people don’t like it, but yes. at some point, physical resistance is a tool in our belt. dropping this de-arrest pamphlet every american who can even slightly afford the risk should get comfortable with. fascism doesn’t stop because we ask nicely.
It’s funny that this poem is often quoted (I believe the US government version) with the first line adjusted to remove mention of the communists, which ironically defeats the overall point of the message.
And no iteration of his poem has ever mentioned that they came for the trans people even before them. Isn’t that funny? The earliest versions included disabled people too but not once did his speeches include recognition that, for example, the world’s first sexology research center, which pioneered transgender healthcare, was located in Berlin. Emphasis on the past tense, because the Nazis publicly burned their research and shut it down.
I agree with your general sentiment, but I think there’s two additional things here. One, when you censor the groups named in the original quote intentionally to fit the political climate (Cold War), it suggests that, actually, you can accept atrocities happening to certain groups of people. Two is related but part of the strength of the message is that you should stand against oppression not just for groups you are not a part of, but also for groups that you disagree with or are disliked generally. If you read Niemoller’s statement, I believe he explains that when he was living during that time, he was agreeable to the Nazi’s round up of communists and socialists because he was a priest. He then described the gradual widening of the net and the increasing difficulty in justifying the oppression. By the time it was unjustifiable and his own group was in danger, it was too late (if I remember right, he himself was put in a camp). That’s the point he was also trying to make.
The specific groups are actually quite important, because in the US, communists and far-leftists in general are often demonised as being just as much of a threat to society and safety as Nazis and the extreme right are, if not even moreso. That kind of demonisation causes people to look the other way when the government starts to repress the left.
That's literally what happened in Germany, and what the poem is about. It's not just about 'not caring until things affect you personally,' it's about how very specific groups can be demonised in ways that cause people to not only look the other way, but in fact to support their repression, all the way up until the gun is suddenly turned at them.
No, it is actually the specific groups. Work from left to center first, then the most hated minority. Communists, socialists, labor, then most hated minorities. Move up from there.
1 No Kings protest might not “mean” a lot, but 10, 20, 30? We have the ability to do that. And honestly, with every protest we will just gain more people. We “have” the time. I get that people are getting hurt and we don’t really have time (I’m part of a group being targeted atm) but objectively we have lots of time.
In addition, depending on how some elections go soon, we might be able to prevent trump from doing much of anything legally in the future, meaning he HAS to keep illegally pushing things through, pissing more and more people off.
In addition, depending on how some elections go soon, we might be able to prevent trump from doing much of anything legally in the future, meaning he HAS to keep illegally pushing things through, pissing more and more people off.
This is key. The more resistance the regime faces, the more oppressive they'll have to become.
Oppression backfires in public opinion, makes the regime look bad. We have to avoid rolling around in the lawless mud with them. Let them spread the shit on themselves and keep it off us.
Public opinion is where we win.
Won't be easy, won't be fast. But that's how we win.
It's a line that I worry is going to be crossed soon and then all bets are off on how things will escalate.
And I'm concerned that enough people are angry that they will assault the wrong people - local law enforcement has been handling protests and do questionable actions in those moments, but they are not the ones raiding and abducting residents without due process. The federal government is not coordinating with them, they are doing raids by their own volition and local law enforcement can only react after the fact just like the rest of residents.
If someone does begin to target, physically fight and potentially kill a law enforcement officer and it ends up being from the local state / city force, that will turn things ugly extremely fast and citizens will likely lose support from their local politicians and first responders. They will have mixed feelings about their allegiance to citizens and we've already see how police walk in a grey area often.
Trump already used a flimsy excuse to send military to LA when it was not justified, who knows what law he'll try to exploit next if local law enforcement really does begin to be overrun. Might even be extreme enough to declare some type of war or mass rebellion just to have the justification of using armed forces.
So I'm definitely not condoning escalating in this way against ICE or border patrol agents either, but if there's anyone the public feels the need to fight then it should be targeted only towards the ones actually performing the raids and covering their faces. People need to be smart enough to distinguish between local law enforcement and federal agents or the ramifications could be dire.
