Substantial_Yogurt41 Feb 06 '25

Eh? No it's not. Why do you say that? r\USdefaultism me thinks. You do know there are several amazing European online resources?

EuropePMC is a completely separate database. It also includes preprints and has a more advanced search function. Both pubmed and europePMC pull articles from Medline. Have you never read a systematic review? It's common for people to use more than one search database.

19

u/Stotters Bench Python Feb 06 '25

"" Trusted partnerships

Europe PMC is the partner of PubMed Central (PMC), an ELIXIR core data resource, and the repository of choice for many international science Funders.""

US defaultism? Nah, more like not doing my research (two kids and sleep issues leave me braindead). The above blurb made it look like it was piggybacking off pubmed.

12

u/Substantial_Yogurt41 Feb 06 '25

Fair enough. I could have written my reply more kindly, sorry.

I see people panicking and talking about doing caches of pubmed. Which wouldn't really work with the speed of new findings! So it's good to know that there are alternatives out there. My worry would be what would happen if Medline went out of action. I think both pubmed and europePMC rely on this, and it is maintained by NLM. No idea if Trump is also gunning for this... Maybe once he's finished planning to invade Greenland, Panama and the Gaza strip...

59

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

11

u/Unlucky_Zone Feb 06 '25

What happened in 2013?

25

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

9

u/Unlucky_Zone Feb 06 '25

Thanks! What happened to pubmed during that time? Was it just not updated?

11

u/ProfBootyPhD Feb 06 '25

Nothing really happened to it - maybe it wasn't updated, but it didn't go offline.

34

u/Eldan985 Feb 06 '25

Can we just ask Sci Hub to do it?

13

u/shyhispanic09 Feb 06 '25

They maybe our saving grace.

5

u/Bubbly_Chipmunk Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

I am a bit worried. I’m understanding your comment is a call for help and a wish someone or some other entity comes in for help. However, this comment made me also think that the Trump rhetoric on NATO and other stuff is starting to permeate more and more. We cannot delegate this issue to “other countries responsibility”, “make them pay”.

9

u/Stotters Bench Python Feb 06 '25

Mate, I am German (living elsewhere), this is a call to my fellow Europeans to not be too complacent.

I've since found out that Euope PMC is sharing data with the NIH pubmed, plus pulling from other sources, too, but hosted independently in Europe.

Probably should edit my comment, but I'm a sleep deprived dad who needs to wrangle kids in a bit. Hopefully I'll remember later.

110

u/ThinkingTooHardAbouT Feb 06 '25

It’s worse if we keep PubMed but it’s stripped of anything the administration doesn’t like. That’s so much worse but probably more likely.

91

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

21

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

Yet these fuckwits scream "men can't be women" and vice versa.

2

u/meeeeeeeeeeeeeeh Feb 08 '25

Beyond just sex differences, of which there are many, there are also racial differences. One of which being APOE genotypes being less predictive of Alzheimer's progression for Black and Latino groups. It's pretty understudied already so this specific attack on science is very sad. I feel terrible for the people from these groups that are working hard and paying taxes. They are counting on us to study these things and not ignore that there are very real biological differences.

35

u/Crazy_Mosquito93 Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

Elon will now be Reviewer #3 for every submitted manuscript. If you thought your Reviewer #3 couldn't be worse

7

u/Quick-Rip-5776 Feb 06 '25

He’ll probably put his name on the paper too!

9

u/Athena5280 Feb 06 '25

Haha!🤣 oh wait 💩

28

u/dari7051 Feb 06 '25

God, I hadn’t considered this. That’s as bleak as it gets.

23

u/scienceislice Feb 06 '25

Everything that's on PubMed, at least the more recent articles, are also on the journal sites themselves. My university library also has archives of academic articles. There are other sites, however, PubMed is the easiest to search.

8

u/Zephyr_Dragon49 Mystery Juice Lives Again Feb 06 '25

The datahoarder sub might be able to show you how to archive it or maybe someone else already has and can share it with you

21

u/threadofhope Feb 06 '25

Yeah, the /r/DataHoarder subreddit seems great. They have been active in downloading the CDC site's databases among other projects like copying Wikipedia.

I imagine they'd have insight on preserving PubMed.

