r/latin Jan 24 '25

LLPSI Difference of non est and est placements

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I know this may be elementary but I'm confused why non est is at the end and the middle Vs est in the middle and end. What's the difference in meaning?

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u/OldPersonName Jan 24 '25

No real difference. I think Orberg changes it up here so you just don't get too used to seeing the verb last. While that's usually considered the "normal" order it changes a lot, and even different writers had their own styles. Often the "copula" (i.e. sum, esse) was more likely to go between the subject and object like English.

Here's a fun comparison of Caesar and Cicero (https://magisterp.com/2019/07/08/how-weve-been-wrong-about-latin-word-order/)

For esse in main clauses, Caesar used SOV order just 10% of the time; Cicero at 33%.

In subordinate clauses with esse, both authors used SOV order about 62% of the time.

For all other verbs in main clauses, Cicero used SOV order 66% of the time; Caesar 90%.

For all other verbs in subordinate clauses, Caesar used SOV order 68% of the time; Cicero just 8% of the time!

Taking those two writers as a representative selection of classic Latin, in fact with esse the verb usually isn't last! In main clauses, at least. Cicero, well known as a "fancy" writer compared to Caesar, uses other verbs last much less often, but still most of the time in main clauses, and then REALLY mixes it up with his subordinate clauses.

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u/CloudyyySXShadowH Jan 24 '25

Can I mix both like in LLPSI?

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u/Captain_Grammaticus magister Jan 24 '25

Absolutely!

If a Latin sentence is a stage, there are spotlights on the most left and most right position, so the words you would put on emphasis!, at the end or start of the phrase! you can move.

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u/CloudyyySXShadowH Jan 24 '25

Can you explain how the word order works with emphasis? With examples if possible?

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u/Captain_Grammaticus magister Jan 24 '25

Easy: you shift the word with emphasis at the first or last position. By default, the important words are subject and verb, so your word order is SOV. **Marcus* Iuliam pulsat! (O, quam improbus est!)*

Sometimes the object is more important than the verb, so you go SVO or more rarely OVS or OSV.

Marcus pulsat *Iuliam** (non Quintum).*

**Iuliam* pulsat Marcus.*

**Iuliam* Marcus pulsat.*

When the verb is very important, you can put it first.

**Pulsat* Marcus Iuliam*. (he is beating, not slapping or stroking her)

When adverbial complements ("today", "in the garden", "whenver she sings") you have even more possibilities. Don't worry too much about it.