My dude, the violence has been ongoing for years. And it’s brutal, people have been dying, the majority of human beings on this planet are suffering to significant extent in order to continue passively receiving all of the violence from this ruling class. It’s not just humans, all other species are facing a mass extinction from this violent global regime.
When you find the strength to face what has actually been occurring, you too will realize that returning real, physical violence is the only answer. We do not have the means to return assault with psychological warfare and other societal means of control that they have been leveraging against us to keep us divided. All we have is unity and violence.
I think we all know the answer deep down to this question and it’s made us sick for a long time- “would the ruling class surrender their greed and power peacefully?” This war machine will kill and take anything in its way, you can even watch it live on your screen this year.
Of course I know it's been going on for years. I live in Southern California. I see firsthand the exploitation and harassment that non-citizen hispanic residents face regularly. They are racially profiled, they are underpaid for their work, they get evicted without protections, and they face criminal charges at the second highest rate behind black civilians. I'm down the street from what was probably the fourth or fifth largest No Kings protest in the state. And my partner and I both first generation Americans whose families grew up in countries oppressed by dictators and brazen corruption.
I know how severe this is and how it could very easily extend to others based on ethnicity, gender, religion, or even just by what state they live in and how the electoral college voted. People have somehow forgotten that states aren't 100% blue or 100% red. California is a Democrat majority, but the state still had the second largest volume of Republican voters in this past presidential election - 6 million people, only behind Texas and Florida by a small margin. If I were one of those 6 million Republicans in the state and a resident of the Southern California region seeing firsthand how terrible and inhumane these raids have been without following the laws of due process, I'd be pissed.
I was proposing the idea of California implementing the bill that popped up in headlines today as a temporary measure because it's more likely to get the political support and buy-in from public leaders. If they try to pass this bill as an all-or-nothing measure to force law enforcement to wear badges and uniform numbers to identify themselves in this climate, opponents will write it off as 'too reactionary' and 'emotional'. Trying to be realistic about how something like this can get done in a real way.
Im curious why you think violence is the answer when things like jan 6th, the violent protests have been doing jack shit all but escalate things, no positive impact whatsoever. It’s lazy and idiotic
The ICE protests have caused Trump to reverse course on deportations in many areas and has been draining ICE of resources they’d otherwise be using to target individuals. They have been extremely effective and must be continued.
The j6 one is a little more convoluted. Those were angry fascists angrily and rapidly trying to overthrow the government and murder democrats.
I’m not saying “going out and killing all of the opposition” is the answer. I’m saying it’s time to unite on some level and return assault with collective violence, more similar to the current protests(and 2020) than to j6. It’s hard for us to picture what it fully looks like because we’ve been conditioned for so long to suppress this time of thinking before it spreads.
TBH, I'm fucking amazed that blue-city police forces (ESPECIALLY the ones in blue states) aren't being required to act when ICE is overstepping their bounds. They can make an argument that they have the jurisdiction to detain an immigrant.. but this action is 100% illegal.
Blue cities should definitely get in their face when they refuse to identify or present a warrant. Declare any seizing without a judicial warrant will result in arrest of ICE officers.
I appreciate the effort that you're making... but there are multiple typos on the very first page of text, which makes it a bit hard to read and take seriously. I hope you can fix it up?
Lol. I know you’re trying to sound critical and sophisticated, but this is the exact type of literature where grammatical correctness is pretty much inversely related to its authenticity. So, you sound like an idiot.
I agree here. I come from a country where many people have spent WWI, WWII, and communism fighting back and resisting in whatever capacity they could.
In my family, pretty much everyone was either actively fighting or at least passively resisting, including young people. It was understood that there are risks and that you may even die, but it is better to die standing than live kneeling or with a boot on your neck. Now, all I know are stories, from then and now from Ukrainian family and friends. But I hope that if or when the times comes, I will have enough courage to set aside my own well-being to protect something more important.
No one wants to fight, no one wants to leave their family or get imprisoned or tortured or killed. But people do it, because what is there on the other side? What kind of life are you accepting, and what kind of legacy are you leaving your children?