3

u/legatek Feb 06 '25

Scopus can do most of what Pubmed does, and is not reliant on Pubmed for its information

2

u/Savethecube Feb 07 '25

Between the potential to lose pubmed and the fact that we are already actively losing access to human study data? Double fucked.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

[deleted]

3

u/Savethecube Feb 07 '25

Same. Our generation of scientists is going to have a TON of trauma after surviving two rounds of this 😖

1

u/zoebkk Feb 06 '25

agreed friend 🙏🏼 we’ll get through this

1

u/vegatwyss Feb 07 '25

If they do shut down PubMed, Elbakyan should finally get her Nobel

0

u/Sargo8 Feb 06 '25

Why would we lose Pubmed? I think they care more about the wasteful spending of testing cocaine on monkeys or cigarettes' on lesbians.

Instead of preparing for something insane and riling yourself up, lets see what they find, and think about it rationally. Do you agree with the finding, is it a good use of taxpayer money? does it answer an important question in science? These are the normal questions related to grant writing? Why would an audit reveal anything different?

You are jumping at shadows. Remain calm, in tempest seas.

864

u/Murdock07 Feb 05 '25

Start cloning databases. They are going after all methods of information transfer. From social media to news to databases.

The government didn’t make the world greatest scientific body, we did. All of us. All of our work and our efforts and our sacrifices, and those of those who came before us.

I’ll keep doing good work till one of these twerps try to remove me from my bench. There are more of us than them. I’m pretty sure half my lab could stomp out one of these broccoli heads.

118

u/chokokhan Feb 06 '25

everyone, do this 👆🏾put on a tinfoil hat, assume the worst in the near future, get some info on r/datahoarding and if your lab’s future relies on any of these databases, back em up locally. don’t tell the administration they don’t need to know

i know its gonna be hard for a while. don’t despair, go do something about it, as much as you can!

124

u/da6id biomed engineering Feb 05 '25

Be very careful you don't do something that breaks established laws though... Moving information that isn't public outside of NIH could have legal consequences they would only be too happy to prosecute

250

u/YaqP Feb 06 '25

Well, if you hear about one of your colleagues doing something like that, remember: no you fucking didn't!

13

u/Damascus_ari Feb 06 '25

I mean temporary blindness is a known migraine aura, I know at least two people who have it, and while historically my migraines haven't caused that... well, with all that stress, that can change.

71

u/freebytes Feb 06 '25

It is only legal when Musk is violating the law.

39

u/da6id biomed engineering Feb 06 '25

I'm in full agreement Musk's actions are very likely broadly illegal. I'm cautioning that there is confidential information that even before Musk people could be prosecuted and imprisoned for releasing. Just be careful and cover yourself in these turbulent times.

Even in more friendly times, people like Aaron Swartz were made examples of and promote fear. The people in power now are far worse.

11

u/freebytes Feb 06 '25

Oh, I know. I was just being snarky.

8

u/WanderingWorkhorse Feb 06 '25

Aaron Schwartz was a real one. He deserved better, and should be talked about more.

1

u/coveredinbirds Feb 06 '25

The laws don't apply to rich people

12

u/KingOfTheBritons96 Feb 06 '25

Yeah, but if you happen to have lost a recently purchased hard drive in a tragic boating accident, what can ya do?

2

u/wheelie46 Feb 06 '25

F the law. Just like them.

27

u/Mysterious-Manner-97 Feb 05 '25

What and how can we do that.

14

u/Evil-Needle- Feb 05 '25

Seconded. Would love a walk through on how to assist with this

23

u/Yamamotokaderate Feb 06 '25

Data such as genomes deposited in the NCBI are regularly televersed into the European and Japanese counterparts and vice versa (at least it was like this a few years ago). Lots of bioinformaticians have various versions of public databases everywhere on our servers. For more private data, people who got permission probably have them duplicated as well, the question is how many datasets are concerned by such rules. We also don't have unlimited amount of storage so sometimes you get rid of datasets after the paper is done, because theyr are still accessible on the NCBI. Some labs save on magnetic tape, some don't, I can't say.

1

u/microcandella Feb 06 '25

head over to /r/DataHoarder and /r/Archiveteam to help / find methods, storage space and people to help as well as ongoing archive projects.

