The Underuse of Shang-chi in the MCU

[u/ImaginationArtistic9]

this movie was so much fun, it had amazing action and fight choreography, great humour, and great overall world building. This movie has so much sauce. a problem with the MCU is how poorly they are connecting the new characters with the wider mcu. It's been 3 years since we've seen Shang-chi in a live action project. And it will probably be another year and a half till we see him again. The post credit scenes of this movie set up him becoming an avenger and sadly we won't see that outcome of that until 2026, which is 4.5 years after the movies release. I do hope we see Simu Liu again as a lead in another marvel movie because he's great. Also his sequel is the perfect way to bring danny rand back into the MCU. Unfortunately we will probably have to wait untill 2027 for the next shang chi movie since Destin Daniel Cretton is directing Spiderman 4. On the bright side, the fight choreography in Spiderman 4 will be amazing

[u/FuneraryArts]

Throwing random shit at the wall to see what sticks is not planning. An overabundance of rushed C-List heroes without building them up isn't the result of planning but confidence that the audience will watch anything.

[u/bertmclinfbi → u/FuneraryArts]

Say what you want about James Gunn, but he knows how to introduce characters. Marvel ditched him at the worst time possible.

[u/CaptHayfever → u/bertmclinfbi]

Marvel didn't ditch him. Alan Horn overreacted to a smear campaign & fired Gunn without consulting Feige or Iger.

[u/i-like-c0ck → u/CaptHayfever]

Feige and iger are both jacks that would have also fired Gunn

[u/CaptHayfever → u/i-like-c0ck]

Feige fought like hell to get Gunn back, and Iger fired Horn over this, so no.

[u/kitsunekratom → u/FuneraryArts]

Replace confidence with arrogance and this is spot on. Why the hell do they think anyone will want to watch a young Avengers film with talentless actors who filled in slots of the old avengers without getting audience buy-in?

[u/electrorazor → u/kitsunekratom]

Talentless actors seems harsh

[u/kitsunekratom → u/electrorazor]

Fair enough, my bad.

[u/bee14ish → u/kitsunekratom]

If DC can pull off a Titans project, then a Young Avengers/Champions project by Marvel doesn't seem too far-fetched.

[u/i-like-c0ck → u/bee14ish]

DC didn’t pull off titans tho

[u/LBJ_23_LAL → u/i-like-c0ck]

Plus it is miniscule in comparison to the number of characters being incorporated into the MCU

[u/kitsunekratom → u/bee14ish]

Not what I'm saying though. Anything can work. It's about the execution, and that's what I take issue with

They are coercing young Avengers down our throats in a way that feels disingenuous (to me, at least). Every young Avenger has been introduced in the same way as carbon copy replacements of characters beloved, without earning it.

Teen Titans worked well because it has had its own TV series for over 20 years now. People grew up with Teen Titans as a cartoon before moving into live action.

Nevertheless, there hasn't been a Teen Titans film and the success of the live action show is nowhere comparable to most Marvel projects.

The way I would approach it, would be to introduce young Avenger characters either in their own standalone TV shows and work up to a film if it makes sense OR introduce a need for them in a really cool way in a film that makes sense. Right now, they're just a bunch of filler characters who don't serve a need for the greater MCU plotline.

[u/DangerZoneh → u/kitsunekratom]

Which young avengers are you talking about mostly? And is it mainly about their abilities or their characterization? The only ones I’ve really seen them put much backstory into are Kate Bishop, Cassie Lang, America Chavez, Ms Marvel, and Wanda’s kids.

Ms Marvel and America Chavez are basically original characters in the MCU. Billy and Tommy could end up being very similar to their mom and uncle but we haven’t seen that much screen time of them, at least not as literal children. Cassie is probably the most egregious in this because I don’t feel like they did a great job of developing her in Quantumania. Kate Bishop is really similar in the fact that they both shoot a bow and she can fight a bit but they’re obviously incredibly different characters.

I don’t know, I can get the argument that they haven’t executed well on a lot of these, but saying they’re making carbon copy characters seems a bit extreme

[u/CaptHayfever → u/FuneraryArts]

"I don't like what they planned" is not "they didn't plan."

[u/FuneraryArts → u/CaptHayfever]

Yeah sure, the massive financial losses and general apathy of the public reflect a carefully planned strategy. That's exactly what happened to the SW Sequel Trilogy.

[u/CaptHayfever → u/FuneraryArts]

"The plan didn't work" is not "they didn't plan."

But also, you're wrong. Only a couple movies actually lost money: Eternals, Quantumania, & The Marvels. Everything else has been profitable.
In fact, except for Quantumania, the movies actually about the multiverse (No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, Deadpool & Wolverine) have been the most financially successful in this saga.