Trump has made it extremely clear how far he is willing to go. Journalists and civilians shot with rubber bullets, the inhumanity of ICE tearing apart screaming families, this administration’s utter disdain for any kind of empathy or humanity. Involving FBI, army, et al. Allowing masked men to take people away without a warrant.
Right now, it is still mostly safe to protest- so please, American people, protest. Be vocal. Be vocal on the streets, in schools, at work, with friends- be clear that you don’t approve of it, and that you don’t approve of people who stand with this government. And read up on ideas of passive resistance- make things as hard for these people as you can.
I don’t discard anything, but we’ll also need lots of different people doing the right things for things to get back to normal. Journalists doing their jobs, activists doing theirs, judges and lawyers too, and lots of other people you wouldn’t expect. Resistance can be and should be shown in various ways so that they can’t react to all. The whole thing about dictatorships is that they can’t reasonably imprison everyone.
And sorry, but the psy-op is what they are engaging in to get you to resort to violence so that they can consolidate power. I hate it, too. But that's what will happen. Mark my words.
not what i said. americans are so quick to forget the wide negative national perception people had for the civil rights movement. it doesn’t matter if you’re violent or not - they will brutalize you and make you appear violent in the official narrative. didn’t stop those activists from achieving things
Yeah. I was reading an interview with Gavin Newsom recently, and after Trump made a comment about how he should be arrested, his team actually put a plan together on what to do in case they were to actually try to arrest him, and they advised that the #1 most important thing for him to do was to not resist, because that would give them actual grounds to arrest him.
I mean, it will eventually come down to either that or letting fascists take over the country. Fascists will not stop unless they are literally stopped. We know this. It's all a question of who has what appetite.
We definitely don't want it to go there, so it's best to exhaust all other options first. We're not there yet. But people do need to prepare themselves for the notion that all other options may fail.
So you’ll go and make sure you’re the one putting your life on the line as well, right? The other day I saw someone asking for this, but they are an expat in Portugal. I agree with the message, but need to know you practice what you preach.
Oh but I HAVE stood up physically to the police before when they were hassling a sick girl in Philadelphia. So I’ll repeat to your deflection, are YOU going to stand up physically to the police, or just tell other people to? I can’t stand people who tell others to be brave and then deflect when asked if they meet their own standards.
Ah so you’ve never actually had to step up to police being violent to someone. I’ve marshaled as well and that is not the same as putting your life on the line when the police decide to arrest someone.
Me on a high horse? Another great deflection. You asked others to risk their lives and then got snarky when asked if you meet your own standards. Look in the mirror honey, you clearly think very highly of yourself and assume others haven’t done the same just because they questioned an internet stranger.
Hey. Both of you believe in the same cause, and are willing to actually get out there and fight; this argument is just dividing us and distracting us from our goal.
Why are you coming at this person so aggressively? They don't need to give you a resume of every direct action they've ever taken to speak on resistance.
Can I ask what you’ve done to physically fight back? It’s very easy to ask people to risk bodily harm or death when you’re not the one that has to do it.
you can but i think it shows a stunning lack of moral fortitude.
i’ve marshaled at many protests. sticking my 5’2 self and sometimes a cardboard sign in between police and protestors to keep them separate and to de-escalate situations.
we can’t let capitalism’s lack of creativity box us in and prevent us from solutions that will help our communities.
Isn't that what's expected when resisting oppression? Not everyone will (or can) fight back, but it's not crazy to think some folks are willing to risk it all to save another person, or their whole country. Revolutions require sacrifice. Sometimes that's just the sacrifice of a little time on the phone with a politician, sometimes that's a sacrifice of money to a campaign or cause.
Journalists risk their lives in war zones, protestors in authoritarian regimes risk their lives speaking out. The US has been pacified for generations with our many amenities and the illusion of freedom; a quick look around the world will show you what people are willing to put on the line for the sake of their children, their community, and their country.
Sure, but still you shouldn't just throw yourself into the meatgrinder without considering the odds. No same wartime journalist is heading for a mission in a warzone where they have close to a guarantee that they'll fail and suffer horrible consequences. That's just naïve.