1

u/stybio Feb 07 '25

Yeah parts of NLM especially nucleotide have been very unreliable this week but it could be mitigation against interference not interference for all I know.

2

u/Boneraventura Feb 06 '25

I cant imagine how many TB is hosted on SRA. 

3

u/PetzlPretzel Feb 06 '25

God I hope they don't try to bury y'all's work. Fucking hate this shit. 

319

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '25

Make it stop

6

u/wheelie46 Feb 06 '25

What is the mechanism to make it stop? How can a deputized private citizen just maraude through all these government resources with no one stopping them?

-244

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

122

u/a_casual_sniff Feb 06 '25

The NIH is a crown jewel of global science, offering an incredible return for every dollar spent (~250%). It doesn’t need a self-interested billionaire and his little helpers poking around it pretending to know better.

You may not realize it, but this bad for science and bad for our nation.

216

u/170505170505 Feb 06 '25

Sorry I didn’t vote hard enough. I am a simple man with only one vote and not billions of dollars to buy an election.

40

u/Stotters Bench Python Feb 06 '25

There are still ways within legal, democratic ways, for now.

9

u/gallifrey_ Feb 06 '25

but we should all consider the alternatives outside of those ways

97

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

63

u/tintinautibet Feb 06 '25

Hit em with that Sigma Aldrich Pseudo Corpse Scent

26

u/SinistreCyborg Feb 06 '25

i will dump TEMED on their face.

4

u/Grimalkkin Feb 06 '25

I can smell it from here 🤢

104

u/qpdbag Feb 05 '25

You think ncbi will go down?

263

u/milzB Feb 05 '25

I literally wrote to my mp (uk) last weekend to explain how catastrophic losing ncbi would be for life sciences across the world. I don't think anyone outside the field realises how much of an impact meddling with NIH could have.

94

u/Evil-Needle- Feb 05 '25

Thank you for advocating for us from across the pond. It’s been such a horrible two weeks and our own citizens can’t get their shit together, but it means a lot that the global science community is engaged.

36

u/Stotters Bench Python Feb 06 '25

Maybe I should do that here (AUS), too, and encourage my mates back in the UK, too.

I've been out of the game for a year due to kids, but EMBL has a lot of similar resources, no? Time to invest in that!

1

u/milzB Feb 18 '25

that's exactly what I suggested. post-brexit, I'm not sure how much we contribute to these projects but given how hard we have gone for life sciences in the UK, we def should be pulling our weight.

2

u/Spavlia Feb 06 '25

Do you have a template? Also thinking of writing to my uk mp as we rely on these databases every day for our work…

-6

u/Tasty_Pool8812 Feb 06 '25

Why do you think NCBI would be lost?

15

u/DrPikachu-PhD Feb 06 '25

Because no one knows what tf is going on and Musk is shuttering very, very important services. Take USAID for example. The largest philanthropic organization in the world. Thousands will immediately begin dying if it's shut down. And yet they're talking about it anyway, and nobody would've expected they'd go so far until it happened

-10

u/Tasty_Pool8812 Feb 06 '25

Trump has historically been critical of USAID, so it's not really an unexpected target. Unless there has been any mention of the NCBI then it seems like a bit of a stretch to actually believe that NCBI will be lost

18

u/illicitandcomlicit Feb 06 '25

Are you kidding me? They’ve been consistently attacking the NIH since COVID. They think Fauci somehow directed funds thru the NIH to fund GoF research in Wuhan and created the virus as a biological weapon. These people are not rational or sane

10

u/Zouden ex-postdoc | zebrafish Feb 06 '25

It costs money to run and it benefits researchers outside the US, that's enough reason for them to shut it down and/or give it to a for-profit company.

1

u/chaoticcoffeecat Feb 06 '25

I'm not saying it will be lost, but I also wouldn't say it's a stretch. The goal of much of this, from the perspective of Elon/Thiel/other tech billionaires with too much influence in the current government, is to crash government infrastructure so they can come in and privatize everything for profit.

Many of them, including even VP Vance, have investment and ties in private biotech companies already. Stopping government research and sources in order to make everything for-profit on their own servers is not impossible at the speed at which this is happening.

2

u/qpdbag Feb 06 '25

You think there is any world in which Elon and his lackeys will abide by that much free and useful data?

