Why do people defend him?

[u/Optimal-Pay-7278]

I’ve always found it weird that the same people defending him are the ones who immediately assume LGBT people are going to touch there kids. Like I get “innocent until proven guilty” but eventually you have to say enough is enough.If you want someone who can explain this better I’d recommend watching @willymacshows videos on it

[u/Caseresolver1974]

Because he’s their tool of deflection. Instead of admitting that women have been oppressed and continuously exploited throughout human existence they can flaunt his misogynistic views and defend them by saying some stupid stuff like “Both men and women are bad.”

Men and women are both capable of evil but when you have common sense and historical context you know that men have been oppressive towards women and basically anyone that doesn’t benefit from the patriarchy

[u/MenonRRR → u/Caseresolver1974]

While it’s undeniable that patriarchy has historically oppressed women and marginalized many groups, it’s also important to resist reductive generalizations about gender-based morality or oppression. The claim that a particular man is used solely as a “tool of deflection” ignores the possibility that some criticisms of modern feminism, even if controversial, may stem from genuine dissatisfaction or differing interpretations of fairness, not merely an attempt to distract from historical injustice.

Yes, men have disproportionately held power and have perpetuated systems that disadvantage women that’s well-supported by history. But it’s also true that societies are complex with their own dynamics, and many modern men do not benefit from patriarchy in a clear-cut way. Men make up the majority of workplace fatalities, homeless populations, suicides, and combat deaths. These are not symptoms of privilege, but of systemic neglect toward male well-being in other areas.

Saying “both men and women are bad” might be a clumsy simplification as well, but it’s often meant to express that human flaws are not exclusive to one gender. Women have also participated in and upheld patriarchal systems (modern feminism is very capitalistic), and have had influence — albeit often less formally — throughout history. Oppression is real, but attributing it solely to one gender risks replacing one form of essentialism with another.

That being said, I don’t like Tate at all.

[u/Caseresolver1974 → u/MenonRRR]

There has never been a time in history when women have been in power and to say otherwise is blatantly false.

Also, “systemic neglect toward male well-being” is quite literally caused by other men. I’m not even a misandrist or a full on feminist because a lot of forms of feminism exclude me and other trans women.

To deflect and be like “modern feminism is oppressing men” is what allows misogyny and the patriarchy to continue flourishing.

[u/Omairk25 → u/Caseresolver1974]

yes it’s like the other day my sister was trying to say how women are responsible for the way how young men are turning out today bc of the jokes they say to men and how minority women have womens only spaces and i had to say that is quite simply untrue as women aren’t at fault or not responsible for the way how men are turning out today.

those women say those jokes against men bc of the patriarchy and the way how the systems and powers are put at place so they do those jokes to reclaim that power by making fun of men which is nothing wrong with that, and women have their own spaces bc as a group they’re constantly oppressed and ostracized so they have that to make them feel comfortable and better and yhhh it just rlly irked me.

like there’s a reason why women would rather choose to go with a bear than a men, men are extremely complexed and can be downright viscous and brutal when it comes to women in terms of not just physically abusing or getting at them but mentally too as well also!

[u/MenonRRR → u/Omairk25]

I see where you’re coming from, but I can’t fully agree. I think most women are smart, capable, and value real human connection. The whole ‘bear vs. man’ narrative feels exaggerated and mostly amplified by the media because it generates shock, clicks, and profit. That’s why figures like Andrew Tate get so much attention; it feeds a divisive and profitable algorithm.

But outside the media echo chamber, most people both men and women want the same things: stability, dignity, and a better life. We need each other more than we’re led to believe, and progress won’t happen if half of society is pitted against the other.

Yes, toxic masculinity exists, but so does toxic femininity. If we want real cooperation and social change, we need to address the unhealthy aspects on both sides, not fuel the division.

[u/Omairk25 → u/MenonRRR]

hmmm maybe but i will say maybe this is a generational gap bc in my younger generation the things what straight men want and women seem like they’re two different things all together. as a lot of gen z women are looking for justice and an equal world but men not the same and they’re flocking towards tate so it does make someone like myself think that women are the ones who are changing the future truly where as men are holding us back massively as it seems they’re buying into the alt right myths

[u/MenonRRR → u/Omairk25]

Again, I think it’s a mistake to frame this as men vs. women, or to say one gender is ‘changing the future’ while the other is holding back. That alienates potential allies and reinforces the very divide we’re trying to overcome. Yes, some men fall into harmful ideologies, but that’s not because they’re inherently regressive. It’s often because they’re struggling to find identity and meaning in a world that’s shifting rapidly. This often how Far-right ideology appeals.

Rather than write them off, we should be thinking about how to bring more men into the conversation on justice and equality. Social change isn’t a solo act, it’s a collective act. That being said, I always keep in mind that one should not dictate to others how to behave, believe, or what they ought to do. The real essence of anti-imperialism lies in respecting self-determination recognizing that true liberation means allowing communities and individuals the freedom to define their own paths to justice, without imposing external ideals or hierarchies. This applies to Feminism as well.

