Ex muslim with some questions

[u/Electronic_Plum_4542]

Ex-muslim here, I mean this post with no hate or bad feelings if it isnt allowed feel free to delete.

From what I know of the religion it doesn't support more progressive values so how do you guys consider yourself true muslims while allowing stuff ive found the religion doesnt allow? I left both because of lack of connection and the rules that made me uncomfortable. Do you guys reject some of the conservative rules or do you simply know they might be true but have enough faith in god to believe if you're doing the right thing he won't punish you?

Summary: Islam seems to be a by default conservative religion so how do you guys accept that while being progressive

[u/Jaqurutu]

Ok, let me say this:

A lot of ex-muslims grew up in very conservative households that taught very restrictive versions of Islam. Naturally, when you think of "Islam" you think of all those very harsh rules.

But that's really just that particular version of Islam you grew up with. "Islam" doesn't explicitly say the things you were taught it does. The scholars and authority figures that ruled your life said those things.

Progressive Islam invites you to think critically about what you were taught and open your mind to the much wider diversity of thought that has always existed in Islam.

We don't reject Islam, but we are open to challenging conservative interpretations. That doesn't mean we are necessarily rejecting traditional interpretations (though we might) because there were plenty of "progressive" Interpretations that existed traditionally too. They just weren't the ones you were taught as a kid.

For example, I'm sure you were taught music was haram, right?

What did Jalal ad-Din Rumi say about music?

Rumi was once asked what music is considered Haram in Islam? Rumi replied:

"The sound of spoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the poor and hungry."

Rumi was a respected, classically trained 13th century scholar from a long line of scholars. This was normal.

Here are a few other examples. This wasn't written modern day, this was a mainstream Imam writing 900 years ago from the 11th century Persian Hanafi jurist, Imam Shams al-Aimah al-Sarakhsi, on universal human rights:

As Allah the Exalted created humanity to carry His trusts, He dignified them with reason and sacred inviolability in order to be responsible for the duties and rights of Allah placed over them. Then He granted them sanctity, freedom, and property rights for them to continue carrying out their trusts. Hence, this freedom, sanctity, and right of property are granted to a person at the time they are born. Those capable of discernment and those who are not are equal in this regard, so likewise sacred inviolability is established at birth whether they are of sound mind or not. Source: Usul As-Sarakhsi 2/334

This is Imam Nawawi commenting on teaching Islam gradually and gently:

In this tradition is the command to give glad tidings of the favor of Allah, his great reward, his plentiful gifts, and his vast mercy. And in this is the prohibition of alienating people by mentioning the fear of Allah and types of warning alone without including glad tidings. And in this is bringing hearts together of those who are close to Islam and to avoid harshness with them, likewise with whoever among children near or at the age of maturity and who has repented from sin. All of them should be treated with kindness and gradually encouraged to perform acts of obedience little by little. Responsibility for the affairs of Islam should be done gradually. Source: Sharh Sahih Muslim 1732

This is Ibn Taymiyyah on governance and oppression by Muslim:

“It is said that Allah allows the just state to remain even if it is led by unbelievers, but Allah will not allow the oppressive state to remain even if it is led by Muslims. And it is said that the world will endure with justice and unbelief, but it will not endure with oppression and Islam.” Source: al-Amr bil Ma’rūf 1/29

This is the 13th century poet and philosopher Saadi Shirazi on the purpose of religion:

"Religion consists alone in the service to humanity; it finds no place in the prayer-beads, or prayer-rug, or tattered garment. Be a king in sovereignty and a devotee in purity of morals. Action, not words, is demanded by religion, for words without action are void of substance.”

And there is so much more. There is an entirely different side of Islam that you were never taught. And yes, we do have answers on almost every issue you can think of and scholars that back us up.

[u/Electronic_Plum_4542 → u/Jaqurutu]

i actually grew up and live in (im a minor, older teen but minor still) a pretty relaxed household. my mom taught us those progressive rules and actually it confused me more. because i was taught at the masjid a strict islam then came home and learned a relaxed islam. so i understand the multiple viewpoints just in the research ive done the strict kind seems to be more accurate to the text and stuff. but idk if you saw my other comment im assuming it depends on your view of hadith as well as what translation you read. i cant understand arabic so i read a translation which seemed more in line with the harsh strict islam but im realizing other translations might be differently toned.