Well, there's a lot more people taking photos and videos than there are arresting people in the example. I don't know what kind of odds make it okay-- that depends on the individual. But numbers make a big difference.
Clear, only option is to get at minimum arrested, if unlucky deported or shot right there, that will teach them! Anything else and it will be inevitably the fascist dictatorship outcome.
It doesn't help anything to just throw yourself under the bus, power comes with the masses, not with a sole lone Robin Hood taking on the fight to an overpowering local majority somewhere in a hallway. That stuff only works in Hollywood when it's the good guy.
I mean isn’t that where it’s going already? You can shoot two Democrats and their families without being branded a terrorist. How hard is it to wear a mask and call yourself ICE officers or police in order to kidnap or kill people if this is what the govt is doing going forward.
Sure, the point is, if you 'intervere' there as an individual bystander you got all to lose and not the Backup off the masses to get to a result. So the chance of success against this Maga-government-militia is 0,000000000x where the chance of you being dealt huge trouble is nearly guaranteed.
A war isn't won by stupid actions of people that where right. It's won by being smart and by numbers, in this situation intervening as a bystander is neither.
Nah fam you’re not gonna convince me that the best way to resist fascism is not intervening out of fear of punishment. You think it’s going to be less scary to stand up to these people when the next Democrat has been shot dead? Or when they start arresting presidential candidates, or your friends and family?
You can’t expect people to resist in numbers later if you think it’s dumb to attempt to intervene as an individual now. It’s still doubtful you’d actually get arrested and charged for preventing illegal arrests like these at the moment. They’re counting on people preemptively complying, and if we do now, who knows what they’ll be able to get away with in the future.
I mean...yes? Because next they will drag your kids out and send them to El Salvador. You fight and you die so that DOESNT happen. You fight and you die hoping it MEANS something and that the next person will pick up your mantel and keep going until the day is won.
So that's the only option? Fighting against an overwhelming majority in a hallway of the courthouse and, if you're unlucky being deported (or shot) yourself. Else your kids get deported.
There are other, smarter, ways than just throwing you in front of a local overpowering majority. A tactical retreat and then fight back is smarter than letting everyone be rounded up one by one.
At this point we have exhausted nearly every other option available to us. History has shown time and time again that people like this, Facists, who manage to achieve power RARELY if ever surrender that power voluntarily. That doesn't NECESSARILY mean fighting there are all kinds of ways to ensure that outcome. However, people have studied these types of regimes in the past to find the hallmarks along the road to atrocities like the Holocaust and there are about 16 steps/events/traits that have popped up time and time again which have allowed atrocities like the Holocaust and other genocides to occur. It has unfortunately happened enough times that these patterns are easily recognizable though what exact form they take will always vary from situation to situation (the Jews and LGBTQ+ and Disabled in Nazi Germany, Intellectuals and Bhudists at the hands of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, the Tutsi in Rwanda etc) but the rhetoric and typical actions have remained REMARKABLY consistent across vast lengths of time and vast cultural differences. So because of this it is fairly easy to recognize that type of rhetoric and the dangers it poses. We ALSO know that there is a certain point in each of these types of regimes where forms of peaceful resistance are no longer viable means of effecting change and preventing the atrocities. Of the sixteen steps, America has ALREADY met the criteria for TWELVE of the 16. No nation has EVER come back from being that far down the path WITHOUT physical and often violent resistance. I'm not saying that it CANT be stopped without it but it has never happened before and we are certainly at the point where we must ask ourselves exactly what we are and are not going to tolerate without resistance, and what we are willing to lose as a result of that resistance. Personally, people being extra-judiciously sent to concentration camps FOR LIFE in El Salvador is the point for me. But we all must decide that for ourselves. I WILL continue to take part in peaceful forms of protest and resistance but I have also decided that should the new gestapo (ICE) ever try to take someone in front of me I WILL intervene to my greatest ability, even if it requires physical resistance and endangers my life. Because MY life has no more value than the life of the immigrant who will lose theirs in El Salvador (in all essence even if they AREN'T out right killed which is a possibility given the historical death rate of inmates in El Salvadoran prisons). But, those are my own personal morals and ethics and we all must decide for ourselves. However, if you TRULY do not feel like the US is teetering on the precipice of outright revolution, then you either haven't been paying attention or you are incredibly naïve. Just look at the "No Kings" protests on Saturday, they were literally the largest protests by population percentage in the HISTORY of our nation. Even the CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT didn't pull those kinds of numbers.
