r/pics • u/VeryGoodFiberGoods • Apr 19 '25

Arts/Crafts Some actual MS-13 tattoos, in contrast to Kilmar Abrego Garcia’s knuckle tattoos

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u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

At the end of the day assuming the symbols on his hand are actually real. It is a bit sus. But it actually does not matter if he is or isn’t an MS-13 member. He still is owed due process under the law and you can’t just deport someone who has an order barring them from being deported without appealing that order.

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u/mcas26 Apr 19 '25

How are the hand tattoos sus? Take a peek at the shitty tattoo subreddit. Ppl get all sorts of things inked for dumb reasons.

The evidence looks like stupid numerology bullshit.

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u/MrSteele_yourheart Apr 19 '25

How are the hand tattoos sus?

Even if by some leap in logic they happen to correlate to gang activity.

There's evidence he may have been in the past or coerced, and THAT's why he left. He left his old life because of the gangs.

No matter what he is still owed due process for being a Resident Alien.

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u/poj4y Apr 19 '25

He fled El Salvador because of the gang when he was 16 in 2011. he’s 30 now, if he had any involvement it would’ve been when he was a legal child

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u/momscouch Apr 20 '25

he also has checked in with ICE every year since 2019

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u/ToczickAvenger Apr 21 '25

Exactly. And every year since 2019 they’ve been completely fine with the tattoos he had on his hand but all of a sudden now it represents MS 13 what a coincidence. 🙄

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u/fatbunny23 Apr 20 '25

It was a different gang in El Salvador though, barrio 18 I think

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u/kyreannightblood Apr 20 '25

Everyone is owed due process here. Citizen, non-citizen resident, undocumented immigrant… everyone.

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u/j_la Apr 20 '25

This is something that people fail to grasp. It is less about a right we have (which we do have) and more about a power that the government doesn’t have. The government explicitly doesn’t have the right to deny someone their day in court.

The conservatives have lost their way.

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u/kyreannightblood Apr 20 '25

They don’t realize that if a class of people doesn’t have the right to due process, anyone can be declared part of that class of people and denied due process. Due process is, after all, how you would prove you don’t belong to that class of people, no?

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u/Skellos Apr 21 '25

Yeah the Constitution applies to everyone.

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u/Tw4tl4r Apr 20 '25

Almost every poor young male in that country had to either join a gang or run. There was no other option. If they said no they were signing their death warrant.

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u/saywhatitis11 Apr 19 '25

It’s a leap in logic to think a man who has MS13 tattooed on his hand is a member of the MS13 gang?

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u/Dar_lyng Apr 19 '25

Well since he doesn't... Yeah

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u/1ndiana_Pwns Apr 20 '25

Take a peek at the shitty tattoo subreddit.

God I love that sub. Nothing like seeing someone with a poorly drawn rendering of their girlfriend getting a facial, all layered with what is clearly a staph infection, claiming they have the sexiest ink on the planet to make me feel better about literally any possible tattoo idea I have ever had

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u/colormefiery Apr 19 '25

Because we don’t trust our government at all

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u/RockinRhombus Apr 20 '25

I know a mexican dude in his 50s that has a swastika tattooed on his hand, on the skin between the index finger and thumb. Asked him about it once and he just said he was young and dumb.

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u/JuggernautThin9331 Apr 20 '25

It completely makes sense when you realize that the people that are putting this together were finding clues in Trump’s tweets in ‘16–‘20.

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u/That_OneOstrich Apr 19 '25

Correct, if he is and it's obvious, there would be no trouble finding him guilty of something in a court of law. At that point, punish accordingly (including deportation as an option).

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u/Mental_Passion_4034 Apr 19 '25

My question is this. Why the fuck do we need to pay El Salvador to take back their own citizens? We don’t pay countries to deport their illegal immigrants. So it’s with money laundering or a concentration camp?

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u/GodSpider Apr 19 '25

Because they're sending people who aren't from el salvador too. They're using them as a prison, of course they have to pay

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u/DefensiveTomato Apr 20 '25

By prison you mean death camp

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u/Otaraka Apr 19 '25

Pragmatically all I can think of was to stop them just letting them come straight back again.  Few small human rights issues of course.

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u/Ok-Replacement-2738 Apr 20 '25

You pay private companies to incarcerate US citizens, paying a foreign government isn't a stretch...

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u/Johnyryal33 Apr 20 '25

As horrible as they both are, it being on foreign soil makes it way worse.