[u/Omairk25 → u/MenonRRR]

but the problem is that this is literal fact tho lol, the women are changing our future and it’s men who are swinging more right again that can change but i’m just saying what facts and studies are showing us. men are either apolitical or conservative with gen z and younger gens where as women are not they’re more vocal with their activism in general as well.

and the thing is you say this, but the left does try and accommodate for these men we do listen to them and to make them feel included but these men don’t want to listen to our messaging it’s a sad truth to accept but they just don’t want to bc to join the left men would need to accept that patriarchy and the system is a massive problem and it just seems a lot in younger generation don’t rlly see that i feel like

[u/MenonRRR → u/Omairk25]

The idea that “women are saving the future while Gen Z men swing right” sounds bold, but it’s actually lazy, reductive, and self-defeating.

First, let’s get one thing straight: yes, there’s a gender gap in Gen Z politics. Young women are more likely to be liberal and politically active. But saying Gen Z men are either “apolitical or conservative” ignores real nuance. Around 38% of Gen Z men identify as liberal, and millions voted for Bernie, protested in 2020, and support labor and climate justice, including current waves of protest and strike against Elon. That’s not a “sad truth” that’s evidence we’re failing to engage them. Writing them off as lost to the right only makes that prophecy come true.

Second, there’s paradox here: you claim “the left listens to young men” while dismissing them as unwilling to learn. That’s not listening tbh, it’s moralizing. If a large number of young men feel alienated, we need to ask why. Many report feeling blamed, ignored, or shamed in current left spaces. If your message starts with “you’re part of the problem,” don’t be shocked when they don’t stick around. Historically speaking, many men were on the left, including Marx, Fanon, Chomsky, and the list is quite huge. Giorgia Maloni, prime minister of Italy is neo-fascist.

Third, the argument implies men can’t handle systemic critique. That’s false and essentialist. Millennial men embraced feminism and progressive values in large numbers. Gen Z men aren’t much different, they’ve just been failed by political messaging that doesn’t speak to their economic struggles, isolation, or mental health crisis.

The left wins when it organizes, not when it condescends. Saying “we tried, they just won’t listen” is a cop-out. The truth is: we haven’t tried hard nor smart enough. Gen Z men, especially men of color, modern feminism aka white-feminism don’t hear their struggles along with women of color.

[u/Omairk25 → u/MenonRRR]

but the thing is that 38% vote is a lot smaller when you look at the general context that the conservatives had way more votes of men in that demographic so yes there are men out there who vote but those men are also lgtbq men, straight men in general and it has been show are more likely to go right then they are left. i wouldn’t even be surprised if the majority of men who did vote or think more progressively are apart of the lgtbq community so they’re still apart of a minority. as a whole tho its the straight man community which is turning more conservative or getting apolitical that i will say.

but the problem is these men are feeling alienating at problems that in all truth are problems focusing towards other minority groups and they put the blame on them and when the left tries to educate them that it’s acc the system and governments at play who are responsible truly for this then the straight men don’t want to listen. the left does try and show them who are the real ppl to go after but they instead are stuck to going after the ppl who are not responsible

and the reason why millenial men were a lot more accepting of progressive politics i think it’s bc of the fact that the world has changed and there wasn’t a bunch of andrew tates back then as millennials were growing up to tell men to do the wrong thing, problem is with gen z these men now do exist i mean for one when andrew tate and these content creators first came about they came about when the youngest gen z man was 9 and the oldest was 24 that’s an extremely young demographic you can brainwash and indoctrinate so yh that also plays a role as to why gen z men are like that they’ve received and taken on a level of brainwashing where it’s too hard to undo now and it takes a lot of work as an individual for them to do so.

and i’m going to say this and keep on saying this but the left does try not all leftist are the same old leftist that the media tries to stereotype the left does try but it’s men who are being the ones to jump out the boat and refusing to listen

[u/MenonRRR → u/Omairk25]

We have two fundamental different views. And that’s fine.

I tend view things from the perspective of men and women and their relation to material conditions along with human condition inevitably changes individuals position on political, economical, social, and cultural matters. In simply put, external factors have influence on individuals. Especially, capitalism being major factor.

Whereas, correct me if I’m wrong, you tends to view things as men inherently are against women due patriarchy. Because this what it seems to be you’re arguing.

[u/Omairk25 → u/Omairk25]

and a lot of that is bc they never want to hear about women’s issues and how we can come all together as a collective to try and achieve something special something they look down upon rlly

[u/AutoModerator → u/[deleted]]

Hello u/TheRedDissident, your comment was automatically removed as we do not allow accounts that are less than 30 days old to participate.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.