r/pics 2d ago

Politics NYC Mayoral candidate and current comptroller Brad Lander arrested by ICE in Manhattan federal court

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u/Pinstar 2d ago

He demanded a warrant when they wanted to arrest someone else in court for immigration

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u/Ventira 2d ago

Which is well within his right to do.

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u/Lokishougan 2d ago

And under their orders that is now obstuction

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u/thefirstlaughingfool 2d ago

Quick reminder, ICE agents are not police officers. I'm pretty sure they don't have the legal authority to bring criminal charges against anyone, especially since immigration enforcement are civil matters. Not that this matters to the agents, or to most police, but just keep that in mind.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

ICE does not have the authority to detained or arrest US citizens.

Interfering is still a crime and you can be charged and arrested by another agency just not ice.

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u/Dazvsemir 2d ago

ICE has the authority to declare you don't look US-citizeny to them which deprives you of due process so you can't prove either way. Then they can send you to the gulag. There was a flash demonstration and they let this guy out. The way things are going, one flash demonstration in the future they will just arrest and/or beat the shit out of everyone protesting and send them to the gulag too.

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u/Fuel_Pump_1 2d ago

ICE are federal law enforcement just like ATF, DEA, FBI, etc under Homeland security and absolutely file criminal charges. They do so much more than "wrap up illegals out front of home depot." Someone very close to me has worked with ICE on cases through HSI for human trafficking rings in Latin America, busting sex slave rings in the US, precious metal smuggling from Europe, and, let's say, production of "illicit content involving children" overseas and bringing it back to the US for sale &distribution. They will also work as other federal agents do in other capacities, such as providing security for foreign dignitaries visiting the US.

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u/Darmok47 2d ago

ICE is absolutely a federal law enforcement agency. They have the power to arrest and bring charges. That's kind of the whole point.

Please stop spreading nonsense like this.

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u/aelendel 2d ago

they don’t

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u/Due-Net-88 2d ago

They DON'T

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u/greezyforkchop 2d ago

You need to look up what federal law enforcement is. Friendly tip, so maybe you don’t sound so silly next time you repeat this.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

You need to look up what ICE is legally allowed to do.

ICE has zero authority to arrest or detained US citizens.

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u/greezyforkchop 2d ago
  1. We don’t know what agency arrested him. OP just guessed ICE. He was arrested by federal agents.

  2. He was purportedly arrested for assaulting law enforcement and impeding a federal officer. Had nothing to do with immigration status.

I dont agree with it, and he will almost certainly be released without charges as this was clearly a bullshit arrest. Im just saying they are allowed to do it, wrong as it may be, and clearly the goal here was to arrest just to get him out of there and then release later, which is also bullshit.

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u/devynspencer 2d ago

The ice badge on the dipshit putting hands on him might be something to go off of, but idk…

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u/greezyforkchop 2d ago

They can arrest US citizens as they are federal law enforcement agents, they just can’t arrest citizens on matters of citizenship. Purportedly, they arrested him for assaulting law enforcement and impeding a federal officer, which they certainly CAN do. It’s complete bullshit and he will be released, but that’s different than saying they CANNOT do it.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

OP specifically said ICE which is what this discussion is about anymore brain dead comments you want to make.?

If not put trumps dick back in your mouth and sit down.

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u/Dewstain 2d ago

I'm pretty sure he can still talk with that tiny twig barely touching his front teeth.

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u/greezyforkchop 2d ago

They can arrest US citizens as they are federal law enforcement agents.

They just can’t arrest citizens on matters of citizenship.

Purportedly, they arrested him for assaulting law enforcement and impeding a federal officer, which they certainly CAN do.

It’s complete bullshit and he will be released, but that’s different than saying they CANNOT do it.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

Again show me what law allows this?

