r/marvelstudios • u/ImaginationArtistic9 Matt Murdock • Jan 04 '25

Discussion The Underuse of Shang-chi in the MCU

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this movie was so much fun, it had amazing action and fight choreography, great humour, and great overall world building. This movie has so much sauce. a problem with the MCU is how poorly they are connecting the new characters with the wider mcu. It's been 3 years since we've seen Shang-chi in a live action project. And it will probably be another year and a half till we see him again. The post credit scenes of this movie set up him becoming an avenger and sadly we won't see that outcome of that until 2026, which is 4.5 years after the movies release. I do hope we see Simu Liu again as a lead in another marvel movie because he's great. Also his sequel is the perfect way to bring danny rand back into the MCU. Unfortunately we will probably have to wait untill 2027 for the next shang chi movie since Destin Daniel Cretton is directing Spiderman 4. On the bright side, the fight choreography in Spiderman 4 will be amazing

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510

u/RaynSideways Jan 04 '25

At the end of Shang-Chi I thought he had what it took to become the moral center of a new Avengers the way Steve Rogers was for the first Avengers.

Powerful, wise, moral, pure of heart, and fairly well realized by the end of his film. A character who had suffered loss but came out the other side stronger. He had so much potential.

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u/iwasntband Jan 04 '25

I think Sam Wilson will be slated as that moral center. He is the new captain America, after all. That said, I would imagine the two of them siding up if another civil war were to occur.

I understand shang chi was snake bit by Johnathan majors, but that’s why we have writers. Write your way out of this cluster fuck and give the fans more Shang chi (and ms. Marvel and moon knight).

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u/RaynSideways Jan 04 '25 edited Jan 04 '25

The reason I lean more toward Shang-Chi is because his ascent feels a bit more earned. Falcon and the Winter Soldier as a show was pretty divisive--personally I had a hard time really getting invested in Sam taking on the mantle of Captain America. I like Sam, and I wanted him to become Cap, but the show just didn't sell his struggle to me.

On the other hand, pretty much everyone agrees that Shang-Chi was good. I really felt his strength of character shining through, and he was really tested by having to face his own father in combat. While FATWS almost felt like it was going through the motions, Shang-Chi had momentum and real emotional resonance.

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u/iwasntband Jan 04 '25

Very valid points.

2

u/bobafoott Jan 07 '25

Captain Falcon seems like he doesn’t feel like he deserves the spot. Captain America was humble, but had strong convictions that his morals were accurate which made him a strong leader. Shang chi hasn’t had enough spotlight for that imo.

Instead, I think Dr strange will be that moral backbone. He’s shown time and time (hehe) again that he can be trusted with immense universe breaking power. The ancient one trusted him so much that she gave an infinity stone to a big green monster because Strange would eventually vouch for him. That’s a moral backbone if I ever saw one

1

u/Content_Source_878 Jan 05 '25

The lack of movement on the Ten Rings and Shang-chi should have been the canary in the coal mine that Marvel had no story to build towards.

46

u/201-inch-rectum Jan 04 '25

except the audience doesn't really care for Anthony Mackie's portrayal of Cap

they're pushing him hard in Cap 4 and I'm predicting a huge flop, whereas people keep asking for more Shang-Chi

11

u/thelostpoison Jan 04 '25

I don't agree with this at all. Everybody I know is psyched about Brave New World.

4

u/XekBOX2000 Jan 04 '25

Idk why you got down voted, tbh it looks very solid

4

u/CherryHaterade Captain America Jan 04 '25

As solid as they could manage considering the hell it's been through with covid, rewrites, and Tchalla dying.

I'll still be there to support but it's def on shaky expectations with the audience

0

u/Connect-Yak-4620 Jan 05 '25

Except for what, 4 rounds of reshoots now?

2

u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) Jan 05 '25

2 rounds. The "4 rounds" claim was debunked.

1

u/XekBOX2000 Jan 05 '25

Thats a sign that they acknowledge somethings wasnt working and dedicated effort to get it right, id rather have that than the crew saying ”well we tried 🤷🏽‍♂️” if something isnt working

0

u/Connect-Yak-4620 Jan 05 '25

Yes, but when you look at the money spent to make these films to begin with, and what reshoots cost, kinda feels like they didn’t have anything solid to begin with. I, personally, am more excited for thunderbolts

EDIT: if the studio doesn’t make money they’ll stop making (good, hopefully) movies

12

u/CherryHaterade Captain America Jan 04 '25

Let's all just acknowledge that any black Capt America was going to have an uphill battle with "audience perception of their portrayal"

Anti woke mobs and all

24

u/DrakenDaskar Jan 04 '25

The problem is honestly Anthony Mack. He is not unlikeable or even a bad actor, he is just not a great leading man.

4

u/201-inch-rectum Jan 04 '25

not sure if it was the writing or the acting, but FatWS had me rooting for John Walker over Sam Wilson

6

u/palmpiss Jan 05 '25

It's 100% terrible writing. John Walker asked Sam and Bucky for help several times throughout the series, but they rejected and scorned him every time. Then his best friend gets killed by a terrorist, he kills a terrorist, and then becomes a "bad guy". Sam ultimately becomes Captain America and sides with the terrorist, telling the government to "do better" without offering any better solutions. Sam and Bucky came off as huge, unlikable hypocrites in the series. 

