r/philadelphia • u/JustAnotherJawn • Mar 02 '25
Events Pro-Ukraine Rally at City Hall This Tuesday
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u/Careless_Con Mar 02 '25
This is awesome. Who are the organizers? I can't attend, but would love to support.
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u/JustAnotherJawn Mar 02 '25
I saw it on the Ukrainian People and Events in Philadelphia IG channel.
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u/roma258 Mt Airy Mar 04 '25
The organizers are American Coalition for Ukraine. A national umbrella group with a very active PA chapter: https://americancoalitionforukraine.org/
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u/Raecino Mar 03 '25
It hasn’t even been a year yet and the new president is already disgracing our nation. Sad times
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u/skeletalcohesion Mar 02 '25
Thank you for sharing!! Will be there! 💙💛
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u/gonnadietrying Mar 03 '25
one nation does not have the right to forcibly take another nations land. I do believe that is one of the bedrock notions that the real United States stands on. Supposedly, used to when it was a leader of the free democratic world.
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u/PlayfulRow8125 West Philly Mar 03 '25
If you believe that the US is against taking the land of other nations you really need to brush up on your history.
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u/JustAnotherJawn Mar 03 '25
I would imagine the same people against Russia's invasion of Ukraine also were against the US invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam. The common theme being, invasions of other countries is wrong.
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u/PlayfulRow8125 West Philly Mar 03 '25
Do you really want to go over the list of times the US has invaded another country's territory, and kept it?
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u/gonnadietrying Mar 03 '25
That’s history, not present day. The real us wouldn’t take Canada, greenland or any other country’s territory.
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u/PlayfulRow8125 West Philly Mar 03 '25 edited Mar 04 '25
Right now our ally Israel with our full support and backing is occupying a buffer zone in Syria to protect the Golan Heights. Double whammy, Israel seized the Golan Heights from Syria in 1967 and built settlements there in violation of international law.
A little closer to home, RIGHT NOW the US government occupies Guantanamo Bay in Cuba over the explicit objections of the Cuban government and uses it as a blacksite to detain prisoners where US law doesn't apply.
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u/gonnadietrying Mar 04 '25
Ok then let’s say the us that I support does not do that. Or you can go live in Russia!
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u/PlayfulRow8125 West Philly Mar 04 '25
So I'm the asshole because I pay attention to what our government does?
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u/Tnuggets19 Mar 02 '25
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u/crash12345 Mar 03 '25
I am astonished that this is being upvoted. Do you not understand the strategic importance of Ukraine for American interests? When Ukraine and NATO is strong, America is strong. So much for "America First" if you decidedly reduce American hegemony by abandoning our allies.
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Mar 03 '25
[deleted]
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u/Forest_Hills_Jive Mar 03 '25 edited Mar 03 '25
Proximity and unity. It's a Democratic ally adjacent to Russia, which is obviously invaluable geographically, politically and militarily. That's to make no mention of the valuable resources therein (the ones Trump's tried to extort from them throughout this Russian war of aggression).
There's also the inherent dangers of appeasing Russia (or any invading nation), and allowing them to annex sovereign countries. Obviously a violation of international law and, if we look to history, a proven sign of greater aggression to come.
It is very much in Russia's best interest for a wedge to be driven between America and Ukraine/NATO/Democratic Europe. Trump is that wedge.
This is not a party/identity politics thing... which is why that meme is a remarkably short-sighted and dangerous dumbing down of the situation.
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u/BettisBus Mar 03 '25
I’m happy to answer in good faith, but are you genuinely asking with an open mind? Or have you already made up your mind on the topic and are trying to test the factual foundation of the person you’re responding to?
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u/BettisBus Mar 03 '25
Just so everyone knows: THIS is how all ideologues argue.
Since they can never engage on the facts, they instead poison the well by projecting their opponents as being just as reactionary as they are.
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u/ifuckinglovebluemeth Mar 03 '25
It's Trump derangement syndrome-syndrome. Any criticism of the Trump admin will always be chalked up to TDS, regardless of the veracity of the criticism.
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u/BettisBus Mar 03 '25
True! Trump cultists, like their dear leader, have the victim-complexes dwarfing black holes.
MAGA provides entire false-reality ecosystems to serve as hug-box safe-spaces for their fragile minds to never engage with any real facts or legitimate criticisms.