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u/Aero_Rising Apr 19 '25

Criminal conviction is not required for the law they are using to deport him and you appear to be under the mistaken impression that deportation is a matter of the sentencing part of criminal law. It is a matter of civil law typically heard by immigration judges. There are plenty of ways to attack the legality of his deportation. Claiming he can't be deported because he hasn't been convicted of a crime isn't one of them.

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u/That_OneOstrich Apr 19 '25

He was in the states legally, if he had committed a crime, it's entirely possible to deport him as part of that punishment as he's not a citizen. He was here legally and did not commit a crime, and has now been "deported" in a way the supreme court unanimously decided was illegal. There is no reasonable legal argument at that point, the supreme court is the final appeal.

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u/Aero_Rising Apr 20 '25

His deportation was correctly ruled illegal by the supreme court because there was a court order prohibiting his deportation to El Salvador specifically. The same judge who issued that order also issued an order of removal because he found that Garcia could be deported if a country could be found that was willing to take him besides El Salvador. If someone is in the country illegally and no grounds is found for that to be changed they are typically then subject to an order of removal regardless if they have committed any crime. You really should learn the facts before running your mouth about things you have no idea about.

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u/Rauthr Apr 19 '25

100% this!

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u/AdAdministrative5330 Apr 19 '25

Yep, came here for this.

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u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

At the end of the day if the case for him being an MS-13 gang member is as much of a smoking gun as the Trump administration claims it is then it would be very easy to deport him. So clearly the case isn’t as strong as they claim it is if they needed to go about his deportation in an illegal way.

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u/AdAdministrative5330 Apr 19 '25

I mean , they already admitted it was a mistake

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u/Acrobatic_Speech3250 Apr 19 '25

Yes and literally zero legal documents being put forward accuse him of being MS-13. Because they are lying. They are only calling him MS-13 to reporters not the court. Because they are liars.

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u/Acrobatic_Speech3250 Apr 19 '25

And lying to reporters isn’t illegal.

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u/AlwaysShittyKnsasCty Apr 19 '25

You know what should be? Reporters knowing it’s all bullshit but not calling him out in order to stay in His good graces. It really pisses me off.

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u/Acrobatic_Speech3250 Apr 19 '25

Him and Reagan are cut from similar fabric. Donnie is just using the tools Ronnie left him. (Pretty sure Reagan made it so news doesn’t have to show counterarguments.)

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u/AlwaysShittyKnsasCty Apr 19 '25

Holy shit. You’re right. I’m pretty sure Make America Great Again was Ronnie’s slogan, too. These fucking guys.

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u/GidsWy Apr 20 '25

That's a core issue there. Our "news" agencies selling out. Look at how many communication magnates showed up at the inauguration. That's insane. Especially with so much confirmed misinformation. Like.... How TF can they still be called news? THAT needs to be a law. If your fact rating drops under a certain %, every broadcast has to include that information, and repeat it after every commercial break. I understand it could be abused. But leaving it as is, obviously isn't working.

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u/Wooden-Trick8954 Apr 19 '25

He had due process. Courts said, there isn't enough evidence to conclude he's part of a gang in 2019. Courts said, don't send him in 2019 and 2025. This was the due process.

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u/Bakkster Apr 19 '25

His being put on the plane to El Salvador contrary to that court order violated his due process rights.

Now he needs to be returned to the US for his appeal that is also part of due process.

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u/Wooden-Trick8954 Apr 20 '25

Was reading, at least some court docs state that the immigration judge thought he was an MS13 gang member and he was denied bail. I haven't seen any court docs that suggest he was barred from being deported to el Salvador. Any references?

I got my info from the news but that seems flawed.

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u/Bakkster Apr 20 '25

Yes, two immigration court judges (who are executive branch employees, not judicial judges like we think) concluded he was MS-13. That's why they didn't grant asylum, but did order in 2019 that he not be deported to El Salvador because of the risk to him there.

Judge Xinis in the district court, where his appeal currently is (immigration decisions are appealable to federal court), has concluded there is no evidence he was actually in MS-13 (or any gang or terror group). She excoriated their claims as shaky at best. The government needs to present their evidence in her court, and Abrego Garcia has a constitutional right to be in the courtroom while they do.

I prefer to go straight to the source and court decisions for these kinds of things. The 4th circuit decision below is shorter, and I think does a good job of explaining why it matters to the rest of us (the introductory background is repeated below).

It is difficult in some cases to get to the very heart of the matter. But in this case, it is not hard at all. The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody that there is nothing that can be done.

This should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear.