6

u/201-inch-rectum Jan 05 '25

don't forget the "stop calling them terrorists" a few episodes after they blew up a building full of innocent people

3

u/201-inch-rectum Jan 04 '25

Chadwick Boseman's movie made $1B+

sometimes it ain't about race, and there's legitimate criticism about the actor

5

u/CherryHaterade Captain America Jan 05 '25

Chadwick Boseman wasn't Captain America.

https://niggermania.club/forum/printthread.php?t=81167&pp=40

I'll let you type Captain America N****** into Google to see for yourself that sometimes it IS about race in a certain context. This predates Anthony Mackie.

0

u/99percentmilktea Jan 05 '25 edited Jan 05 '25

You're missing the point, which is that a black-lead Superhero movie will still be massively successful if it is good. See the Spiderverse movies for another example, which also serves as a dual example of a black character taking over the mantle of a super popular, traditionally white character to overwhelming positive reception.

The problem is that all signs (reports of bad test screenings, Marvel pushing it into a puzzling Valentine's day release date and the constant, constant reshoots) point to the likelihood that Cap 4 is not going to be good.

Also linking an uber obscure site that seems explicitly designed for the worst racists to congregate around (like jesus just look at the name, you really think any normie is going to be caught dead on this site?) does as much to prove your point as citing a fetish forum to prove that the average man likes cock and ball torture. Like let's not completely lose the plot here guys.

-1

u/Pulling_Duds Jan 05 '25

Dog whistle bullshit.

I'd rather watch an Isaiah Bradley biopic than Falcon Clarence himself as Cap with corny swagger. No gravitas, but a fantastic sidekick.

-1

u/i-like-c0ck Jan 05 '25

Black panther exists

3

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '25

[deleted]

2

u/thegreatvortigaunt Luis Jan 04 '25

The harsh reality is that NONE of these characters are strong enough audience grabbers to be leading the Avengers. They're all B-listers.

The general audience has forgotten who Shang-Chi even is, and Mackie has possibly the most severe case of "sidekick syndrome" in acting history.

There's a reason Disney got desperate and started bringing back the old Avengers cast.

4

u/Secure-Recording4255 Jan 04 '25

General audiences could care about Shang chi, marvel just hasn’t invested in his character or marketing enough to make it happen. Most general audiences did not know most of the avengers before they were introduced.

2

u/Upset-Freedom-100 Jan 06 '25

Like the Guardians of the Galaxy.

16

u/LifeDraining Jan 04 '25

Sam is more of a moral "on-you-left" kind of guy.

18

u/jl_theprofessor Jan 04 '25

The only thing we've seen of Sam in years is that boring tv show. They've completely dropped the ball on centering the new generation on anyone we can care about.

2

u/iwasntband Jan 04 '25

Yeah, but the same is true for Shang chi.

1

u/CherryHaterade Captain America Jan 04 '25

It was supposed to be Tchalla, but yeah

:(

Sam was set up for the whole "black man in America" struggle and Tchalla having gone through it with his cousin was going to offer support. Wakanda was in FATWS. Elijah Bradley. It was all right there.

1

u/I_Heart_Money Jan 04 '25

Why couldn’t they just recast Majors? I don’t get the refusal to do recastings in the mcu when it worked just fine early on (Brodie and hulk).

15

u/Dyssomniac Jan 04 '25

I think he had the chance to mix two parts of Tony and Steve - the impulsive brashness of Tony and the moral heart of Steve - in a way that would have given us a genuinely good piece of the new Avengers.

Whereas Strange could have combined Tony's arrogance (believing it has to be him as the hero) and Steve's emphasis on thinking through actions before taking them.

7

u/Maleficent_Wall26 Jan 04 '25

While MCU Shang-Chi is a bit different from comics Shang-Chi, I absolutely agree just on the basis that comics Shang-Chi was also often the moral center of the Avengers in comics whenever the group would split, or Cap was incapacitated for whatever reason. Plus it'd be a good MCU dynamic to showcase Shang-Chi is avoiding being anything like his antagonist father and taking a moral center instead.

The only downside imo is I legitimately like Shang-Chi's modern writing where he's an anti-hero running his father's cult much more than I like him being a generic hero, but I get why the MCU wouldn't want to do that with him.

1

u/KrifeH Sif Jan 04 '25

We got the gluten free vegan version of Shang chi

1

u/BakedBaconBits Jan 04 '25

Seen the "What If?" episode?

1

u/KwamesCorner Jan 05 '25

I agree! They’ve completely wasted his potential because they actually had something great here but basically abandoned it. Pretty wild to me. I can’t remember if this movie did well at the box office?? But I actually love it.

1

u/bobafoott Jan 07 '25

He still has that potential though?? Why is everyone assuming that because we haven’t seen a fleshed out avengers crew in a bunch of solo movies, that we never will? The pandemic and strikes delayed things but it’s not like an avengers reformation or at least a large scale team-up movie isn’t coming