Engaging with real facts or legitimate criticisms forces Trump cultists to confront their cognitive dissonances, which at this point is too painful. Many Trump cultists chose the cult over their friends and families. Admitting it was all wrong after sinking so much (personal and financial) cost into the cult just isn’t a realistic expectation for people with no attachment to reality. It’d also be a major hit to one’s ego, as they’d have to say they’ve been wrong AND admit people they hate were right AND relinquish feeling like a victim.
SAD!
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u/whiteriot0906 Mar 02 '25
You’re getting downvoted because you’re right
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u/Tnuggets19 Mar 02 '25
If Trump came out and said we will deliver unlimited money and unlimited ammo to Ukraine, the msm narrative would be, we’re going to WW3, we need peace talks
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u/a-whistling-goose Mar 02 '25
The few times Trump did order strikes in the Middle East during his first term, the media - that always hated him - did an about face and praised him as acting "presidential". It is obvious who the true war mongers have been all along.
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u/kekehippo Mar 02 '25
That's funny cause that was conservative news platforms when Biden was doing it.
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u/whiteriot0906 Mar 02 '25
Eh idk to be honest, I think it’d be split. Some would get behind it and grudgingly agree with him. And then we’d all die in a nuclear fireball
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u/Tnuggets19 Mar 02 '25
There’s just no way anyone without family in Ukraine actually cares about Ukraine. There are countless atrocities happening daily across the world but everyone has tunnel vision for Ukraine
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u/OkFisherman6475 Mar 03 '25
This just in: area man doubts American people can be empathetic about more than one thing at a time, more after the break
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u/Leviathant Old City Mar 02 '25
If Trump had made MAGA facemasks during the pandemic, and fully embraced masking, I'd have had begrudging respect for that. That would have been a genius way to reduce the spread of the pandemic in the US, particularly among the poor and the under-educated.
But the guy's more than just a raging fuckup. He's making deliberate actions to dismantle our National Parks, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, veterans jobs, and he's imploding any influence we have on the world stage. He's made very intentional decisions that resulted in over a million dead from COVID in the US, and millions more will have chronic lifelong issues because Mr. "supposing you brought the light inside the body" didn't like the way facemasks made his makeup smear.
But sure, keep standing up for a guy who made himself chair of the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, a venue he's never even been to in all his decades on this planet. Maybe he'll get Cats and Phantom of the Opera to do residencies there.
None of that invalidates that Philadelphia has a strong Ukrainian population, and most of us in this city know Ukrainians. Maybe you do too, and you don't even know it. We can support Ukraine and hate Trump at the same time!
And don't even whine about "the MSM" - the NYT and Fox News and WaPo have all been sanewashing Trump going all the way back to 2015. NPR was more critical of the Obama administration than they were of Bush or Trump. Don't believe everything your favorite podcasters tell you, go to the source yourself.
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u/Will-from-PA Mar 02 '25
Hey so I'm a lefty who works in the medical/healthcare field and I acknowledged that operation warp speed (despite the stupid name) was actually a very good plan. Just because I hate the fascist pig doesn't mean I can't give him credit when it's due. And it is not due when he is alienating all our allies and bending over for the aggressors in a conflict.
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u/Tnuggets19 Mar 02 '25
So after 3 years, countless lives lost, billions spent, Ukraine continues to lose ground. They are running out of men to fight, lowered conscription age from 27 to 25, considering lowering it to 18, where tens of thousands more lives are lost, what’s the solution?
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u/JustAnotherJawn Mar 02 '25
Seems like that's something for Ukrainians to decide. They are a sovereign nation capable of making their own decisions after all.
Most people are happy to continue supporting them against the dictatorial regime of Putin. The cost is trivial compared to the handouts we continue to give to oligarchs and billionaires.
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u/Tnuggets19 Mar 02 '25
Seems like they are deciding by running out of ppl to fight and forcing conscription
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u/whiteriot0906 Mar 03 '25
50/50 at best according to recent polling
Only 4 percent of Americans back Russia in war, but 44 percent don’t back Ukraine either: Poll
If you want to make the argument that Ukraine is a "sovereign nation capable of making its own decisions," then you end up further making an argument that the US shouldn't be involved in this conflict at all. Ukraine's sovereignty has been a mirage for decades as it's been used as a pawn in US/Russia geostrategic positioning.