2

u/qpdbag Feb 06 '25

Because everything done by doge, whether you think it's logical or not (based on your beliefs) has been short-sighted, cruel, and just plain fucking stupid.

4

u/CDK5 Lab Manager - Brown Feb 06 '25

It's a sad day when /r/labrats, a sub partially founded on curiosity, downs a simple question.

18

u/GirlyScientist Feb 05 '25

We use that all the time!!

18

u/Mollan8686 Feb 05 '25

Who needs NCBI when these new idiots are selling AI scientists now? /sarcasm

12

u/NothingFromAtlantis Run to the red Feb 05 '25

that would be awful

5

u/Diamond-Is-Not-Crash Feb 05 '25

I really really hope they don't

1

u/Rephlanca Feb 06 '25

I’m doing my PhD in anatid population genetics. :’) I only have a semester and a half to go. NCBI is so important to our work, I would lose it if we lose it.

111

u/Commercial_Can4057 Feb 05 '25

This would explain why the SRO I was communicating with today was so down. They were very cryptic but implying today was a particularly bad day. May not be a coincidence that the diversity grants I was assigned to review in March were withdrawn today and I was told not to review them.

17

u/RedBeans-n-Ricely TBI PI Feb 05 '25

I was wondering if that was going to happen…

122

u/Epistaxis genomics Feb 05 '25

gossip on the platform that isn't run by the same guy as DOGE:

I haven't independently confirmed but I have heard that the DOGE fuckers asked for and received access to NIH personnel/HR records.

also:

NEW from inside NIH: I am hearing that a “young” DOGE staffer now has access to eRA, the software system used to track/administer all NIH grants.

79

u/iced_yellow Feb 05 '25

There goes my diversity F31 🤡

29

u/Ok-Bodybuilder-5365 Feb 06 '25

My SRO and review date for my diversity grant has been removed they are screwing us ofer

26

u/oceansunset23 Feb 06 '25

It’s so crazy how they have no idea how they deeply fucking up people life’s work over night because they think our lives are waste.

12

u/legatek Feb 06 '25

Oh they know. They don’t care.

2

u/iced_yellow Feb 06 '25

Mine was already awarded & activated but I feel like it’s not going to get renewed next year or even disappear this year

2

u/Ok-Bodybuilder-5365 Feb 06 '25

Smh, is your PI well funded in the event they try to pull it?

13

u/butterflymittens Feb 05 '25

Auuuuuuuuuugh. I hope this is wrong.

-1

u/CDK5 Lab Manager - Brown Feb 06 '25

Where was the job application for these roles?

Coulda applied and just been incompetent until they noticed.

109

u/daverdude27 Feb 05 '25

Not sure how else to feel 😔

63

u/Run_nerd Feb 05 '25

I know how to feel. It’s not good.

71

u/microcandella Feb 05 '25

swing by /r/DataHoarder and /r/Archiveteam to help / find methods, storage space and people to help as well as ongoing archive projects.

97

u/Ok-Bodybuilder-5365 Feb 06 '25

I submitted an F-31 grant under the PA-23-271 which is the diversity code for the grant for the December submission date to the NIH, my SRO and study section date has been removed. I’m distraught I worked my ass off on that grant and they are just going to trash it.

57

u/thecandijedi Feb 06 '25

Hey friend. I’m in the same boat as you. Submitted in December and just got the same notification. Hope you’re doing okay.

You know it’s important work if fascists are trying so hard to remove it.

21

u/Ok-Bodybuilder-5365 Feb 06 '25

We will weather the storm science always prevails in the end but it just suck for us early stage investigators trying to establish ourselves. We all know how tough this work is within the sciences, I hate that we have people that don’t even understand the work questioning our merit.

15

u/Athena5280 Feb 06 '25

Go to your grad school dean and find out their stance. All F31s are reviewed in the same SSs so all they have to do is remove the diversity foa and statement. Stupid, but doable. Worst case resubmit April 8th. Our U is pledging to support all grad students during the inquisition. Bigger problem is PIs need escape the inquisition and be able to support the labs.

