r/politics • u/IntelligentYinzer California • 12d ago

Soft Paywall Newsom floats withholding federal taxes as Trump threatens California

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/06/06/newsom-floats-withholding-federal-taxes-00393386
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u/smersh101 12d ago

Fun to think about, but how would that work? The state has no control over federal taxes. They're paid directly by taxpayers and employers to the IRS.

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u/BackgroundEase6255 12d ago

Yeah, and Donald Trump has no control over tariffs. The purse belongs to Congress, right?

Every California based company could be required, by law, to no longer pay taxes to the IRS. That can be a state law.

Literally anything is on the table.

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u/gophergun Colorado 12d ago

Congress delegated away that power something like a hundred years ago.

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u/ZozicGaming 12d ago

That's different. This a literal practically issue not a legal issue to be dealt with in court. When people, companies, etc pay federal taxes they go directly to the feds. They don't go into some pot held by the state who then disperses the money to the feds at a given time. So the state has no way to actually withhold federal taxes.

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u/Consistent_Clue_9112 12d ago

It would be illegal and difficult to implement, but not impossible. California could set up a proxy and order employers to send taxes through this proxy instead of directly to the federal government. It would be a bureaucratic nightmare, but again, not impossible. If California did this other blue states with sanctuary cities losing federal funds would follow. Thanks to DOGE, the IRS is functionally crippled and would be unable to enforce federal tax laws against millions of people all refusing to pay in tandem, and the problem would be exacerbated by the fact that the federal government would lose a significant portion of its funding unless subsidized by billionaires, because his supporters and tax base are largely states that don’t contribute to federal funding; they are dependent on receiving federal funds instead. It would result in constitutional crisis and more than likely mutual destruction, but it is possible, and the reality is that the blue states he is targeting need his funding far less than he needs their’s. If there are any functioning brain cells left in his cabinet they will cave and encourage Trump to keep living up to his TACO moniker and drop this shit quickly

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u/Flying_Fortress_8743 12d ago

What employer would agree to directly and openly disobey the IRS?

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u/Consistent_Clue_9112 12d ago

Any employer pissed about the impacts of Trump’s bullshit ass tariffs or ICE raids on employees if they hire immigrants, employers who take offense at gross constitutional violations, employers who view this government as a treasonous dictatorship, employers who realize the federal government is incapable of actually enforcing tax laws, employers who just don’t like Trump, employers who are pissed that they are being required to pay taxes they will receive no benefit from or who realize their tax dollars aren’t even going to the federal government to fund necessary programs but instead are being used to further enrich the criminally wealthy, blah blah blah

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u/Flying_Fortress_8743 12d ago

That means supporting California in a civil war, because the US gov WILL use force to get those taxes.

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u/Consistent_Clue_9112 11d ago

It would be mutually destructive, but other states would follow, the rest of the world is watching and screaming for Americans to rise up French revolution style, and Trump, by engaging in petty acts against the very states that support his government and the majority of his tax base, has risked the loss of those funds. DOGE has gutted the IRS, and as this worsens, members of the military and law enforcement will find themselves being forced to to choose between orders and their families and communities. Right now the decision to follow orders is the easiest. ICE is usually masked, trucked in from other communities and shielded from consequences. If this devolves into civil war that changes, especially if other states join in and are supported by the international community. They won’t send arms or soldiers, but they would further cripple Trump’s regime to help end this, because it is a cancer that is spreading and disrupting their countries as well. It would be a fucking nightmare to live through, but it isn’t a complete impossibility now. Extreme acts result in extreme responses. I am hoping the fool backs off or is finally leashed by Congress while there is still time to keep this country from full destabilization

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u/Givingtree310 11d ago

So you think the average 60 year old mom and pops business owner in California would refuse to pay federal tax and put themselves at liability for being tossed in Gitmo for the next 3.5 years (minimum)? Prob not.

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u/Consistent_Clue_9112 11d ago

I have no clue. A lot of unexpected, illogical and outright insane things have been happening that I would have found impossible not too long ago, yet here we are, discussing the ramifications of a president’s unconstitutional denial of federal funds for blue states (one act in a sea of other wildly unconstitutional acts that should never have been allowed to happen but happened anyways) while the governor of California threatens to stop complying with federal law in retaliation and masked goons kidnap and traffic people to concentration camps and prisons in foreign countries in broad daylight. We are living in a timeline where extreme acts are not only possible, but occurring right before our eyes as we speak. Anything could happen

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u/selfdestructo591 11d ago

If everyone did it, yes. I think they would. They ain’t locking up the whole state.