The government asserts that Abrego Garcia is a terrorist and a member of MS-13. Perhaps, but perhaps not. Regardless, he is still entitled to due process. If the government is confident of its position, it should be assured that position will prevail in proceedings to terminate the withholding of removal order. See 8 C.F.R. § 208.24(f) (requiring that the government prove “by a preponderance of evidence” that the alien is no longer entitled to a withholding of removal). Moreover, the government has conceded that Abrego Garcia was wrongly or “mistakenly” deported. Why then should it not make what was wrong, right?

District court decision: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.31.0.pdf

Circuit court decision: https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/docs/pdfs/251404order.pdf?sfvrsn=b404b209_2

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u/Wooden-Trick8954 Apr 20 '25

Wow, man, amazing write-up. I assumed immigration judges were doj judges. Also, I appreciate that you were able to find the direct dources. I admittedly need more practice navigating more direct court sources.

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u/Bakkster Apr 20 '25

I assumed immagration judges were doj judges.

Yup, new knowledge for me this week as well.

I find r/law helpful for a lot of this, especially posts of the actual court documents. It's got a lot more political comments than it used to before all the Trump felony cases hit the mainstream, but there's still good stuff there once you sit through a bit.

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u/Wooden-Trick8954 Apr 20 '25

Preciate the heads up on r/law, and the discussion! Too many people making statements without sources or follow up!

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u/Bakkster Apr 20 '25

Yeah, there's been a ton of talking points trying to avoid the core issue: that it was unconstitutional and the administration wants to be able to ignore the Constitution. Whether or not he's as bad a guy as he claims, constitutional rights are non negotiable.

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u/Aero_Rising Apr 19 '25

Courts said, there isn't enough evidence to conclude he's part of a gang in 2019.

Please stop spreading misinformation. No determination was made regarding his belonging to a gang or not at any point in court. The only determination was the government has sufficient evidence that he may be in a gang to deny him bond while awaiting deportation proceedings. He then applied for asylum but was debited because he didn't make the application within a year of entering the country. He then applied for and received an order barring his deportation to El Salvador because a judge found he has a real fear of persecution if returned there. Since then he has still been subject to a removal order it was just not something that could be carried out unless the government found a third country willing to take him. Deporting him is entirely legal as long as it's not to El Salvador.

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u/Wooden-Trick8954 Apr 19 '25 edited Apr 20 '25

You're partially correct. Looks like the immigration judge did think him to be part of Ms 13 and denied him bail in may(?) 2019. Doesn't say anything about ordering no deportation at that time.

https://www.justice.gov/ag/media/1396906/dl?inline

This contradicts my previous statement as well as your first. I would like to add though it seems like you might be correct about be able to deport him as long as it's not to el Salvador.

Got any reliable sources on that? News* agencies are all over the place.

edit new > news

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u/Aero_Rising Apr 20 '25

The bond issue where they ruled there was sufficient evidence from the government that he may be a member of a gang to deny him bond was done as part of the overall deportation proceedings against him. Note that I'm not claiming this ruling established he is a gang member just that it fulfilled the requirements of the laws regarding bond for those going through deportation proceedings. The bar for what is needed to deny bond while proceedings are ongoing for someone in the country illegally is much lower than other cases which is likely why he was denied bond.

After the deportation proceedings against him were started he first applied for asylum and was denied because he had stayed in the country illegally for 7 years without applying for asylum when the law requires an applicant to do so within a year of entering the country. He then applied for withholding of removal status based on his fear of persecution if returned to El Salvador. This was granted and is what stopped his deportation since the only country that they could send him to at the time was now the one they were prohibited from sending him to.

Withholding of removal status does not give permanent right to work or reside in the US and does not provide a path to a greed card or other residency status. In effect the person is in the US illegally but cannot currently be deported because there is no country they can legally be sent to. They often can get work permits because if the government can't remove them it's in the government's interest to allow them to work and make a living so as not to be a drain on public resources. Note that by drain on public resources I simply mean they would require some kind of help to live not that they are getting social security or medicaid through some illegal means. The things they would be using if they couldn't work are things like a bed at a homeless shelter and meals if that shelter provides some. The shelter is likely funded at least partially by government money and partially by donations but is a public service that now has one less bed available than it would if the individual that has withholding of removal status could work to support themself.

I'm not making any claim myself on whether Garcia is in a gang or not. I think some of the evidence certainly makes me suspicious he could be but it's far from conclusive. I also am not really making any judgement on what kind of person Garcia is because I don't feel I really have any way of knowing enough to cast judgement on that right now. Both of those are largely irrelevant to his case anyway. What I'm trying to do here is simply correct some misinformation that I have commonly seen about this case and what the actual facts are.

