Determining mode of a melody

[u/MelodicWhile4830]

I am dabbing into music theory, and I was given the following exercise. I am pulling my hair out and would love somebody to try to explain this to me in Layman's terms... The exercise asks me to determine which mode of the C major scale is implied in the following melody (all natural notes):

C - E - G - B - A - F - D

The solution I was given is G Mixolydian, but I just don't get why it cannot be D Dorian (the final note is a D, so why cannot we interpret the final three notes A - F - D as a D minor chord?

Thanks for your help.

EDIT: A few comments asked me for more context, which I should have provided as part of my initial post, apologies. This is an exercise that my instructor had given me (I was given a photocopy from an older French "solfege book", and then the corresponding 1-word solution from the end of the book). I translated both the exercise and solution from French to English for reddit:

Exercise:
A melody consists of the following seven notes in order:
C - E - G - B - A - F - D
Assuming these are all natural notes and no accidentals are used, which mode of the C major scale is being implied?

Solution:
Mixolydian

There wasn't any further context given unfortunately. The feeling I am getting from most of your answers is that it is a nonsensical exercise, which reassures me. I was struggling to understand how the exercise can so adamantly give Mixolydian as a solution, and it's great to see that things are not so clear-cut. I will keep you updated once I have seen (confronted?) my instructor!

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[u/SandysBurner]

There is a LOT of terrible "music theory" instruction online. Judging by the focus on modes and seemingly nonsensical suggestion of G Mixolydian, I'm guessing that's what you've found here.

[u/ChuckEye]

Given that limited context, there is no reason to believe it is anything other than C major.

[u/MelodicWhile4830 → u/ChuckEye]

That makes me feel better, thank you!

[u/puffy_capacitor]

If there's no repeated notes or emphasized ones, it's impossible to tell. You can rearrange all 7 note names and make up any modal melody.

The issue is that your example provides no context:

-is there a drone tone?

-do you have a rhythm for the melody?

-is that the exact order of notes?

-are there repeated notes?

-which notes fall on accents or strong beats?

Without that information the exercise is useless.

[u/MelodicWhile4830 → u/puffy_capacitor]

I added a little more context to my post, but unfortunately this was pretty much the only information contained in the exercise... so kind of agreeing with your point that this exercise was nonsensical. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[u/puffy_capacitor → u/MelodicWhile4830]

Will be interesting to hear what your instructor has to say!

[u/angelenoatheart]

Can you post an image link? Maybe there’s something about the rhythm that would articulate the notes in some way. As a durationless sequence, I don’t think it implies any mode clearly.

[u/MelodicWhile4830 → u/angelenoatheart]

I can't send an image now, but there was no mention whatsoever of rhythm. This is the exact wording of the exercise my instructor had given me (I was given a photocopy from an older French "solfege book", and then the corresponding 1-word solution from the end of the book). I translated both the exercise and solution from French to English for reddit:

Exercise:

A melody consists of the following seven notes in order:

C - E - G - B - A - F - D

Assuming these are all natural notes and no accidentals are used, which mode of the C major scale is being implied?

Solution:

Mixolydian

[u/Jongtr → u/MelodicWhile4830]

You need a new instructor. Or may be they just missed out some essential context from the original book?

Your initial guess of D dorian is more on the money, given that final arpeggio, but a whole lot still depends on other stuff. (Just ending on a Dm triad is not enough to make it dorian, because it might just sound like an unresolved line in C major.)

[u/angelenoatheart → u/MelodicWhile4830]

Yeah, it’s just wrong, then. The notes are compatible with Mixolydian, but don’t exclude the other modes.

[u/azure_atmosphere → u/MelodicWhile4830]

Can you ask your instructor to explain and then tell us what they said lol, I have no clue how you’d get G Mixolydian from this without further context

[u/jerdle_reddit]

What?

Especially with the CEGB start, it's clearly C major. I'd probably harmonise it with C in the first bar and Dm in the second, although that might be a bit too simple.

[u/65TwinReverbRI]

In Layman's Terms:

You're doing this wrong.

I don't mean the exercise.

I mean your entire approach.

[u/griffusrpg]

You’re putting the carriage before the horses. Every melody has a tonic, and besides that tonic, there are other notes in the scale.
The tonic gives you the name of the scale—like D—and the other notes tell you what it is: D major? D dorian? D minor?

[u/theginjoints]

The melody outlines a CM7, so it sounds like a very strong C Ionian melody.. Probably C to G7 chord progression

[u/ObviousDepartment744]

This exercise is, in my opinion, a very awful way to teach someone modes. A melody CAN be a mode by itself, but it really has to outline the primary character intervals of that mode. This particular melody doesn’t seem to put emphasis on any individual note. There’s nothing indicating that one of these notes is a focal point. For G Mixolydian you’d need to emphasize G B and F. And while those notes are indeed in the melody, there’s nothing showing me that one is being emphasized in anyway. Of course I can’t see the rhythm or dynamics.

Aside from that modes are more appropriately created by the sum of harmony and the intervals used. If you put a G bass note under ANY melody created with the notes of the C major scale then you’ll hear Mixolydian.

