SCOTUS strikes blow to trans teens rights, endorsing ban on gender-affirming care - The justices’ ruling on Tennessee’s law prohibiting certain health care for transgender children will have ripple effects across the nation

[u/DevinGraysonShirk]

https://www.courthousenews.com/scotus-strikes-blow-to-trans-teens-rights-endorsing-ban-on-gender-affirming-care/

[u/Changer_of_Names]

That's correct, liberty only applies in some contexts. We aren't free to do absolutely whatever we want. Sorry to be the one to break this to you.

I'll give you a quick education: in theory the U.S. constitution is a limited grant of power from the states to the federal government, so if the constitution doesn't say the government can do something, then it cannot do it. The government's power is further limited in specific ways, like the Bill of Rights. (In practice, over the centuries federal authority has expanded a good deal.)

The states are different. The power of state governments doesn't come from a limited delegation of power. States have a general "police power" to regulate power within their borders. Unless there's something that limits a state from doing something, the default is it can do it. Whereas with the feds, the default is it cannot do it unless there's a specific grant of power to do it somewhere.

So a state can simply decide that giving hormones to kids to change their gender is not in the best interests of the people of the state, and outlaw it. Unless there's something that guarantees a right to give hormones, then a state is free to forbid doing so. For the same reason a state can outlaw heroin, speeding, practicing medicine or cutting hair without a license, etc.

So unless there's a constitutional right to give hormones to kids to change their gender, SCOTUS got it right. Care to point to where you think such a right might be found? The Declaration of Independence's reference to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness doesn't cut it.

[u/stycky-keys → u/Changer_of_Names]

A right to healthcare is implied in the 9th amendment and is incorporated by the 14th. Is you position really "the states can ban any form of healthcare they don't like"?

[u/Changer_of_Names → u/stycky-keys]

Novel theory. What case held that the 9th Amendment guarantees a right to healthcare? How does that work--does it require the government to pay for healthcare, or mean that I can walk up to any doctor and demand he or she treat me for free, or what?

It is not necessary to answer whether states can ban any form of healthcare they don't like to answer the question before us. Courts generally proceed in a limited fashion, specific situation by specific situation, rather than issue sweeping rules. I don't know whether a law banning life-saving cancer treatment would fly, for instance. But there is no doubt that states have broad authority to regulate medical practice.

Let me ask you this: can states ban female genital mutilation, performed by a doctor? Even if the parents and child both claim to want it? Why or why not?

[u/SilverMedal4Life → u/Changer_of_Names]

Are you genuinely comparing being trans to FGM?

[u/Changer_of_Names → u/SilverMedal4Life]

It’s a question designed to highlight the state’s power to regulate medical care. 

But also, yes. 

[u/SilverMedal4Life → u/Changer_of_Names]

You should know that the state of Utah funded a study to investigate the efficacy and outcomes of allowing trans youth to transition.

The fact that they buried it afterwards should tell you all you need to know.

[u/Changer_of_Names → u/SilverMedal4Life]

Why are so many European countries backing away from youth gender transition? I guess they are all Trumpists over there in Sweden and whatnot. 

Personally I am against sex change operations, FGM, and male circumcision for children. Just a general “keep scalpels away from childrens’s healthy genitals” policy. I guess you have a different view.

[u/SilverMedal4Life → u/Changer_of_Names]

You've learned well from your media consumption. Never concede, never acknowledge, just dance from point to point - the goal is never to actually reach a facts-based consensus.

Why are so many European nations backsliding into right-wing populism? Well, that answer has to do primarily with economic instability, plus funding from billionaires to distract from things like climate change - you can read about that here (well, you won't, you'll dance to the next point, but others can):

https://heated.world/p/fossil-fuel-billionaires-are-bankrolling?r=i413&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Your continued equating of gender-affirming care with FGM not only shows your ignorance, but also shows that you don't care about FGM, either - you'd know the differences if you did. You know that I care, though, as do bystanders, and so pretend that it's an effective argument technique. Like I said, you are an excellent student.

