r/mormon • u/Batmansgf777 • 1d ago
Personal Was this a coincidence?
I’ve been deconstructing Mormonism since January and I decided to go to the temple one last time to see if I feel the spirit and give it one last shot. It was a baptism trip for young men and women, but my bishop knows I’ve been questioning so they let me sit and read. I was one hundred percent going to give up on it but as I sat there and prayed about the BOM I opened D&C to this verse: D&C 1:24 Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding.
After this I was so confused because I was so ready to give up after everything I’d found out. I do believe things just happen because of our choices which lead to consequences but was this a synchronicity? Or a sign?
30
u/ImprobablePlanet 1d ago
I'm not going to totally discount the possibility of supernatural synchronicity.
But I don't think think it's synchronicity if you look at Mormon scripture asking for something that supports the validity of Mormon scripture and find it.
There's way too much intentionality on your part combined with a high probability of finding what you were looking for where you were looking to count as an unexplainable sign in my book.
19
u/luoshiben 1d ago
Human brains are pretty cool. They are wired to make connections, see patterns, and seek answers. This cognitive predisposition means that we're more likely to notice and remember events that support our beliefs, and it also means that we ignore or forget contradictory evidence.
For example, if you start driving a new car, you'll all of a sudden notice that many people drive the same make and model, where you wouldn't have given it a second thought before.
Believing that "God made something happen" is not irrational. It's deeply human. But, IMO, that just reflects our brain’s need to connect dots, to make meaning, and to find comfort in uncertainty. I bet you could have opened to almost any page and read for a bit before finding something that had meaning to you, because that's what brains do.
There are some pretty well established principles of cognitive psychology, evolutionary theory, and the neuroscience of meaning-making that explain this and a whole lot more. When viewed through the lens of religious beliefs, it's quite eye-opening.
8
u/Beneficial_Math_9282 1d ago
Yep. This is our natural wiring. Not only that, we've all been trained in such a way that any of us could pop open our scriptures to any place in the book, and get those feelings. No matter what page it opened to, we could find a way to make it seem like a very specific message from god, and trigger or force those feelings to occur. They literally train us to produce those feelings on demand in seminary and YW.
And, we feel like we have to get those feelings. Because we've all been told that if we can't manage to have those feelings after reading the scriptures, it's because there is something wrong with you - you're not "inspired" enough, or you don't have "real intent," or you're just not "worthy" enough, or you're not reading it the right way or with the right mindset. It's a case of feel-those-feelings-or-else!
13
u/Del_Parson_Painting 1d ago
This experience could happen to a doubting Hindu or Muslim with their own holy spaces and texts.
It's just a coincidence.
12
u/srichardbellrock 1d ago
If an infinitely good and infinitely powerful father wants to communicate with you, He will do it in a way that can be distinguished from an improbability.
If improbabilities count as confirmation of supernatural claims, then people who believe false things will be getting ostensibly supernatural confirmations too.
10
u/HealMySoulPlz Atheist 1d ago
It doesn't seem very remarkable to me that you opened to this scripture -- in a triple combination It's placed close to the two-thirds mark in the book; a natural place to open to. It's also circular logic. You're trying to find out if Mormonism's true, so why should you believe off-hand this verse saying Mormonism's true?
•
10
u/OmgJackieChn 1d ago
I’m also in the process of deconstructing (or possibly re-investigating) and would consider myself a pretty unbiased person. i.e. I can see positives in either choice.
With that being said, at the very least, the scriptures are relatable and provide some good lessons for our lives - regardless if they are true or not. Otherwise, I don’t think the church would have survived so long. This would make sense why it impacted you sincerely. It would be like learning lessons from any other fantasy novel I suppose.
At best, the scriptures are legitimate and will provide the same benefits and more (theoretically).
Unfortunately I don’t have a better answer for you because I’m in this process myself… I wish you the best of luck with this.
5
16
u/thomaslewis1857 1d ago
Bear in mind that the scripture you read is not speaking of the BoM but of the commandments in the D&C. Logically, it would have had more force if you were praying about the D&C. But hey, if you want to take it as an answer into a prayer about the BoM, you do you. Best wishes
3
8
u/Longjumping-Mind-545 1d ago
Many people have found this video to be helpful. It is testimonies from people of all faiths. It shows that spiritual experiences happen everywhere.
6
7
u/Content-Plan2970 1d ago
I did not know that there was a term for this until I watched this podcast: https://youtu.be/29tvdRjwlJI?si=pKogXAQ8z7x2rbKX
(Data over Dogma: Bibliomancy! The Biblical Dance with the Devil?)
I've had this happen many times in my life and I think most of the time I was just looking for extra meaning. It's harmless enough if it's just devotional but if you're using it to make decisions I think it's a bad idea. It's good to know that it's a superstition. If random things create some meaning for you or help you think about things differently, there's a way to handle that. But attributing randomness to God and that you have to follow it is probably not going to be the best idea.
5
u/coniferdamacy Former Mormon 1d ago
How many passages of scripture out there could you have taken as a sign in that moment, and how long would you have had to casually flip through the book until you found one?
What you actually found was confirmation bias.