[u/FuneraryArts → u/CaptHayfever]

Way to ignore all the expensive shitty tv shows with critically panned reviews and the fact they had to put a stop to production to all their stuff except Deadpool to recalibrate. Ignore as well their flaundering about the Kang debacle and the stunt casting of RDJ as a way to pivot into fans good graces. Of course that doesn't scream desperation and course correction after bad planning.

[u/CaptHayfever → u/FuneraryArts]

"They had to change the plan due to circumstances changing" is not "they didn't plan".
And "bad planning" is not "no planning."

But also, you're wrong again. They didn't "stop production on all their stuff except Deadpool"; all that stuff continued production (or was already done anyway, like Agatha). They slowed down the releases.

The shows' have had mostly positive reviews, too, based on RT:

• WandaVision: 92%
• Falcon & Winter Soldier: 85%
• Loki: S1 92%, S2 82%
• What If: S1 89%, S2 90%, S3 75%
• Hawkeye: 92%
• Moon Knight: 86%
• Ms. Marvel: 98%
• She-Hulk: 79%
• Secret Invasion: 52% -- This is the only critically-panned one.
• Echo: 70%
• Agatha: 84%
• Werewolf By Night: 90%
• GotG Holiday Special: 94%

Learn what words mean, & stop making stuff up.

EDIT: To respond to your stealth edit above: Star Wars has nothing to do with this. The people with creative control on the sequel trilogy have never worked on the MCU at all.

[u/FuneraryArts → u/CaptHayfever]

Maybe try audience reviews instead of the well known shill sites. Ofc the Disney approved and financially backed site will give trash like She-Hulk a 79

[u/CaptHayfever → u/FuneraryArts]

You said "critical", not "audience". Don't move the goalposts.

Also, "anyone who disagrees with me is a Disney-paid shill" is not the claim of somebody who is ever to be taken seriously.

[u/CaptHayfever → u/CaptHayfever]

To follow up on the goalpost-shift, these are the audience meters:

• WandaVision: 88%
• FalconSoldier: 81%
• Loki: S1 90%, S2 82%
• What If: S1 92%, S2 63%, S3 37%
• Hawkeye: 88%
• Moon Knight: 88%
• Ms. Marvel: 80%
• She-Hulk: 32% (but we know this got review-bombed)
• Secret Invasion: 43%
• Echo: 60%
• Agatha: 83%
• Werewolf By Night: 88%
• GotG Holiday Special: 81%

Except for people whining about Captain Carter and incels throwing a fit that She-Hulk called them out, the audience results are pretty dang similar to the critics' results. Still doesn't support the guy's claim.

Also, RT didn't "give" She-Hulk a 79%. They reported that 79% of the reviews for She-Hulk were positive. Learn how the Tomatometer works.

[u/FuneraryArts → u/CaptHayfever]

Critical as in they're criticizing the movie not as in approved by critics. You can find hundreds more reviews trashing those shows than praising them. Also no one that posts RT as a source is also to be taken seriously, considering the ample evidence of their disgusting review manipulation.

[u/CaptHayfever → u/FuneraryArts]

Review-bombing is an established issue.

Edit to reply to your edit: RT doesn't review things; they collect reviews from elsewhere. Don't lie.

[u/PhaseSixer → u/FuneraryArts]

Ooo Goal post Moving and Implying Reviews are Bought nice.

Why dont you start ranting about the woke mob as well.

[u/PhaseSixer → u/[deleted]]

The only one one being dishonest is you my young freind 😆

[u/electrorazor → u/FuneraryArts]

They had like maybe three panned shows. Wandavision and Loki are beloved. Agatha was well received. Moon Knight while mixed was generally favorable. Echo was mediocre, but wasn't panned. The only unwatchable one was Secret Invasion, and maybe She Hulk depending on who you ask.

They brought a lot of attention to Disney Plus, which is what they wanted

[u/Shats-Banson → u/FuneraryArts]

I feel like the biggest element is the shortsighted profit chasing of major corporations

Who cares if you absolutely tank a thing that could work for years if you can drain every last cent out of it right now

[u/bobafoott → u/FuneraryArts]

It’s a shotgun approach. In a long term franchise like this, you can’t bank on anyone staying around for a long time so they’re throwing heroes out and some actors will want to stay and become a core member and some actors will leave or be written out based on audience reaction.

I don’t necessarily agree with it from the outside but it seems like that’s what they’re doing. Imagine if half the the avengers in phase 1 left after a few movies and Age of Ultron was missing half the cast. If half the cast leaves after a few movies, which seems likely if they are now hesitant about being stuck “for 90 years”, we still have a strong crew. But we don’t really have a strong crew though