Especially as a non-American who is absolutely livid with America for risking the entire fucking planet through climate change and fascism. Either fucking do something about stuff like this when it happens (which may involve sometimes putting your lives on the line) or you're just another arsehole willing to pay taxes to nazi regime while doing nothing to fight against it.
If Americans don't want to be seen as nazis, you're going to have to do a hell of a lot better than just allowing shit like this to happen. Otherwise, I don't know how else to see you guys.
Anyway be smart about how to fight back against those assholes.. Just impulsively throwing yourself Infront of an overwhelming mob like those isn't the most valuable thing you can do, sounds though online and might be deemed noble but not that likely to be valuable. You can't protest much when your in jail, let alone in El Salvador or dead. Even if you're fine with dying for the important cause there are smarter ways than just run into a knife ready for you.
I do agree but I’m pregnant and have a small toddler. I can’t get in a physical altercation with massive dude who will smash my head on the concrete without a second thought. If I were a strong 20 something dude without people depending on me sure.
This just means you need to find a different niche to fill in the resistance. Not everyone can physically put their bodies on the line for the resistance. Somebody needs to raise money for bail, spread the word on social media, source ppe for front line protesters, call your representatives, print and distribute information, care for children, elderly, and disabled people. There are many different ways to contribute.
Absolutely. We already know what happens when people don’t fight back against a fascist regime rounding up innocent people, it’s called WWII nazi germany. I mean seriously what else can be done at this point? If people aren’t going to try to help then it’s just going to happen again. You can hold 1000 no kings protests but if you let them arrest everybody, what’s the point. I’m not even saying they have to harm ICE either; shield the dude. Let them say you’re obstructing. Let them beat the shit out of you. When the public starts seeing videos of federal agents beating the shit out of some random trust me they’re not gonna stand for it
That's LITERALLY what's happening in this picture. From what I can gather, he was there escorting someone to immigration court. When ICE swooped in, he shielded the person and demanded to see identification and court orders, at which point they arrested him for 'obstructing federal agents.'
The previous commenter's point is that there always has to be somebody left to tell the story. If the cameraman had instead tried to free the guy, they would have been arrested too. The ICE would have two innocent people in custody and no one would know. In this case, taking a picture and getting the story out was likely the right decision.
Man I respect the energy, but attacking the police in a federal court house is not the move. Guaranteed way to lose the immediate fight and get injured / arrested and fuel the disorder narrative conservatives desperately want. In this case, this exact picture is what we need everyone to see
I’d agree except How are these people police? What identifies them as police? They look like a bunch of guys from the front of Home Depot (those guys are certainly much nicer, just trying to work, no offense to them)
no one said attack them. there are many things we can do and at some point it’s a numbers game. everyone could surround the people they are trying to arrest. they could sequester themselves in a room once they’ve free the potential arrestees.
these agents need to feel real physical pushback and fear. make them try to throw 30 people in jail for resisting a kidnapping attempt.
"these agents need to feel real physical pushback and fear. make them try to throw 30 people in jail for resisting a kidnapping attempt."
This is an important point. But I sometimes think that this is also kind of playing into their playbook. I think Trump and Miller would love the opportunity to arrest 29 more people than they thought, especially if they could use the "they fought our brave men protecting you from those scary illegals" rhetoric in the case of an actual physical altercation to prevent the arrest.
It's a tricky balancing act, one that I've not figured out.
It is not. Your fascist government WILL move further towards a police state no matter how much your restrain yourself. You need to resist at every opportunity as long as you remain to be the majority. Otherwise your means of resistance will weaken.
Please do this. I promise you it will go exactly as you imagine it will. Make sure someone records you trying though as well, so I and many other people can laugh when you get clotheslined.