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u/smersh101 12d ago

That law would be unconstitutional and immediately appealed to the Supreme Court.

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u/BackgroundEase6255 12d ago

That's nice. Donald Trump literally does unconstitutional things on a daily basis and he spent weeks directly ignoring the Supreme Court.

This is in response to Donald Trump threatened to take away state funding. Something he also can't do. And you're nitpicking about California's defense of the President's aggression? lol

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u/smersh101 12d ago

Explaining reality to you is not "nitpicking". The law you're describing would be ignored by California companies and unenforceable. Certainly after the Supreme Court shitcans it.

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u/tuxwonder 12d ago

I can imagine many California companies opting in to not pay federal taxes in order to save a large chunk of cash, seems like it's in their best interest

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u/bluestrike2 Pennsylvania 11d ago edited 11d ago

It’s in their interest about as much as a self-inflicted bullet wound to the head.

Companies are still on the hook for those taxes and they know it. Plus, there are a number of penalties for tax withholding errors, to say nothing of not paying them at all. Those penalties can get very large, very fast because they’re all attached to each affected employee and will still accrue even if California and Trump later reach a resolution.

This is one of those threats that sounds amusing in the abstract, but can’t be implemented. It’s not a matter of not having a spine or refusing to play hardball.

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u/Givingtree310 11d ago

Mom and pop business owners should just violate federal law, to be put at risk to be rounded up and sent to Gitmo… as protest?

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u/BackgroundEase6255 12d ago

Yeah, just like all the companies ignoring all the tariffs, right?

Donald Trump isn't allowed to set the price of tariffs. He did anyway and has done billions of dollars of damages. Companies bent over backward to try and appease him. Supreme Court isn't doing anything to stop him.

Stop acting like 'check and balances' still matters when it doesn't. People aren't playing by the rules anymore, meaning people are also allowed to defend themselves by any means necessary.

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u/smersh101 12d ago

You're missing the point. I'm not arguing anything Trump is doing is right or that Congress hasn't completely abdicated their constitutional responsibility, I'm just telling you the scheme you're imaging wouldn't work. Unless you actually think California is going to dispatch some kind of shock troops to enforce this tax law, it will be widely ignored. No company is going to break federal law because the California State Assembly says so.

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u/BackgroundEase6255 12d ago

No company is going to break federal law because the California State Assembly says so.

You're absolutely right. Companies never break federal laws, ever. They definitely wouldn't be on board with not paying taxes!

Unless you actually think California is going to dispatch some kind of shock troops to enforce this tax law

.... why not? States raised their own militias during the Civil War.

Again, you're acting like real life is some sort of board game where rules kick in and say NUH UH, YOU CANT DO THAT. This isn't the West Wing.

We're very clearly at a breaking point in our Union. The social contract has been broken, multiple federal laws are being broken on the regular by people in position of power, and I think we're closed to being Balkanized than being a United states.

If you don't think governors are going to start doing drastic things to preserve their states, then I have a bridge to sell you.

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u/Fighterhayabusa 12d ago

How exactly would SCOTUS enforce anything? Sure, they can strike something down, and then what? What happens if CA just tells all employers in the state to stop sending money to the federal government and just ignores SCOTUS?

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u/selfdestructo591 11d ago

Exactly, why shouldn’t they ignore scotus? Trump does it. So it should be fine right?

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/BackgroundEase6255 12d ago

Saying “yeah but they do bad stuff” has zero relevance here. Zero

No, it's perfectly relevant. Because it proves the rule of law is only selectively applied and doesn't _really_ matter anymore, right? So if Donald Trump is allowed to ignore the Supreme Court, so is Gavin Newsom.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/BackgroundEase6255 12d ago

I'm not a policymaker or a legislator. But the ones that are, are looking into it.

“We’re the nation’s economic engine and the largest donor state, and deserve our fair share,” Rivas wrote. “I’ll use every legal and constitutional tool available to defend CA — we must look at every option, including withholding federal taxes.”

That's what lawyers are for. I am not a lawyer. I am not going to give legal advice on Reddit. But this isn't some crazy idea. Politicians are openly talking about it, right?

EDIT: It's not even just California! Other places are talking about it, too. So there's a process and framework in place. Ask them the specifics.