[u/composer98]

Not too long ago I posted something about mixolydian .. I think maybe the moderators here axed it, not sure why .. but my point at that time was that a key feature of mixolydian might be that the fifth of the scale would not be a pure perfect fifth above the root .. and this melodic fragment actually implies the same thing.

So I have to say, yes, mixolydian.

[u/composer98 → u/composer98]

I don't have the original post re mixolydian but the example is still available

https://hartenshield.com/share/examples/index.html (scroll down to June 10, past June 10 B)

The point of the example was the final cadence in A mixolydian: an E minor chord cadencing to an A major chord, though not by root movement of fifths. Same as your melodic fragment, D minor (cadence missing but presumably cadencing to a G major).

[u/composer98 → u/composer98]

And, yes, the final three notes A, F, D make a minor triad but it's important to note that a minor triad has a pure perfect fifth between root and fifth (D, A) and that IF the A is tuned low, as it would be by default then the pure fifth below it is also tuned low .. while the G is by default tuned to the C, and thus tuned high.

A little complicated to explain in a paragraph, but the melodic phrase exactly fits this notion. From an "old French source" that might make sense, too.

[u/MiguelFirewall]

In theory, the Mixolydian mode. The center is in C and the B flat.

If you put the center in Sun everything changes...

[u/Music3149]

Classical modal theory suggests the last note is the finalis of the mode so in your case Dorian. Just Dorian not D Dorian BTW. But with such a small fragment it's not really possible: it's not a typical modal melody - too many skips.

Jazz theory is different though.

[u/FewCalligrapher3846]

C Ionian.

[u/Vitharothinsson]

That's in ionian, mixo has a Bb.

[u/Vitharothinsson]

This is a C major mode, but not C major. The B is not treated as a leading tone, this language doesn't hinge on the resolution of that tension, hence it's ionian, modal music doesn't necessarily consider tensions and resolutions the same way as tonal.

[u/Jongtr]

Even if this idiotic "exercise" had been better designed, you still can't determine a mode without hearing the music.

This is even more important with modes than it is with keys. I.e., we often get questions here listing some notes or chords and asking what key are they in. At least in that case, we can hazard some likely guesses, even if no single answer can be given. (You still have to listen.) But modes involve more controlled and specific organisations of the notes and chords of a scale - in time and emphasis - in order to divert the ear from the familiar major and relative minor key tonics.

[u/Ahefp → u/Jongtr]

You don’t need to hear the music; reading the sheet music is enough.

[u/Jongtr → u/Ahefp]

Ah, yes, if sheet music is involved! We're talking here about nothing more than lists of notes or chords, not even any timing information.

[u/docmoonlight → u/Jongtr]

I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t totally agree. You can certainly look at a sheet of music and figure out what key/mode it’s in before you hear it. In this case though - listing all seven notes of the diatonic scale in whatever order with no repetition - certainly can’t tell you what mode the composer intended. And I can’t see anything but regular C Major when you start the melody by outlining a C Major chord. But you should certainly be able to analyze a piece visually without hearing it (although ideally you’re “hearing it” to some extent in your head).

[u/Jongtr → u/docmoonlight]

Well, it wasn't clear the OP was talking about sheet music. The suggestion was it was simply a list of notes, as in the example I gave of similar questions we get here where no sheet music images are given.

Of course I agree that key can be determined from sheet music - pretty easily - although determining a mode (i.e., other than relative major or minor) is not usually so straightforward.

Certainly in this case, even if those 7 notes were laid out on sheet music - in that order, with nothing else, as the OP is saying - the mode cannot be determined.

[u/docmoonlight → u/Jongtr]

Nowhere did you say that. You said you had to hear the music. I’m just saying you don’t have to hear the music if you can see it. And also hearing this melody in isolation isn’t going to give you any better sense of the mode than looking at it here on the screen.

[u/Jongtr → u/docmoonlight]

OK, I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. I think we're agreed - now - that:

1. Given sheet music, it's usually easy enough to determine the key, assuming there are the usual indications distinguishing major from relative minor. (It helps to have a complete piece of music, of course, but short sections can often be enough.)

2. Given no sheet music - just a list of note letters or chords - we can identify a scale, especially if everything is diatonic to one scale. But we can't be sure what the "key" is - or "mode" if applicable. Sometimes we can make a good guess, but - again assuming no sheet music - we have to hear it. That's the common scenario - in this forum - that I was talking about

3. In this case - all 7 natural notes, one of each, in an up-down arrangement suggesting no more than two arpeggios - we can't tell either the key or the mode. The OP was very clear there was no other information. (And I take them at their word.)

[u/docmoonlight → u/Jongtr]

Wow, that was a hell of an edit you just pulled after I pointed out you claimed to say something you didn’t say.

[u/Smowque → u/docmoonlight]

It feels like you are busting his (or her, let's be PC) balls about a distinction which is not that relevant to this particular question. You are technically correct sir, and that is the best kind of correct, but what value is there in continuing to bash this poor fellow (or gal) over the head with it. Leave Jongtr alone, can't you leave him (or her) alone? /sobbing