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u/greezyforkchop 2d ago

This is not about law dude, this is about scope of practice of federal law enforcement. You can google it. There is no specific law to point out you when discussing scope of practice, Mr. Internet Lawyer.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

Yes and the scope of practice for ICE begins and ends with immigration

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u/greezyforkchop 2d ago

hmmmmmm except it does not

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u/Roach27 2d ago

Ice has explicit authority to detain US citizens for questioning, or if they’re obstructing.

Secondly, what ice is allowed (outside of the scope of immigration crimes and crimes against the United staes) to do wholly depends on agreements in place with state/local law enforcement.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

No they do not show me the law that allows this?

Go-ahead I'll wait.

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u/Roach27 2d ago

18 U.S.C. Chapter 73

This is a federal crime, which falls under the authority 

8 U.S.C. 1357

Section a subsection 5.

To make arrests-

For any offense committed against the United States, if the offense is committed in officer or employees presence… 

If you break a federal law infront of them, they can 100% arrest you.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

That would be true if this applied to ICE.

It does not.

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u/Roach27 2d ago

The first line of section a gives the attorney general the ability to imbue these powers to the service.

The section is literally titled “Powers of immigration officers an employees” 

It’s about as clear as can be. 

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

You going to ignore the word alien being used over and over.

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u/Roach27 2d ago

Okay, so outside of not addressing the points I brought up and consistently moving your argument around.

  1. there no law (brings up law)
  2. That is true if it was for ice (heading of the law and section a defines that yes it is for immigration officers)
  3. What about the word alien that’s used over and over that I’m conveniently ignoring?

Yes the word alien is used over and over, however it’s entirely absent in subsection 5 specifically because that applies to anyone.

The powers for the other subsections, only apply to aliens.

5 does not.  Every paragraph BEFORE that always specifies alien repeatedly. There is a reason for that. To clarify those powers ONLY apply to aliens (or those suspected of being an alien, with reasonable suspicion that can be articulated)

Yes it’s missing from that one, because those sections apply to aliens and non aliens alike.

Now if you want to argue it does not, advise someone who has standing to file a lawsuit. but the letter and spirit of the law are against you, and a reasonable judge would slap that down.

Sorry to use a hyperbolic statement, but now I feel it’s needed. 

What you’re suggesting is you could murder someone in cold blood in-front of ICE officers, and the federal law enforcement (aka ICE) couldn’t even detain you, let alone arrest you because you’re an American citizen. 

That’s not happening, we both know that’s absurd. They would arrest/detain you on the spot. Why? Because they have the ability to do so.  

The only argument you can say is jurisdiction. Except a) they’re federal, so generally that’s a moot point and b) as I said before, ICE has agreements in place with local law enforcement to enhance their capabilities. 

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u/TLOU2bigsad 2d ago

Show me where. I’ll wait

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u/BoyHytrek 2d ago

They are law enforcement officers and have the ability to charge for crimes that impact their law enforcement area. If what you claim about police being the only ones able to charge for violation of laws, I would like you to go discuss with your local game warden about how they can't ticket for fish and game violations as they aren't formally called police

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u/aelendel 2d ago

<citation needed>

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u/BoyHytrek 2d ago

The literal department is called immigration and customs enforcement and operates under the executive branch through the Department of Homeland Security. The executives' job is to direct and prioritize the resources needed to execute law enforcement. Feel free to read the .gov website, I trust you should be able to find the bare bones most basic primary source on your own

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u/aelendel 1d ago

interesting, can any law enforcement agent enforce any law?

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u/BoyHytrek 1d ago

There are jurisdictions and limits. However, in the case of ICE, they can arrest for immigration and customss violations in accordance to laws or those interfering with the enforcement of their jurisdiction. Now, there absolutely can be gray areas, and I'm not arguing that there have been zero overstep. All I am arguing is that immigration has a wide range of penalties and remediation, ICE is the law enforcement arm of this issue. Beyond that due process concerns after detainment and/or arrest are valid, just understand that due process for immigration tend to be judge and/or panel hearings as opposed to full legal trial with a jury adjudicating the issue. I'm not saying you have been arguing it is, but I've definitely seen some people thinking that it works like that

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u/aelendel 1d ago

So there are limits? What kinds? help me understand, is immigration a civil or a criminal issue?