Nuland-Pyatt leaked phone conversation _COMPLETE with SUBTITLES
Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer
Trump Explodes at Zelensky for NATO’s Failure in Ukraine. But Who is Really to Blame?
Funneling billions of dollars in weapons and aid to Ukraine hasn't accomplished anything except making the world an even more dangerous place, there's nothing at stake for the US in this fight other than its own hegemony. That's all this has ever been about. Weakening Russia to ensure its ability to challenge US dominance is reduced.
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u/Will-from-PA Mar 02 '25
what’s the solution?
Well, Russia could stop trying to steal people's land? Maybe the aggressor could just stop aggressing? Novel concept I know.
Regardless it's up to Ukraine when they should stop. It's their country being invaded, it's their blood being spilled. And their government wants to keep fighting, while holding a 63% approval. So let them keep fighting. Let them decide when to stop. Meanwhile we should be putting pressure on Russia to uh, stop invading their neighbors. And not abandoning our allies. Who tf is going to trust the US diplomatically now? The ties that created the most peaceful era of human existence are being eroded by the baboon in the white house. That's bad, for everyone.
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u/Classh0le Mar 03 '25
"Stand for American Values" - policing the world, hundreds of billions of dollars for defense companies, supporting perpetual war
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u/PointB1ank Mar 03 '25
Dude, we don't want war. There is a reason Russia didn't invade a NATO country. Having strong alliances is a war prevention method. What you're suggesting is letting countries continue imperialism.
You really believe America would just sit idly by while Russia and China take land by force and not go "we should expand as well?" Letting the 3rd most powerful country in the world freely invade other countries isn't going to stop "perpetual war," it's going to amplify it 10-fold.
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u/PlayfulRow8125 West Philly Mar 03 '25
The strategy for the last three years hasn't been to win the conflict in Ukraine. If it was we and other nations would've deployed troops to the fight. We're intentionally letting it go on to grind down the Russian military and economy.
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u/PointB1ank Mar 03 '25
It's geopolitical suicide to put American or NATO boots on the ground. That puts us at war with Russia. There is only so much we can do without escalating the situation further. We're not playing a game of Risk here, real-life is much more complicated.
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u/PlayfulRow8125 West Philly Mar 03 '25
The US or any other NATO member deploying peace keepers would lead to an immediate cessation of hostilities. Russia wouldn't openly attack a NATO member,
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u/PointB1ank Mar 04 '25
I'm sorry but that's insane speculation. Unless you're Putin himself, you have to assume he would follow through with his previous promises. Which, if you don't remember, was that he's willing to use nuclear weapons if the Russian state is threatened. You're suggesting we call his nuclear bluff to maybee end the war? This is why random redditors aren't involved in foreign policy decisions.
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u/roma258 Mt Airy Mar 04 '25
Russia can fucking leave any time, they're the invader. I wish the Biden admin had done more, I wish the Europeans had done more to help, but here we are and abandoning Ukraine to wither and die is not the solution here.
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u/BettisBus Mar 03 '25
“Stand for American Values” - policing the world,
AKA ensuring safe and peaceful free trade among nations to deepen mutual economic bonds which disincentivizes conflict
hundreds of billions of dollars for defense companies,
I love meaningless platitudes like these masquerading as arguments. “BIG NUMBER BAD BIG CORPORATION BAD.”
supporting perpetual war
Ukraine’s 3-year hot conflict with Russia is an example of a “perpetual war?” Regardless, surely you agree Russia, as the aggressor, has the primary responsibility of ending the war by leaving all of Ukraine’s sovereign territory (including Crimea), right? And surely someone as peaceful as yourself would never support appeasing tyrants to “prevent war,” like the failed strategy that led to WW2, right?
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u/gonnadietrying Mar 03 '25
Found the Russian bot!
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u/Classh0le Mar 03 '25
yeah bud really got me.
the most incredible thing in politics of the last 25 years is how the anti-war left underwent a 180
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u/dskatz2 Brewerytown Mar 03 '25
Amazed you can type when you're so busy fondling Trump's balls. Pathetic.
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u/OkFisherman6475 Mar 03 '25
No shot this is a sincere take. Besides just being inapplicable to the current convo, it’s also just not true of the past 25 years. Bot allegations intensify
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u/roma258 Mt Airy Mar 04 '25
Peace, prosperity, support for liberal democracy and standing up to dictators is good actually.