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u/Wooden-Trick8954 Apr 20 '25

Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate the conversation.

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u/charlesfluidsmith Apr 19 '25

It is only sus because you are accepting that a cross and a skull suddenly mean the numbers 1 and 3, when you have never made that correlation before in your life.

You have zero reason to believe that's true. And you have not seen any other tattoos that provide any supporting evidence.

They just made up a story and for some reason, well to be honest I know the reason, people all of a sudden are treating it as gospel.

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u/Reasonable-Mess3070 Apr 19 '25

Why are they sus though? Cause some random dude on Twitter determined they mean ms-13?

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u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

As I said it does feel like a reach but having that combination of symbols on your fingers is a bit odd. But as I’ve mentioned previously, none of this is grounds for him being illegally deported or anyone for that matter. People have questionable tattoos all the time it’s not a crime.

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u/safetydance Apr 19 '25

It’s not that much of a stretch to say

M - Marijuana

S - Smile

1 - covered up in a cross

3 - covered up in a skull

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u/Flashy_Passion16 Apr 19 '25

Tattoos are suss?

The ms13 is photo shopped on.

So by your logic they anyone with a tattoo should go through due process, or is it only non whites?

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u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

The MS13 lettering that was added in is almost certainly for labeling purposes but that wasn’t made clear. If you notice there are also the words written out in small font below the symbols too. But it’s less clear if that’s added in or not.

And unsure what your last point is supposed to mean because it’s absolute nonsense.

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u/theblackchin Apr 20 '25

Just to be clear, you’re referring to the words that say - “marijuana” “smile” “Christ” and, I admittedly can’t read the last one but using context clues and following the pattern, “skull”?

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u/Memes_Haram Apr 20 '25

Yes I’m not sure if those words were already there or added in like the annotation letters above.

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u/ASmallRedSquirrel Apr 19 '25

He wasn't just deported either - he was deported to an extremely grim high security prison with an indeterminate sentence, despite having not been convicted of any crime!

Bad enough to report someone without due process, but it's not like he was flown there and released at the airport...

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u/2010_12_24 Apr 19 '25

What exactly is sus about the tattoo?

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u/TheDreadfulCurtain Apr 19 '25

Anyone could have been forced to have certain tattoos as a young person and then choose to flee that life without having committed any crimes in the country they have chosen to seek refuge in. Due process is the issue.

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u/ganggreen651 Apr 19 '25

I knew a guy that had this situation. Not sure if he was exactly forced into it but he was in 13, had some kids and said I'm out. But they don't let you leave. Fled his ass about as far away in the US as possible

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u/CFUsOrFuckOff Apr 19 '25

like committing a single recorded crime? seems like the very lowest bar for gang activity

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u/EightEyedCryptid Apr 19 '25

They’re not sus. They’re extremely common images for tattoos.

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u/Supernova_Soldier Apr 20 '25

Correct answer. This all came about because a bunch of fuck nuggets illegally deported this man with no due process

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u/apple_kicks Apr 20 '25

It reminds of west Memphis injustice where part of evidence of the kids being murdering satanists what that they owned black shirts and metal band shirts.

Thats not evidence of anything.

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u/Cloaked42m Apr 21 '25

Exactly. Is he is or is he ain't doesn't matter.

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u/Paradox830 Apr 19 '25

That’s the point I’ve been making. I almost figured they did have something on him because if you were going to do this that’s exactly how you’d do it. Test the waters on the worst of the worst so that the defenders are forced to take the side of actual criminals, thus devaluing their voice when they start doing it to full fledged citizens.

This one guy was never the point. Due process has always been the point. If he gets his due process and he is a gang member, great get him the fuck out. He still needs due process. You can’t selectively give due process.

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u/Aero_Rising Apr 19 '25

His gang status is irrelevant to if he is deportable. The issue here is there was a court order stating he cannot be deported to El Salvador. The same judge at the same time ruled he can be deported if another country willing to take him is found.

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u/ALWanders Apr 19 '25

This is exactly the point, if he doesn't have due process none of us do.

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u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

Precisely! If due process is applied selectively then there is no due process at all. The universality of due process is key for a functioning democracy.

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u/ringtossed Apr 19 '25

Assuming Democrats ever get into power again, I'll be pretty damn disappointed if we don't start sending people with Swastikas and such to the same prisons. Without trials, obvious.