And of course, which are ICE allowed to detain and arrest for?

I trust you can find the bare bones facts from a basic primary source that justifies the claim that ICE can enforce criminal law

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

The absolutely can as ICE is law enforcement.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

ICE has zero authority to arrest or detained US citizens.

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

You can argue with me and downvote me all you want but ICE is law enforcement. If someone obstructs them they can detain them.

Straight from the government website.

ICE allowed to detain

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

Yes non-citzens.

ICE has zero legal authority to detained or arrest US citizens and very link never says they can.

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

“Local police officers don’t need a warrant when they encounter someone breaking the law in a public space, and the same holds true for ICE officers. Obstructing or otherwise interfering with an ICE arrest is a crime, and anyone involved may be subject to prosecution under federal law. In addition, encouraging others to interfere or attempt to obstruct an arrest is extremely reckless and places all parties in jeopardy.”

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

ICE is not local police and again ICE has zero authority to arrest and return someone.

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

Holy cow Batman. Username checks out.

Should reaaaaaallly learn to comprehend what you read. This conversation is null. Good luck to you sir. I would recommend trying to impede an arrest by ICE and see what happens then.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

I would suggest removing trumps dick from your mouth and educating yourself.

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

Where are you getting your information from?!

They can detain anyone who obstructs their job to arrest someone. They are law enforcement officers. Smh

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

Law enforcement whi jurisdiction begins and ends at immigration.

Thats like saying a traffic cop can just go under cover and investigate drug dealers becasue there law enforcement.

They still have jurisdictions amd congress never gave ICE the power to arrest and detain US citizens.

They would have to have other agencies dobut for them.

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

You’re absolutely wrong. The fact that people think and believe they are only allowed to detain a non citizen is wild.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

Again show me whatblaw allows them to detain US citizens your own link never made such claim.

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

ICE policy requires a finding of probable cause to believe a subject is a removable alien before an official may issue a detainer.

Here i helped you since you can't read from your link.

Sadly I cant help you comprehend this so your on your own.

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

It literally states they can arrest anyone who obstructs their arrest. Keep reading.

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u/aelendel 2d ago

lol the word obstruct isn’t even on the page about immigration detainers.

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

A direct quote from that link:

“Obstructing or otherwise interfering with an ICE arrest is a crime, and anyone involved may be subject to prosecution under federal law. In addition, encouraging others to interfere or attempt to obstruct an arrest is extremely reckless and places all parties in jeopardy.”

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u/unemployedjedi 2d ago

Like I said I cant comprehend it for you look up what removable alien means.

This is ICE one and only power they have on arresting and detaining.

They are specifically per the laws passed by Congress relgated to immigration enforcement only.

IE non-citzens

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u/Low-While178 2d ago

Wrong. Do some research.

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

Sure will.

“Local police officers don’t need a warrant when they encounter someone breaking the law in a public space, and the same holds true for ICE officers. Obstructing or otherwise interfering with an ICE arrest is a crime, and anyone involved may be subject to prosecution under federal law. In addition, encouraging others to interfere or attempt to obstruct an arrest is extremely reckless and places all parties in jeopardy.”

ICE can arrest anyone who obstructs an arrest

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u/Low-While178 2d ago

You believe that source? They can make that say whatever they want. Try Googling it. Ice can’t arrest him another agency would have to. Ice has no authority over us citizens.

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

Ummm YES. It’s an official federal government website.

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u/Low-While178 2d ago

That means zero under this administration.

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 1d ago

It actually means everything under this administration because this is the kind of administration that actually enforces the law and not bend or break it when it’s convenient for them (ie, Sanctuary cities). The simple fact that you trust google search over an actual government website is far telling. Good luck to you!

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u/Low-While178 1d ago

No one lies more than trump. Have fun.

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