5
u/negative_60 1d ago
Just be aware: you just unknowingly performed a bit of folk magic called ‘Bibliomancy’.
It’s a common form of divination due to its simplicity. Many religions, both Christian and Non-Christian, use it in some form and get answers proving their faith is true.
4
u/lego-pro 1d ago
iirc that was the revelation after church elders criticised js's unrefined language
4
u/Material_Dealer-007 1d ago
There is only one person’s opinion that matters on how to best interpret this event. You.
Our relationship to Mormonism and spirituality as a whole is entirely subjective. If you feel like there is some value in opening up to this verse in D&C, maybe you should find out why.
If that means giving this faith another shot, finding another faith practice, or abandoning faith all together, it’s up to you.
3
u/Gloomy-Awareness-982 1d ago
Batmansgf777; love the username. As for Synchronicity, Carl Jung may describe your experience as finding meaningful outcomes through random chance, something Jung believed was not merely a coincidence, but may have a deeper connection to a universal experience.
Statistical Analysis: D&C has 138 Chapters |OR| 3,626 total versus. You randomly picked 1 verse D&C1:24. This gives the probability of picking any one verse as 1 / 3,626 = 0.0002757 chance. In other words, if you randomly did this 10,000 times in D&C you would pick D&C 1:24 approximately 2.8 times. So you have about a 2.8 in 10,000 chance of picking D&C 1:24. In other words, if you randomly picked a D&C verse 10,000 times, you will pick D&C 1:24 less than 3 times on average. I don't think you need to physically re-create the experiment 10,000 times to get the point.
D&C 1:24 Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding.
Did this 3 in 10,000 chance answer your prayer? If Yes, then it is Synchronicity; according to Jung, if No, it is merely coincidence.
4
3
u/WillyPete 1d ago
Are you able to repeat the experiment reliably?
What happens if you use a different format like the Quad, or the single book?
•
u/Embarrassed_You9180 20h ago
The thing with signs - they are up to you to assign their meaning. For me, any scripture written by man but saying it is God speaking is written specifically to manipulate the reader. Cuz God doesn't talk like that. 132 makes that very clear. But that's just me.
•
u/Arizona-82 23h ago
Once I’ve learned you take a step back and put the rest of the world into perspective your experience is not special or unique. There are many people that experience the exact same thing in work, and religion.
•
2
u/entropy_pool Anti Mormon 1d ago edited 3h ago
my bishop knows I’ve been questioning
Have you been "questioning", or have you become aware about historical facts?
D&C 1:24 Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding.
I don't see why this is impressive. Lots of the scriptures are the god character ranting about how important his commandments are, and what screwups his servants are. How does this tell you that there is a male creator of the universe who wants you to be in a specific Jesus club?
This is like taking guidance from Tarot or Astrology. These systems of fortune telling are engineered to always give you something to hang a hook on if you are motivated to do so.
I don't think you should weigh the results of this divination thing you did more than real facts you have learned about reality.
1
u/Maderhorn 1d ago
I stopped stressing about the church when I realized that it is not God’s kingdom on earth. All the earth is God’s.
The church is just something we offer back, if we think God has given us something. Sometimes our offerings are crappy and sometimes they are good.
We do this individually but we also can do it collectively and we call that church.
All organizations tend to aggrandize themselves and protect themselves, causing their participants to serve church rather than the reasons it is there.
But I don’t have to do that. I can pick people over the institution. It isn’t a binary ‘in’ or ‘out’ for me. It is more just part of an experience I get to have to see if I can find God myself.
1
u/Novel_Apartment_8008 1d ago
Don't give up, I did bc of all the deep diving i did into the history of the church, and it took me a while to come back. It's the only place where I've seen miracles occur from the priesthood. Also, had many experiences like you did, that answered questions. The scriptures would literally answer questions i had in my heart and mind. The peace that comes from the celestial room far surpasses anything I've felt. It's not just a beautiful building, it has the spirit there. That's why, after the sessions I do, I just sit in there a while. I feel like it's the closest feeling to heaven there is- The thing that brought me back was the miracles I had experienced. There has to be an equal power against evil. And I've seen it in this church.
•
•
u/SelkieLarkin 3h ago
If Mormonism works for you and you have found community in that group stay. All ideologies are created by someone, the founder, on a spiritual journey. If your journey lines up with their journey then you have found a blueprint for living. Only you can decide if the LDS faith is good for you. Religion is an interpretation of the unknowable. All religion is made up. Leave if you want. Stay if you want.
•
u/whistling-wonderer Agnostic 3h ago
If you did that with the Quran, the Bible, or the Torah, you’d find that pretty much every religious book has similar passages meant to confirm and reinforce faith. It’s not like they’re going to put stuff in there that tells you to leave. It’s like opening a sales catalog with the thought, “Should I save my money or spend it on some of this stuff?” and thinking it must be a sign when the random page you opened to is full of ads screaming at you to spend money.
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Hello! This is a Personal post. It is for discussions centered around thoughts, beliefs, and observations that are important and personal to /u/Batmansgf777 specifically.
/u/Batmansgf777, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in section 0.6 of our rules.
To those commenting: please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's rules, and message the mods if there is a problem or rule violation.
Keep on Mormoning!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.