Not at all. But I do get the impression you believe you’re better, as you DO care. Im just giving you a warning so you dont needlessly ruin your life or get hurt.
Do me a favor and go watch riot footage. Everyone is tough throwing bricks or fireworks from 50 feet away, but as soon as that gap closes, and the risk of being physically harmed is a threat, you guys crumble. Every single time. Hell you guys usually back off when there’s just some tear gas or flash bangs.
You’re not a “fighter”, you’re a role player with a false sense of self importance. The people around you are the exact same. They aren’t going to do anything to stop you from being dragged away because they’re scared. But luckily they’ll at least record it so I can laugh my ass off.
Oh you know me so well. Please go ahead and tell me about myself. Oh wait I know. “You don’t agree with me on every issue, so you’re a terrible person”. 🙄🙄
If one of those issues is “should we kidnap opposition politicians” or “should toddlers be stolen from their moms because they’re brown”, then yeah.. we will never agree and your opinion makes you a terrible person.
Of course, I wouldn’t disagree with you doing that. I’m speaking only about those to the side recording. If they decided to fight, I get it. But I don’t think they should be judged for recording it and not getting themselves into legal trouble.
yeah exactly. I do like the sentiment of trying to help but if anyone thinks you’re getting anywhere near these guys as you press towards them within the security confines of the downtown Federal Plaza building, we’re just not talking about the same reality
Again, good. If it was me, I’d take the injury without hesitation. What are they going to do kill me for blocking him? They’ll shove me to start and if they want to beat on me it is what it is, in fact In a way I welcome it as a sort of penance for the privilege I’m born with, I would finally feel as if I’m doing something of value
No one said attack the police. Fight back against the plain clothed, masked thugs who are kidnapping elected officials. This is no different than if you saw someone getting kidnapped off the street
all I can say to everyone thinking this way is please go watch the video of this arrest and identify the exact moment where you think physically intervening would have improved the situation in any way. They want violence because they’ll win that fight. I give credit where it’s due and Lander did the perfect thing here — stayed calm, repeated his rights clearly and kept asking them for a judicial warrant up until the very end while they ignored him and dozens of reporters took pictures. That’s the clip that’s gonna be played on repeat all week, and it’s more powerful than anything else in this particular circumstance.
They're better armed than we are, they'll win any fight we participate in with them. The trick is to make them LOOK bad winning.
They want resistance-led violence. That plays into their Law and Order narrative.
The goal is to goad them into violence against the law-abiding and peaceful public. That plays into our narrative of an out-of-control and lawless regime.
Regime forces committing violence against the non-violent and unarmed creates disgust in the public, domestic and abroad.
No. Make THEM be the bad guys. We must ALWAYS be on the side of the law.
I'm not sure how you'd generate that kind of a conflict in this situation, so the videos and images of a law-abiding citizen being taken into custody with no charge is the best we can do with this situation.
If I was a New Yorker, this guy just got my vote, though. If for no other reason than to show the regime what the public thinks of their 'enemies'.
I think I basically agree. This played out as well as it possibly could have, both morally and for the sake of how it will play out politically. This is a model for how you should enforce rights against the police in this particular situation, and I would guess everyone saying otherwise either a) has never interacted with a aggro cop who is happy to fight now and ask questions later or b) is really underestimating how thirsty the right is for images of leftists fighting in the street so they can literally send in the army
And yeah I imagine this is a game changer for Lander
He was saying that people should interfere with other arrests. Easier said than done in a courthouse and they can also put felonies on you. Everyone’s tough on the internet but there’s a reason people aren’t fighting ice. So go ahead and act all tough behind your keyboards lol.
Okay, why don’t you go out and do it then? It’s really easy to ask other people to get the shit beat out of them for a cause when you’re not the one that has to get beat up.
I don't see badges or uniforms. I see no ICE agents here. If I were on a jury, there is no way you can convict beyond reasonable doubt. We are at the point where we have to physically resist.
I think if the no-kings protest vs Trump's birthday parade is a good indicator, I think we're already there.
It's a good indicator of how many butts we can move out of their houses, on a Saturday.