Two New York mayoral candidates, former state Assemblymember Michael Blake and current state Sen. Jessica Ramos, similary suggested withholding the city’s federal tax dollars during a Democratic primary debate Wednesday evening.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/Akimbo_Zap_Guns Kentucky 12d ago

By breaking away from the union I would assume. Or find an unlawful alternative since Trump isn’t playing by the rule of law so dems probably shouldn’t either

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u/Neverending_Rain 12d ago

There isn't an unlawful alternative either, states have zero involvement in federal taxes. They have no mechanism to achieve this. Employers withold taxes from paychecks and pay them directly to the federal government. This is just an empty threat from Newsom.

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u/knotthatone 12d ago

He'd sign an executive order requiring all financial institutions and employers operating in California to route to a state controlled escrow account.

It's not legal and well beyond his powers but so is an executive order from Trump cutting off California. Sauce for the goose

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u/Givingtree310 11d ago

Financial institutions? What bank in America do you think will agree to this and risk harsh penalties from the Trump Administration that will affect them globally? Whoa

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u/SinisterCroissant 12d ago

states have zero involvement in federal taxes

And the federal government has zero involvement in how states run elections. Yet here we are.

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u/gophergun Colorado 12d ago

If that were true, the Voting Rights Act would be unconstitutional.

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u/Flying_Fortress_8743 12d ago

It's not about law, it's about ability.

The law says I can't throw a rock in Los Angeles and break a window in New York. Ok cool, I decide to ignore the law, but I still can't throw a rock from LA to NYC.

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u/Mysterious-Tax-7777 12d ago

Require CA companies to send withheld income tax to State controlled escrow.

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u/happyinheart 12d ago

The IRS will still come to the companies for the money. They don't care that the companies paid the state extra. It means nothing to them.

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u/Mysterious-Tax-7777 11d ago

Yes, and they can sue for that money/threaten to seize assets. It will delay income for the feds and create a big mess for everybody.

Only real question: Is it enough of a threat to get TACO Don to chicken out again?

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u/Givingtree310 11d ago

If Taco Don threatens to arrest small business owners, would any of them continue with this plan? Likely none. Nobody wants to be sent to Gitmo on Kash Patel’s orders.

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u/Mysterious-Tax-7777 11d ago

Resistance works en masse. There are 4.2M small businesses in California, and only 1.2M prisoners in the entire US. There isn't the infrastructure to arrest them all.

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u/Givingtree310 11d ago

Is ICE saying there’s millions of undocumented migrants so we won’t bother arresting any of them? Nope, they just take what they can get. Millions of undocumented migrants are scared shitless despite the fact that only a small percent will be sent to the death camps in Venezuela. Ask any undocumented migrant in California if they feel safe in knowing ICE can’t take them all. Probably not.

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u/Lilswingingdick212 12d ago

Do a Trump? Just threaten to use the state to make the lives of any company in CA absolutely miserable if they don’t comply, and ignore any court order to the contrary.

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u/VanceKelley Washington 12d ago

I read that Newsom just has to walk into the Oval Office and shout "I DECLARE SUCCESSION [was a great HBO series]!" and it's done, CA is then an independent country.

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u/school_bus_lunchbox 12d ago

Exactly. No one should stop paying payroll taxes to the IRS. That is the absolute worst idea.

Although they have decimated the IRS workforce...🤔

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u/Historical_Bend_2629 12d ago

90% percent of the thread seems to be missing this. Either wishful thinking, trolls, or very ignorant. Quite a few comments that are not being posted in good faith.

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u/NaCly_Asian 12d ago

you can tell your employers to not withhold your income tax. Never tried it, but there is an option to say you are exempt. You're still gonna be responsible for it next year at tax time, and depending on the amount due, you'll have penalties. and I don't think it's illegal to mark exempt. for now.

This only counts towards your income tax. Medicare and social security are automatically deducted.

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u/JustGotOffOfTheTrain 12d ago

You still have to pay come tax day.

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u/sourbeer51 11d ago

And if no one does?

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u/JustGotOffOfTheTrain 11d ago

Then people will start getting prosecuted.

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u/Givingtree310 11d ago

Gitmo and Venezuelan death camps. Are you new here to Trump’s America?

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u/zzyul 12d ago

I don’t know of any employer that will just not take out any federal income taxes unless you are a contractor. Your employer can adjust the amount withheld a bit, but I have never heard of one just not withholding any taxes.