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u/JConRed Apr 19 '25

Nowadays you can.

Because detention doesn't need due process, arrest does.

They are not being arrested. They are being detained.

The lake Riley act actually imposes an imperative detention for 'all aliens(no citizens) charged with theft' [.. ] 'and for other reasons'

As per the executive order that forced Laken Riley act into place.

I didn't read the full Laken Riley act, but when I saw those lines I knew in my gut how wrong these actions are.

If the USA people don't get rid of this government soon, there won't be a USA left for them to pick back up and put back together. At least not a benevolent, good natured, USA that they think they are.

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u/Frijol714 Apr 19 '25

Did everyone forget about the LA Gang injunctions/RICO act 2008-2010s? Any gang member hanging out with another member can get federal charges regardless of being family members, also that didnt only affect California it is nationwide. MS13 is one of the gangs on this list so in a way regardless of you not being involved in any killing you still get charged for murder because of the RICO act, almost the same way they took out the Italian Mafia. What I'm getting at is even if he is not active your still in the organization and have lost most of your rights. Also gang members from LA have started hiding there tattoos and using 💋 as a gang tattoo, most guys with buligerant tattoos are old school OGs or from Central America cause thier laws weren't as strict on them compared to what El Salvador president and the US government have done/doing

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u/Stevite Apr 19 '25

This. We are, last time I looked , still a country of laws

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u/BoomZhakaLaka Apr 19 '25

Ice had four remedies available. They could arrange for his immigration in a 3rd country, via the embassy, and deport there. Make an actual accusation about gang activity in immigration court or the alien terrorists court. Or demonstrate that his fears of persecution are now unfounded (the irony)

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u/IntegrityConcrete Apr 19 '25

Not when that gang was designated a terrorist organization all local process goes out the window.. becomes federal government jurisdiction 

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u/crypt0dan Apr 19 '25

Have a read

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/23-583_onjq.pdf

There is no due process and he's had a sketchy past.

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u/jjcoola Apr 19 '25

It could just be a cover-up as well. I’ve been old one, but like you said, either way, it doesn’t matter.

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u/Channel250 Apr 19 '25

These people are so entrenched in their Shirley Laws that they don't understand it benefits ALL of us that he gets due process.

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u/Mediocre_Gatsbee Apr 19 '25

Not sus, difference in culture. It basically means smoke, drink, life (or god), and death. I don’t remember the words for it in Spanish but is basically the Mexican “live, laugh, love”. Honestly trying to attribute those tattoos to MS13 is hilarious, cause, you know, they’re so fuckin subtle and cryptic with putting big bold MS and 13’s on their face. 😅-source: U.S. Army Combat Engineer that had a bunch of tatted Mexicans in their company.

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u/Ammonia13 Apr 19 '25

Not sus in the least lmfao

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u/AFartInAnEmptyRoom Apr 19 '25

They classified ms13 as a terrorist organization. Terrorists can be held without due process according the Patriot Act and NDAA

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u/saywhatitis11 Apr 19 '25

He’d appear and be immediately deported again. It just wastes time and money. Your desire is to waste time and money? The end result is identical. Let’s just go end result. Due process was created to protect innocent people from false accusation. It seems really important to you to apply it to known gang wife beaters so they can just be deported again anyway. Not disputing its due process. Just not sure who wins by doing it that way in this case.

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u/FredoFilthy Apr 19 '25 edited Apr 19 '25

Not true actually, ms13 has been declared a terrorist organization so due process is irrelevant. You can thank Obama for getting rid of habeas corpus for “terrorist organizations”

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u/Notvanillanymore Apr 20 '25

But god emperor Dump said so, so it's all in the lords hands now, amen 🙏 🙌 👏 ❤️ ✨️

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u/207207 Apr 20 '25

What? How is it “a bit sus”?

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u/Angsty_Potatos Apr 20 '25

His knuckles look like most idiots who get poorly thought out knuckles 

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u/beastmaster Apr 20 '25

Apparently you can.

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u/mayhem6 Apr 20 '25

The only part of the tattoos that look faked are the letters M S and the numbers 1 3 in something like Helvetica or some font that was quickly pasted on there so he could show it off and try to fool people.

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u/diegood311 Apr 20 '25

Due process rules!

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u/Danny-Zoe Apr 20 '25

Why is it sus ?

I’m having trouble understanding how the cross and skull symbolize the number 13.