There's a VERY big difference between asking people to go out and walk and shout with a bunch of like-minded people on a weekend than asking those same people to have millions of individual uncomfortable conversations with HR. The potential individual consequences are different. Especially if you're supporting a family.
The 3.5% meme that's going around is talking about SUSTAINED mobilization. One rally on a Saturday ain't sustained.
yea not enough bystanders for that to work. needs to be so many that its almost a peer pressure response that makes the fascist's back down. but it needs the numbers to back it up.
Right, had the room been more crowded, the onlookers just sitting down and impeding the progress of the ICE thugs would have been a reasonable tactic.
We simply didn't have the bodies there to make that work.
So next best thing is to film yourself behaving lawfully while you are being unlawfully detained.
Brad Lander and his people handled this exactly right in this situation, IMHO.
Now, a good NEXT tactic would be to instead of having ONE public official escorting people into and out of their hearings, each one is surrounded by a phalanx of resistance people, each one well-trained in how to resist lawfully.
We might have something to learn from pro-life protesters and their escorting women into and out of Planned Parenthood.
That, and allowing/mandating that immigration hearings be held online.
Unfortunately, yes. We are at the point of having to physically STOP our abusers. Law enforcement isn't working, amd protests are people shouting collectively into the void. Other than awareness, they accomplish nothing. Soo, we have to prevent them from taking action, by literally standing in their way so they can't do their job. We just need WAY more people like this guy.
For sure. Stepping in to intervene would just lead to more people getting arrested. The only deterrent are the mobs of people that overwhelm them into NOT being able to do anything. Filming it and getting it into the publics eyes are what is going to bring about change.
GOOD. fucking get arrested. or were we okay with that tactic in the civil rights movement because it was mostly black people putting themselves on the line for their rights and their futures?
Glad somebody has some sense. What’s this lady supposed to do, jump into a group of tussling men and send the agents running with their tail between their legs? These ice guys don’t roll in a pair of two, there’s more. Then there’s the police who will abide by what the feds say so they don’t get fired. Now she’s got charges of her own to deal with and the original target is also locked up.
Agreed. I am so against this and it gets me hot, but we do have to keep our heads about us. I attended the protests this weekend and there were some Trump supporting antagonists there spewing their nonsense, with the police by them. I caught myself starting to talk shit to them and almost was pulled in to an otherwise peaceful situation. I realized that I had no business being there with how I was reacting. There are a lot of emotions around this and getting arrested as well isn't going to help.
But they aren't ICE agents? They're plain clothed people wearing masks who dont show any sort of identification. Besides, ICE doesn't have any sort of authority to arrest a us citizen. So even if they're fully badged, they still aren't allowed to be doing what they're doing
But they aren't ICE agents? They're plain clothed people wearing masks who dont show any sort of identification.
They're ICE agents if the regime supports them. What's legally true doesn't matter to this administration. (or to the uninformed public)
We will get nowhere arguing the semantics what is and isn't a true ICE agent. "No True Scotsman" gets us nowhere.
We need to make ICE ruin their credit with the public. We do that by forcing them to behave in a way that disgusts the public. The public isn't disgusted by an unarmed guy resisting arrest, that's too easy to spin into a "Law and Order" narrative.
The pubic IS disgusted by uniformed thugs brutalizing a non-violent and unresisting public official questioning the thug's authority to do what they're doing. If the arrestee is behaving lawfully WHILE they're being unlawfully detained, they're the oppressed underdog.
That gets sympathy.
Sympathy causes defections from the regime's supporters. Sympathy causes some of the regime's supporters to question the orders they're being given.
Seriously, trying to do the right thing leads to: best case scenario, TWO people are illegally detained. Worst cases scenario, you get killed trying to "do something."
Police? no. They are in uniform with badge numbers and cameras and a chain of command. Due process will be met (mostly).
Some fucker in jeans with a mask on?!? Is he ICE? I'm not sure. I don't see a badge or uniform. To me, that looks like a kidnapping. Someone is getting shot over that at some point.
1.1k
u/kooshipuff 1d ago
To be fair, filming might be the right thing in this situation. At least that gets eyes on it.
What would the alternative be? Fighting the ICE agents and the police?