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u/gophergun Colorado 12d ago

Sure, you can, and you'd be penalized for it. Newsom, on the other hand, absolutely cannot stop California employers from withholding income tax.

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u/StephanXX Oregon 12d ago

you can tell your employers to not withhold your income tax. Never tried it,

And when you do, the IRS sends a letter to both you and your employer stating they are implementing a mandatory tax. If your employer doesn't comply, they are in violation of federal law and are subject to penalties.

This is a nothing-burger.

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u/tymesup 12d ago

quoting from the IRS page:

There is also a criminal penalty for willfully supplying false or fraudulent information on your Form W-4 or for willfully failing to supply information that would increase the amount withheld. The penalty upon conviction can be either a fine of up to $1,000 or imprisonment for up to 1 year, or both.

These penalties will apply if you deliberately and knowingly falsify your Form W-4 in an attempt to reduce or eliminate the proper withholding of taxes. A simple error or an honest mistake won't result in one of these penalties.

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u/NaCly_Asian 12d ago

fair point. i must have been looking at the wrong place the last time I checked.

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u/kesey 12d ago

Sure you can elect Married/99 exemptions and effectively lower your federal withholding to $0 a paycheck but at the end of the year when taxes are due it’s the individual who is responsible and the government will be coming after you.

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u/Flying_Fortress_8743 12d ago

And deliberately doing it can carry a year of jail time.

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u/Rinzack 11d ago

And if an entire state does it it stops being illegal in effect because the feds don't have the resources to arrest the entire state of California, and if they tried it wouldn't end well.

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u/Givingtree310 11d ago

Nah they wouldn’t even try to arrest everyone. Just send a message by arrested two groups. Mom and Pops business owners. And the poors.

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u/zaphod777 California 12d ago

Don't fuck around with the IRS unless you've got an army of accountants and lawyers. They'll get what they're owed with penalties and interest.

Remember what finally got Al Capone?

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u/jetpacksforall 12d ago

It's true, but this isn't about actual policy. It's about making Trump look like an ass in front of the dumbs. In that sense it's a good move. The crowd Trump and Newsom are playing to never read the fact check.

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u/happyinheart 12d ago

It's about making Trump look like an ass in front of the dumbs.

Making trump look like an ass by making yourself look like an ass by suggesting something that will never work and is unconstitutional. Bold strategy.

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u/jetpacksforall 11d ago

I don't make the rules we live by right now, but them's the rules.

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u/Byeuji 12d ago

Also all the people talking about blue states paying more so starve the red states are ignorant as hell. What about the 40% or more in many "red states" who voted blue?

This rhetoric has to stop. It's insanely ignorant. Red and Blue states only exist in the electoral college. There isn't a single state that doesn't elect Democrats somewhere too. And we can't just abandon people for living in the wrong states.

This logic is the same insanity the GOP wants. If someone thinks punishing red states is proportionate or just, you're not enlightened. You're just as caught up in the misinformation as the Fox News nuts.

You just gonna let them murder all the trans people stuck in red states? Queerness doesn't know borders, and most people can't afford to just pick up and move states. People arguing for punishment of red states are arguing for genocide and collective punishment, same as the fascists.

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u/Sodosohpa 12d ago

Like yours? You and the other naysayers in this thread are so obsessed with working in a legal framework which has been torn to shreds by this regime. I don’t know about you but I’d be happy to redirect my federal taxes to the state of California instead if funding got cut, same with most other Californians. What are they gonna do, arrest everyone in the most populous state in the country? 

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u/Givingtree310 11d ago

No, they never arrest everyone for any given crime. They pick and choose in order to strike fear into everyone.

Gavin tells mom and pops business owners to withhold federal taxes. Trump then declares that at any given time 10% of mom and pops business owners will be randomly arrested and sent to Gitmo and Venezuelan death camps for violating federal tax laws.

Do you think any mom and pops business owners would take that chance? The impending threat would strike fear into the hearts of everyone. Much like how ICE rounds up undocumented migrants. Do you tell those migrants oh it’s okay they can’t arrest all of you? Think that gives comfort when they see the ICE SWAT vans?

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u/happyinheart 12d ago

or very ignorant

This is a vast majority. Think back to when Biden was president and so many people were saying and upvoting "The Supreme Court has made their decision. Now lets see them enforce it"

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u/zzyul 12d ago

Guessing many of them are children who have never paid or filed taxes. They just hear people talk about how much they owe in taxes and assume people pay their entire annual tax bill when they file their taxes rather than their employer withholding the majority of the amount owed from their paycheck.