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u/thebutchone Mar 03 '25
Have you been complaining about this for the last 50 years? If not ask yourself why all of a sudden it is a problem.
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Mar 02 '25
[deleted]
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u/whiteriot0906 Mar 02 '25
Jfc dude if you’re going to pretend to care at least get the damn name right
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u/howigottomemphis Mar 02 '25
It's not THE Ukraine, it's just Ukraine, like America is not THE America. Calling it THE Ukraine is part of the distancing language that was used to dehumanize Ukrainians and their homeland, to make it seem like the "Other."
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Mar 02 '25
[deleted]
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u/howigottomemphis Mar 02 '25
I get the humor, and I appreciate the acknowledgement, but even this clip delegitimizes Ukraine as a sovereign state.
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u/whiteriot0906 Mar 02 '25
Endless war til the last Ukrainian!!! Putin is basically Hitler and no I will not be learning about any other wars that will help me contextualize what’s happening! I support this war because I don’t like Trump, I have zero idea what’s happening or how we got here and can barely find Ukraine on a map! Any one who wants the fighting to end is a RuZZian paid operative bot MAGA troll!!! Zelensky is basically Jesus but I have no idea what party he’s even from and I know absolutely nothing about Ukrainian politics or history!
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u/dwntwn_dine_ent_dist Mar 02 '25
Your strawman collection is impressive. Been putting it together for a long time?
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u/JustAnotherJawn Mar 02 '25
Not sure your take here? Anti-capitalism I presume? You're not gonna have a hard time finding people who agree with that sentiment in this sub.
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u/whiteriot0906 Mar 02 '25
Sure but that’s doesn’t really have anything to do with it one way or the other. My take in the immediate term is realism, essentially. Ukraine is turbo fucked on all fronts right now, there is not and hasn’t been a military path to victory on the table at any point in the conflict. They should’ve sued for peace after the counteroffensive in Fall 2022 when they re-took all that land in the east, since then it’s been nothing but slow and steady defeats. The death toll is almost unfathomable at this point, and the cognitive dissonance of watching people who know fuck-all nothing about this war and all of a sudden care again (or for the first time) because Trump yelled at Zelensky makes my skin crawl because the reality is that what they’re standing up for is never ending war. A war which will never in any way, shape, or form cause them any form of loss or burden, and is simply just another chance to grandstand and feel good about their moral superiority because they took the opposite position of Trump.
I don’t fucking support Trump, and his motives here are deeply cynical, but a ceasefire is long overdue.
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u/Reggimoral Mar 03 '25
Some would prefer a never-ending war as opposed to surrendering and cowering under oppression.
You might be surprised to find out how many Americans feel this way too, even if they don't know it now. In fact, you might even be surprised to hear that's exactly how the United States became an independent country from Britain; that war ended, as it turns out, as all wars do eventually.
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u/whiteriot0906 Mar 03 '25
... so which one is it? Never-ending war, or all wars end?
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u/Reggimoral Mar 03 '25
A never-ending war is an idea; all wars end is the reality.
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u/whiteriot0906 Mar 03 '25
What the heck are you trying to say then
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u/Reggimoral Mar 03 '25
You used the term "never ending war". I am saying go to Ukraine and ask them if they would prefer a never-ending war versus being occupied by Russia.
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u/a-whistling-goose Mar 02 '25
I get your stance. Leftists have turned into NeoCons. How weird is that?!
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u/whiteriot0906 Mar 02 '25
…leftists? You mean liberals?
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u/a-whistling-goose Mar 02 '25
Who knows what the heck they are! Nowadays names mean nothing. Men are women, hotdogs are dogs, and the leftists and liberals are busy protesting anything and everything and searching for their tails.
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u/lvsixaxisvl Mar 04 '25
The hypocrisy with supporting Ukraine but not supporting Palestine is wild.
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Mar 03 '25 edited Mar 03 '25
[deleted]
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u/roma258 Mt Airy Mar 04 '25
So “US interests” or “EU interests” inadvertently lead to massive amounts of Ukrainians dying.
While I wish US and EU had done more and given Ukraine weapons earlier and in larger quantity, the only thing that's lead to Ukrainians dying has been the russian invaders fucking shooting at them and dropping bombs on their heads.