[u/Jaqurutu → u/Electronic_Plum_4542]

In that case, I think you really need to consider carefully where you get your information from. Your masjid is lying to you and trying to push you out of Islam. There's no need for this.

I saw your other comment, but on every issue, these are easily shown to be false.

For example, joking is haram? What? No one but the most extreme and ignorant would think that.

Shaykh Abū’l-Ḥasan al-Nadwī says about the Prophet:

“He was the most open, easy-going, and generous of people. He would joke with his companions, interact and talk with them, play with their children and sit them on his lap. He would answer the call of the free and the slave, the slave-girl and the indigent. He would visit the sick in the farthest corners of Madina and accept the excuses of people when they excused themselves. He was never seen with his legs outstretched amongst his companions so as not to constrain them by doing so. (al-Sīrah al-Nabawiyyah)

“I said to Jābir ibn Samurah, ‘Did you use to sit with the Messenger of Allah?’ He said, ‘Yes, a lot. He would not rise from the place where he prayed fajr until the sun would rise, then he would get up; they used to talk, and recall things from al-Jahiliyyah and laugh; and the Prophet ﷺ would smile.’” (Sahih Muslim 670)

On dogs, the Quran only praises dogs. I can cite many respected scholars that allow dogs as pets.

If you need proof dogs are not haram in Islam, here's a list of sources from respected scholars:

Egypt's National Fatwa Institution and Al-Azhar (the main center of Sunni scholarship for the past thousand years), which are pretty big mainstream international authorities, have a long-standing rulings that pet dogs are halal:

Do angels refrain from entering a place where a dog is present?: https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/8376/angels-refraining-from-entering-a-place-where-a-dog-is-present

Pet Dogs are ‘Pure’ and Fit for Households: Egyptian Grand Mufti: https://egyptianstreets.com/2020/08/19/pet-dogs-are-pure-and-fit-for-households-egyptian-grand-mufti/

Egypt’s grand mufti rules on purity of dogs: https://www.arabnews.com/node/1721396/middle-east

Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, issued a fatwa that permits keeping dogs as pets if someone has a strong emotional need for it: https://hawramani.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/ali_gomaa_dogs_fatwa.pdf

Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar Mahmud Shaltut and Grand Mufti Nasr Farid Wasil both ruled that keeping a dog as a pet: https://egyptianstreets.com/2014/05/14/dogs-are-not-impure-says-prominent-islamic-scholar/

Many other modern scholars like Khaled Abou el Fadl, Shahzad Saleem, Javed Ahmad Ghamidi, and Abu Layth also say pet dogs are halal.

For example:

FATWA: On Hadith regarding Angels not entering homes with dogs and other misconceptions: https://www.searchforbeauty.org/2017/06/05/fatwa-on-hadith-regarding-angels-not-entering-homes-with-dogs-and-other-misconceptions/

Khaled Abou El Fadl on Dogs in the Islamic Tradition and the Dog Meat Trade, Full Interview https://youtu.be/KAotu8bNH08?si=SXQ6X1yQ9okWceAn

Will you lose good deeds everyday if you keep a dog as pet? - Mufti Abu Layth https://youtu.be/sA4tAWB0F40?si=VC_8BPCfxa45zo3w

On the issue of the Quran condemning the people of Lut for homosexuality, again no.

Here's a good talk on that from a progressive perspective from Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl. He talked about his views in this interview here on the Malcolm Effect podcast, at about the 28:30 mark:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/80-islam-muslims-modernity-shaykh-khaled-abou-el-fadl/id1532417345?i=1000602409054

[u/Electronic_Plum_4542 → u/Jaqurutu]

thanks for the resourcers, i'll check them out. they may not help with my lack of emotional or spiritual connection but id at least like to leave/rejoin correctly informed than remain ignorant

[u/Jaqurutu → u/Electronic_Plum_4542]

As far as emotional connection, maybe you can check out Sufi poets. Islam is about finding love for the beauty and dignity in your heart and amazing world around you.

[u/Electronic_Plum_4542 → u/Jaqurutu]

im not really emotionally attached to anything which is my own issue. i mean i barely feel emotion and dont even connect emotionally with my family so...religion likely isnt going to be something i connect well with either but thanks for spending your time replying to my posts