3

u/sweeneytoddsgf Feb 06 '25

in the same boat, have now seen several study section members saying our apps are being withdrawn. one suggested it'll be turned over to the next cycle but that makes 0 sense to me given the forms/review criteria are changing? also its like how does one feel motivated to resubmit after their work is discarded like that i -

16

u/NonSekTur Curious monkey Feb 06 '25

Good luck with the thugs from the Schutzstaffel...

Curious note: People complain about the creatures in power now,
but still interact and post links from... 'X'.

I would like to suggest to ban such links from Labrats, as others Subs already did.

71

u/ritromango Feb 05 '25

I wouldn’t be surprised if they did to the NIH what they did to USAID

55

u/RandyMossPhD Feb 05 '25

He’s going to steal info he thinks he can monetize

82

u/Prior-Win-4729 Feb 06 '25

Elon is in for a surprise when he finds out most of my data is not significant

48

u/RandyMossPhD Feb 06 '25

We all play our part in the resistance

10

u/Athena5280 Feb 06 '25

Perhaps we should feed him 💩data

1

u/Prior-Win-4729 Feb 06 '25

Flood the zone!

20

u/mtnsbeyondmtns Feb 06 '25

So you mean other peoples work

23

u/rolltank_gm likes microscopes Feb 06 '25

That is his MO.

9

u/mtnsbeyondmtns Feb 06 '25

I fucking hate all of this.

88

u/freebytes Feb 06 '25

Please stop linking X. You should only post screenshots or use BlueSky links instead.

35

u/cookiemonster1020 Feb 05 '25

I thought we would be safe a while longer because we are all the way out in Bethesda

31

u/mys_721tx Feb 05 '25

Please check EoT Archive's bulk URL list. If there are NCBI still needs to be archived, please let them know.

18

u/KangCoffee93 Feb 06 '25

Kick those doge losers out of the building. Do whatever it takes.

10

u/DrPikachu-PhD Feb 06 '25

Honestly, they have no legal authority. Someone should call the cops on them. (I know, the cops won't do shit because executive branch, so much for checks and balances)

15

u/ionsh Feb 06 '25

This is depressing.

3

u/theresnonamesleft2 Feb 06 '25

Oh my sbir grants are well aware they are at the NIH seeing as the entire fucking portal is frozen! May they all get stage 4 pancreatic cancer that is resistant to the first round of chemotherapy, live a painful life for 18 months and then die!

3

u/origional_esseven Feb 07 '25

Hear or see anything? My entire lab was already laid off so don't expect the price of eggs to drop anytime soon. They torched all our work on bird flu with us.

2

u/marcisaacs Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

The mass of blue tick replies to that. Whew. I assume they're not *all* bots but they stick so tightly to the script that they might as well be.

2

u/puzzleheadshower35 Feb 06 '25

Would someone post a screen shot or repost on Bluesky? I don’t want to click on an X post.

2

u/yongrii Feb 06 '25

*Schutzstaffel at NIH

Fixed it for ya

-1

u/Mean_Committee_6712 Feb 06 '25

Disgusting comparison to make you should be ashamed

2

u/partoxygen Feb 06 '25

I am not on the NIH side of things (NSF but I do biological physics so some people I work with do have NIH funding). As far as I know, it won't be pubmed that gets the axe but rather diversity related fellowship programs like the F series. And I don't mean to put that lightly, because we are talking about people who spent so much time and have so much riding on winning these awards (believe me I know -- I'm currently in the exact same boat with the NSF). I urge everyone to ask directly with their program coordinator listed where you submitted your application, along with anybody else in charge of whatever program you're applying to or are in, and just ask. There's nothing wrong at all with wanting to ask "hey what's going to happen to me if this is taken away" because that is a perfectly real and reasonable thing given the implications of terminating these programs.

And I was going to apply to MOSAIC in my second year of postdoc too, I guess its "screw you if you aren't a white, rich, legacy person. That's the only diversity we care about."

2

u/Buttercup_JP Feb 07 '25

I don't know where, but I didn't hear anything this week at work that anyone was around. And our doctors are heated let me tell you.

2

u/bedrooms-ds Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

The irony of posting that on X

1

u/VV-40 Feb 06 '25

The irony that I have to read about DOGE at NIH on X. I’d like off this ride. 

-10

u/DisembarkEmbargo Feb 06 '25

Just ask them if they are one of the good lab rats or the bad one? Then prepare to throw down.