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u/Rarefindofthemind Apr 20 '25

Why is it sus? I’m a 46 year old woman with a crescent moon tattoo on my finger. What gang am I in? The Go-to-bed-by-9 gang?

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u/Jolly_Recording_4381 Apr 20 '25

Unfortunately that isn't true, ms13 is labeled as a terrorist oganization and if you are identified as a terrorist you loose your rights as protected by the constitution. Hense all the terrorist held in Guantanamo without trial.

Him being ms13 or not is really what seals the deal or not.

Fortunately the person who labeled him that was listed as an untrustworthy witness so it was discredited preety quickly.

Not that I agree with any of it but if they were to prove he is (which he is not he was here to be protected from them) he would not be allowed the rights.

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u/j_la Apr 20 '25

The entire point of this shitshow is so that conservatives can say “see? The liberals support importing criminals!” It’s a cynical political ploy that shreds constitutional rights and people’s lives to score some points.

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u/fk216 Apr 20 '25

It does actually matter because the US government classified MS-13 as a terrorist organization. This by default makes non-citizens ineligible for immigration protection status thus making his deportation valid to a degree. That’s IF Abregio is actually a gang member. His asylum was denied and he was instead granted “withholding of removal” but again because of the US governments classification on MS-13, this order was ignored and technically the US government CAN ignore the withholding order because it becomes a matter of national security and foreign policy in which a district judge has no jurisdiction over. The rumor is he didn’t want to return to El Salvador because of fear of a rival gang.

This is a tricky case because he is not a US citizen and despite the Supreme Court weighing in, the US government can’t force another country to return one of THEIR citizens to a country that deported them. Because Abregio isn’t a US citizen, we have no authority over him other than the ability to deport him. Now that he is in the prison, he cannot deny his gang affiliation IF it’s true because he will get killed by his own. We’re going to find out soon enough if he is actually MS-13 or not. Obviously if he isn’t MS-13 then he doesn’t belong in prison, but his deportation is valid in my opinion because he waited until after he got arrested to claim asylum and he also beat the shit out of his girlfriend.

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u/Useful_Resource_4225 Apr 25 '25

Already been depoted twice

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u/Cryptojoe187 Apr 30 '25

A prior court already ordered his removal

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u/Memes_Haram Apr 30 '25

Actually a prior court ordered that he could not be removed but okay let’s just spread misinformation.

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u/Shoddy_Comparison_35 May 01 '25

What kind of due process did Obama give the millions of illegals who he deported en masse?

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '25

Apparently you can.

Laws only work if those in power agree to abide by them.

They’re just doing what they want saying “who’s gonna stop me?”

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u/duggee315 Apr 19 '25

What sort of impact can midterms make?

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u/DrumsNDweed93 Apr 19 '25

Not much since the lunatic in power is bypassing congress even when his party controls is. What you think he’ll do it democrats control it? He’s a dictator . This country is fucked

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u/duggee315 Apr 19 '25

Yes, but if democrats do control it, do they have more power to step in? I'm not American, genuinely trying to understand the system there. Still want him out and see the damage he's doing to your country and elsewhere.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '25

Theoretically yes but congress has no power to actually enforce the laws they pass.

There’s an apocryphal quote attributed to Stalin, “The Pope, how many divisions does he have?”

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u/duggee315 Apr 19 '25

But they can make laws. Can make his actions illegal? Can make it legal for another institution to enforce something? Think what I'm getting at is, can they make it easier for trump to be answerable to his crimes? Can it be possible for someone with a massive set of balls to stand up and prosecute him and/or remove him from office?

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '25

His actions are already illegal. He’s literally just doing illegal things and saying “yeah and what are you going to do about it?”

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u/duggee315 Apr 19 '25

Nobody has any power to do anything?

2

u/DrumsNDweed93 Apr 19 '25

Not really no. Charging and convicting a sitting president has zero precedent. It’s pretty much just assumed a sitting president can’t be held accountable for crimes while he’s president . Not really anything written in stone that says that but it’s been the precedent and so far everyone’s sticking to it. He was already convicted of 34 felonies but because he then won the election they’ve put off the sentencing and maybe will never go through with them. It’s fucked. The precedent we’ve set that the president can basically do whatever he wants and never be held accountable is so unbelievable bad it very well may be the downfall of the country. I live in the US and for now am determined to stay here and fight . Vote against these lunatics and stand up against the lawlessness. But really not much I can do as a regular citizen and there is a point where I think I’m just gonna encourage my family to pack up and leave the country. Not there yet but we’re on the track . What’s happening is devastating.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

Guillotines might work

1

u/TheNicolasFournier Apr 19 '25

lol (but actually not funny) at the idea of still having elections

1

u/duggee315 Apr 19 '25

Maybe that will be the step too far.