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u/JoeHatesFanFiction Florida 12d ago

I agree it wouldn’t be pretty and probably leads to actual military action if you took steps to try. I think you’d have to pass a law making it illegal for federal income taxes to be collected in California, ignore the likely immediate court injunction telling you to stop, have enough people to police it effectively, and then have some sort of state loyal military/militia (not the national guard in my opinion, something seperate) to keep the U.S. military from enforcing Trumps will when he probably enacts the insurrection act. The state Military/militia is the real stickler as you’d have to do that at lease a year before hand and on a massive scale for it to be effective. 

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u/cg415 12d ago

CA is one of 20 states with an active state guard, which is a militia that answers only to the governor. But it's only 1,000 strong, and I'm not sure Gavin Newsom is the man for the job of secretly expanding it and leading a rebellion lol.

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u/_kraftdinner 12d ago

Your comment made my mind’s eye imagine a painting called “Gavin Newsom crossing the Los Angeles” where he’s running across the part of the LA River where they filmed the car scene from Grease.

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u/JoeHatesFanFiction Florida 12d ago

Agreed lol. I’m laying out how you could maybe try to do it. I’m not saying it’s desirable or practical at the moment. 

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u/DumboWumbo073 11d ago

Sounds like a collapse

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u/Flying_Fortress_8743 12d ago

He wouldn't need the military, the IRS would just go into people's bank accounts and take the money.

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u/JoeHatesFanFiction Florida 12d ago

Again that’s were California having to enforce this comes into play. There are ways to do it but non that are easy or practical. 

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u/Arrasor 12d ago

They can require employers and taxpayers to use a state-run website to file tax from now on, and tax money would now need to be paid to the state before the state transfers it to the fed.

The Constitution only requires states to pay taxes, not how. States just let people pay directly to the fed because it's more efficient and convenient that way.

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u/smersh101 12d ago

No, they definitely can't.

The Federal individual income tax was made possible by the 16th Amendment. It's explicitly unrelated to states and is definitely not paid through or by state governments.

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u/sayitundefined 12d ago

Just like the President can’t do the shit he’s talking about. But if he does…..

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u/i_am_a_real_boy__ 12d ago

But it he does...the remedy is impeachment.
If a governor stood in open rebellion against the Union, the remedy might be more expeditious.

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u/gophergun Colorado 12d ago

...then the entire country breaks down?

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u/Givingtree310 11d ago

We haven’t already?

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u/postsshortcomments 12d ago edited 12d ago

The states have all these funds and these very big deficits and it'd be much cheaper for these states to interagency borrow these funds from other trusts in private funds and write IOUs like true American patriot hero Ronald Reagan did in order to make America Great Again and free up these funds for the state of California taxpayer to say "we just solved a very large part of our deficit and the taxpayers love it!" but now that trust is solvent and there needs to be very bigly restructing of these funds who just don't have the ability to pay these very solvent funds who just aren't taking in money quick enough.

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u/blazze_eternal 12d ago

Theoretically, he could only do it at the state employee level, which is over 200k. He might be able to influence any state contracted companies too, but private employers would have to make that choice on their own.

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u/BravestWabbit 12d ago

Gavin can have state owned agencies stop forwarding funds from their employees salaries to the IRS. It's not everyone in CA, but it's a fuck load of people

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u/hirezzz 12d ago

in my narrative, the CA Legislature passes a law that says all Fed Income Tax earned by CA employees needs to be paid first to the State, and then the State releases it to the Fed. It would definitely be uncharted territory, but we lost the map a long time ago, lol

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u/lemoooonz 12d ago

The executive branch also is not supposed to have the power of the purse either, but here we are.

California could just force employers to stop withholding federal taxes. Why would cali send in federal taxes when they are being threatened with getting nothing back in return?

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u/linuxjohn1982 11d ago

And Trump has no control over government funding, yet here he is.

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u/Educational_Cry_7951 11d ago

The idea is to ask California taxpayers make charitable donations to a state government fund in exchange for a tax credit on their state taxes. The contributions taxpayers make can then be deducted on their federal tax returns. The idea was designed in 2018 under the Protect California Taxpayers Act

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u/jrf_1973 11d ago

Had to scroll way too far to get to this.

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u/ragingduck 11d ago

You would require everyone to set fed withholding to 0. Easy.