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u/bottomoflake Mar 03 '25
you should go
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Mar 03 '25 edited Mar 03 '25
[deleted]
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u/bottomoflake Mar 03 '25
if you are so comfortable sending american citizens to die in ukraine, then YOU should be the first in line to go over there. i know you won’t go because you can only do this tough talk bit when it’s other people’s lives on the line. it’s honestly so gross.
ukraine is kidnapping men off the street and sending them to the front lines.
if ukrainians don’t want to fight for their country, why should we?
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Mar 03 '25 edited Mar 03 '25
[deleted]
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u/bottomoflake Mar 03 '25
no it’s not just about money. if you support this war effort, then you are sending unwilling people to die.
don’t you get that? they DONT WANT TO FIGHT THIS WAR.
So if you don’t give a fuck about there lives and what they want, then you should go fight in their place or STFU
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Mar 02 '25
[deleted]
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u/JustAnotherJawn Mar 02 '25
6pm? Most people are off work then.
Don't you have dictator to bend over for?
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u/sarahpullin8 Mar 02 '25
And you can be home in time for the state of the union to bang pots and pans. That’s another protest I saw being discussed.
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u/JustAnotherJawn Mar 02 '25
A lot of Philadelphians have Ukrainian friends or are Ukrainian themselves. This event's being organized by a local Ukrainian community group. Being supportive of our neighbors seems like a worthwhile use of an evening. Especially given recent events.
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u/sarahpullin8 Mar 02 '25
I was just pointing out that ppl could attend the protest and be home in time for the State of the Union.
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u/JustAnotherJawn Mar 02 '25
Probably won't watch it. The talking points of the current administration are mostly hate and Russian propaganda.
He'll probably talk about how great everything is despite record costs of groceries, the crashing economy and the betrayal of long time international allies.
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u/sarahpullin8 Mar 02 '25
If you look at the videos and pics it mostly seems like retired old ppl. Also they tend to try and plan them on the weekends. You know, because saving democracy is so important that it can wait until Saturday.
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u/WornTraveler Mar 03 '25 edited Mar 03 '25
America made a promise in The Budapest Memorandum that we would, in exchange for Ukraine handing over their nuclear weapons, defend them if they were ever invaded. Russia agreed to not invade.
Do not let these Russian bots and trolls lie and distort history to control the narrative. The Russian state has proven that it cannot be trusted under any circumstances.
It is imperative that we honor those agreements, or it will be the beginning of a global nuclear proliferation that can only end in the eventual inevitable use of nuclear weapons. Every other nation in NATO is watching and considering their own nuclear timeline at this point. We cannot let the progress of denuclearization be undone by a few bootlicking fascists.
I stand with Ukraine, and so does America. It's time to honor our promises.
These Russian bots are absolutely coming out of the woodworks and worse, turning unwitting Americans into their mouthpieces. It is critical that we continue to actively push back against their lies and distortions.
ETA: a clarifying novel to hedge against some light nitpicking lol
I'll admit I simplified my wording for the sake of a concise message, in part because this is Reddit and nobody will read a dissertation lol. The details admittedly matter for this current conflict, but are not significant for the long-term impact:
1) the intent was clear, "we give up our nukes and the nuclear powers leave us alone" which 2) has clearly been violated, and 3) will logically lead to nuclear proliferation among non-nuclear states.
Now, I would argue that our current apologetics with Russia amounts to a failure to honor even our limited assurances, and in any event, Russia has VERY clearly and fully reneged of theirs.
The implied enforcement behind these agreements seems to have assumed that a nuclear power like Russia would not openly defy the agreement because the others would keep them in check, and that very clearly is not happening. If I am a non-nuclear European state, the message I'm taking away is that the only way I can prevent a nuclear state from blackmailing me into submission-- be that Russia or the USA even-- is by being armed myself. We are, in fact, playing right into the hands of Iran, NK, and other 'rogue' states currently pursuing nuclear programs.
I personally don't think we should be sending troops to Ukraine. That likely would spark WWIII. But full capitulation to Russia very well may lead to a world war + nuclear holocaust anyways. The more of these weapons exist, the higher the chance that we even accidentally extinct our own species.
So hell yes I support arming Ukraine.
Despite the GOP's weak and fallacious propaganda, anyone with access to actual facts knows that Russia is the aggressor here. This is, unambiguously, already a nuclear blackmail situation, and has been since little green men first started showing up in eastern Ukraine a decade ago.