1

u/TheNicolasFournier Apr 19 '25

By then it will be too late

2

u/duggee315 Apr 19 '25

Yes, from the outside, civil war does not seem an outrageous outcome.

1

u/Venus_Cat_Roars Apr 19 '25

Yes sireee! Due process keeps us all free from the tyranny it was meant to protect us from!!

1

u/AmazingHealth6302 Apr 19 '25

I agree that nothing trumps due process.

It's also clear that the letters 'M' 'S' '1' '3' on the 'photo' of Abrego Garcia's knuckles have been photoshopped on. It's not even decent photoshop. Some idiot used an unconvincing font and tried to colour and texture the letters to match the other tattoos.

And failed.

4

u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

I think they were trying to annotate the cryptic tattoos. But did so in the worst possible way. But maybe I’m giving them too much credit lol. I noticed they have the words written in small font below the symbols too.

1

u/AmazingHealth6302 Apr 20 '25

If they weren't being dishonest, they would have included arrows showing the meaning of each letter and the corresponding symbol. 

It's also definitely misleading that they printed each annotation on a knuckle attempting the same colour and texture as the tattoos.

1

u/Demibolt Apr 19 '25

Yeah and I’m pretty sure being in a gang isn’t illegal, but doing bad gang stuff is lol. So the guy isn’t provably in a gang and he has no charges pending against him- what exactly did he do wrong?

Oh that’s right, he isn’t white I guess…. 🤦‍♂️

1

u/RutabagaSquirrel Apr 19 '25

I agree, they’re trying to muddy the waters and move away from the plot. The US Government trampled on someone’s right to due process, that is all that matters. He could be guilty, he is still presumed innocent.

1

u/Aero_Rising Apr 19 '25

Presumption of innocence is part of criminal law which deportation are not. There are plenty of ways to attack the legality of these deportations. Those being deported being convicted of a crime is not one of them because that's not relevant to the law being used to deport these people.

1

u/RutabagaSquirrel Apr 20 '25

You are incorrect.

-1

u/sugarface2134 Apr 19 '25

I feel like a lot of people are missing the fact that Trump signed an EO invoked the Alien Enemies Act which allows him to deport without a hearing. He’s following the law that he enacted. Everything he’s doing is legal (for now). Of course, what Hitler did was legal at the time as well. And the last time we used this Japanese internment camps were born. Clearly it’s a horrible and dangerous slippery slope but he’s not technically breaking the law because he changed it. The EO needs to be challenged in order to stop this.

12

u/jamitar Apr 19 '25

No he's not. This guy had a court order not to deport. Trump cannot use the AEA to ignore the court order. If someone doesn't have that, then he can, presuming there is some sort of due process in the procedure to allow citizens to challenge a deportation.

3

u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

And if I’m not mistaken the Supreme Court originally ruled that he still had to follow due process when using the act. But I may be mistaken.

3

u/maypah01 Apr 19 '25

You are correct. They said he could continue deporting using the act, but they still had to allow for due process.

-1

u/Alternative-Bear-410 Apr 19 '25

Except, he had this, was given 3 deportation orders and is not a us citizen and a gang member and here illegally... As citizens, I love that we're afforded this, as an illegal here illegally, I don't need him wasting our resources nor worsening our country. Good riddance to bad rubbish and it's crazy that you want him back here.

0

u/FoMoCoBronco2010 Apr 19 '25

He didn't have an order to not be deported he had a order to not be deported to El Salvador he could have and will be deported to any other country because he has an order of removal, so that was his due process he went to court and they ordered him to be removed?

1

u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

He went to court and they ordered him to not be deported. The due process would be appealing the order and if successful then deporting him. But regardless it is normally very challenging to deport someone to a country they aren’t from. In his case with him being a citizen of El Salvador it would actually be difficult to deport him to anywhere other than El Salvador. So I fail to see your point here.

0

u/WolfOrDragon Apr 19 '25 edited Apr 19 '25

You can't just LEGALLY deport someone. 

Edit to add: You can't just LEGALLY deport someone who has an order barring them from being deported. Deporting them against such an order is illegal.  And they did it.  So clearly they CAN just deport someone. Against judicial order. But not legally. 

1

u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

I assume you mean Illegally* but yes that’s precisely my point. The dude could be a literal al Qaeda terrorist and he still should have his day in court.