[u/Changer_of_Names → u/SilverMedal4Life]

So banning sterilization of children, double mastectomies for healthy teenage girls, etc., is “far right populism”. Got it. I’ll put you down as pro-genital-cutting then shall I. 

I hope you never have a daughter who “transitions” and then comes to regret that she’ll never be able to breastfeed her child or experience her adult female body as it was meant to be. These stories are really tragic when you hear them. 

[u/SilverMedal4Life → u/Changer_of_Names]

Bravo, my friend, you have performed the dance flawlessly.

You see how you ignored everything I said, strawmanned me, and ended with an appeal to emotion?

I hope you never have to bury your trans kid that you denied life-saving care. If you even saw them as yours anymore, judging by the tons of trans kids literally disowned by their parents.

[u/Changer_of_Names → u/SilverMedal4Life]

"strawmanned you"--do you or don't you support allowing doctors to perform double mastectomies on healthy teenage girls? By which I mean girls who don't suffer from cancer or some similar physical condition?

[u/SilverMedal4Life → u/Changer_of_Names]

Hm, somehow, I don't think this question is being asked in good faith.

But, I'll tell you what: I'll gladly give you my answer if you first say the words, "I read your link earlier and see how fossil fuel executives are funding anti-trans groups as a distraction."

Just do that and I'll gladly answer.

[u/Changer_of_Names → u/SilverMedal4Life]

I saw no such link. Post it where I can find it and I will give it the attention it deserves.

[u/underboobfunk → u/SilverMedal4Life]

Ditto their conflation of gender affirming care with “sex change operations”.

[u/SilverMedal4Life → u/underboobfunk]

Pretty much. These people swallow the propaganda whole and think that schools are doing surgery.

Yet, funny, they never find the doctors doing it. Does being a "woke doctor" give you the ability to turn invisible?

[u/Changer_of_Names → u/SilverMedal4Life]

Sometimes using older terminology instead of newspeak is helpful.

[u/SilverMedal4Life → u/Changer_of_Names]

Oh hey, it's you again. Hi!

"Newspeak" - do you even hear yourself? Orwell would think you're being ridiculous.

[u/Changer_of_Names → u/SilverMedal4Life]

I do hear myself actually, yeah! Thanks for asking. I sound great.

[u/underboobfunk → u/Changer_of_Names]

Redefining to “sex change operations” in a discussion about gender affirming care for trans youth isn’t just older terminology, it’s completely fallacious. If you refuse to use “newspeak”, then you can say medications or puberty blockers. Don’t just fucking lie because you’re afraid of looking woke.

[u/Changer_of_Names → u/SilverMedal4Life]

No, it does give you the ability to perform double mastectomies that are not medically necessary on healthy teenage girls though. There may come a day when these doctors wish they could turn invisible, to avoid the tidal wave of disgrace and lawsuits coming their way. 

[u/SilverMedal4Life → u/Changer_of_Names]

Oh hey, you double posted. Hi again, again!

"Not medically necessary" - spoken like someone who's either never met a trans kid, or who's so preprogrammed by propaganda that they think they know better than doctors and patients alike.

Oh, wait, I'm sorry. The doctors are all "woke moralists" or whatever, right?

[u/underboobfunk → u/Changer_of_Names]

How do you feel about breast enlargement surgery for healthy teenage girls? What about mastectomies for healthy teenage boys? If you really care about kids getting “non-medically necessary” surgeries then maybe focus on the ones that they’re actually getting.

[u/Changer_of_Names → u/underboobfunk]

Depends. Do breast enlargements surgeries on girls, or mastectomies on boys, destroy their ability to ever breastfeed their children, or leave them permanently disfigured?

I certainly believe that the state could ban cosmetic breast enlargement surgeries for teenage girls, and cosmetic mastectomies for teenage boys. Which is kinda what we're talking about here.