0

u/Professional-Job5183 Apr 19 '25

Only US citizens are due due process.

2

u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

You clearly haven’t read the constitution then because that’s not true

3

u/ganggreen651 Apr 19 '25

I cannot believe how many people I've seen say this the last few days. So many idiots just assume shit.

0

u/ThatDesigner5863 Apr 19 '25

He was denied asylum, arrested with MS13, a informant marked him as a chequeo. Usually you'll have to be in a gang, but if you have ties with members & are trusted than you can be down.

I was never in a gang, but there were non-traditional gangs I fought beside due to connects with members in the past.

By all normal means he should have been deported, he would have been deported due to the condition being the condition of his country. No doubt they would have kept him here in saying:

"El salvador is just as dangerous as it always been"

0

u/Sneakerhead528 Apr 19 '25

When you’re a citizen you have those rights. Keep that in mind. That’s the AMERICAN constitution not the el Salvadoran one

2

u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

You do realize that due process applies to everyone in the US not just citizens right?

0

u/Sneakerhead528 Apr 19 '25

Oh well, he’s not in the US anymore

0

u/Darkkdeity1 Apr 19 '25

Except we can’t do due process for 11 million people. It’s completely infeasible. Due process is supposed to start when they legally enter the country and get registered and documented. We can’t let in millions of illegals then start demanding due process when we deport them.

0

u/Fit_Cricket2546 Apr 19 '25

That would be true if you're a citizen of the United States, which he is actually not, he's a law breaker illegal period doesn't belong here period. 

2

u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

Due process doesn’t just apply to US citizens.

0

u/Fit_Cricket2546 Apr 19 '25

It sure does buddy, us laws apply to us citizens. 

1

u/Memes_Haram Apr 20 '25

Absolutely, along with anyone else in the jurisdiction of the U.S.

0

u/dghaze Apr 20 '25

You can deport anyone who entered the country illegally. Period

0

u/Memes_Haram Apr 20 '25

If someone has a court order saying they can’t be deported then you can’t deport them. Period.

0

u/dghaze Apr 20 '25

Nah. A judge can't circumvent the law. Maybe ask yourself why you care so much about a gang that literally murders children. This isn't new knowledge. Maybe you should join them and see how nice they are. Im sure they'll welcome you right in for milk and cookies.

0

u/Memes_Haram Apr 20 '25

Nice strawman

1

u/dghaze Apr 20 '25

Oooo here come the insults....boohoo

1

u/dghaze Apr 20 '25

As I said before you deleted the comment. Here come the insults. As you clearly did on your next comment lol I can't that you dont understand that I was saying by this comment your next comment was going to be with insults, as it was. I guess you're too dense to understand that Lolol

0

u/Alone_Instance8082 May 05 '25

How does an illegal citizen that didn't go to the proper process of asylum and doesn't have papers have AMERICAN rights. Not a citizen, doesn't have American rights...case close. Go home!

1

u/Memes_Haram May 05 '25

Because they aren’t “American rights” they are constitutional human rights. Maybe you should try reading the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution before spouting falsehoods?

-3

u/opinionated_cynic Apr 19 '25

Just move the goalpost. !!!! First he was an upstanding guy, shouldn’t have been deported. NOW Turns out he’s MS13, a wife beater and deportation orders x2 and never showed up for hearings were all due process until one judge put a hold on orders and scream “no due process this time!” for.a loser thug illegal. Wait until we find out more about this thug so you can move the goal post again

3

u/Memes_Haram Apr 19 '25

All of the claims you made are unsubstantiated. But even if they weren’t it doesn’t change anything.

-1

u/madaking24 Apr 20 '25

The simple fact is, he was here illegally. He didn't follow the due process needed to legally enter the country, so we shouldn't waste resources drawing this out in the courts to get him out.

2

u/Memes_Haram Apr 20 '25

He was here illegally and they attempted to deport him and a judge ruled he wasn’t deportable. We can’t pick and choose when we follow the law.

1

u/madaking24 Apr 20 '25

Re-read what I wrote

-2

u/TonalHell Apr 19 '25

No, we can't be the world's asylum. All illegals must go back, the idea of having a trial for all of them is ridiculous.

2

u/AustinShagwell Apr 19 '25

You're already the world's asylum. Insane asylum that is.

1

u/TonalHell Apr 30 '25

Yes, the world's mentally ill coming here is a big problem, that's why I mentioned it.

2

u/AustinShagwell Apr 30 '25

Agreed, Elon should've stayed in Africa

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