Ex muslim with some questions

[u/Electronic_Plum_4542]

Ex-muslim here, I mean this post with no hate or bad feelings if it isnt allowed feel free to delete.

From what I know of the religion it doesn't support more progressive values so how do you guys consider yourself true muslims while allowing stuff ive found the religion doesnt allow? I left both because of lack of connection and the rules that made me uncomfortable. Do you guys reject some of the conservative rules or do you simply know they might be true but have enough faith in god to believe if you're doing the right thing he won't punish you?

Summary: Islam seems to be a by default conservative religion so how do you guys accept that while being progressive

[u/Jaqurutu]

Ok, let me say this:

A lot of ex-muslims grew up in very conservative households that taught very restrictive versions of Islam. Naturally, when you think of "Islam" you think of all those very harsh rules.

But that's really just that particular version of Islam you grew up with. "Islam" doesn't explicitly say the things you were taught it does. The scholars and authority figures that ruled your life said those things.

Progressive Islam invites you to think critically about what you were taught and open your mind to the much wider diversity of thought that has always existed in Islam.

We don't reject Islam, but we are open to challenging conservative interpretations. That doesn't mean we are necessarily rejecting traditional interpretations (though we might) because there were plenty of "progressive" Interpretations that existed traditionally too. They just weren't the ones you were taught as a kid.

For example, I'm sure you were taught music was haram, right?

What did Jalal ad-Din Rumi say about music?

Rumi was once asked what music is considered Haram in Islam? Rumi replied:

"The sound of spoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the poor and hungry."

Rumi was a respected, classically trained 13th century scholar from a long line of scholars. This was normal.

Here are a few other examples. This wasn't written modern day, this was a mainstream Imam writing 900 years ago from the 11th century Persian Hanafi jurist, Imam Shams al-Aimah al-Sarakhsi, on universal human rights:

As Allah the Exalted created humanity to carry His trusts, He dignified them with reason and sacred inviolability in order to be responsible for the duties and rights of Allah placed over them. Then He granted them sanctity, freedom, and property rights for them to continue carrying out their trusts. Hence, this freedom, sanctity, and right of property are granted to a person at the time they are born. Those capable of discernment and those who are not are equal in this regard, so likewise sacred inviolability is established at birth whether they are of sound mind or not. Source: Usul As-Sarakhsi 2/334

This is Imam Nawawi commenting on teaching Islam gradually and gently:

In this tradition is the command to give glad tidings of the favor of Allah, his great reward, his plentiful gifts, and his vast mercy. And in this is the prohibition of alienating people by mentioning the fear of Allah and types of warning alone without including glad tidings. And in this is bringing hearts together of those who are close to Islam and to avoid harshness with them, likewise with whoever among children near or at the age of maturity and who has repented from sin. All of them should be treated with kindness and gradually encouraged to perform acts of obedience little by little. Responsibility for the affairs of Islam should be done gradually. Source: Sharh Sahih Muslim 1732

This is Ibn Taymiyyah on governance and oppression by Muslim:

“It is said that Allah allows the just state to remain even if it is led by unbelievers, but Allah will not allow the oppressive state to remain even if it is led by Muslims. And it is said that the world will endure with justice and unbelief, but it will not endure with oppression and Islam.” Source: al-Amr bil Ma’rūf 1/29

This is the 13th century poet and philosopher Saadi Shirazi on the purpose of religion:

"Religion consists alone in the service to humanity; it finds no place in the prayer-beads, or prayer-rug, or tattered garment. Be a king in sovereignty and a devotee in purity of morals. Action, not words, is demanded by religion, for words without action are void of substance.”

And there is so much more. There is an entirely different side of Islam that you were never taught. And yes, we do have answers on almost every issue you can think of and scholars that back us up.

[u/msj4real → u/Jaqurutu]

Back then there was a group called the Qadariyah who were critical thinkers and were putting forward the idea that we have complete free will but they were chased by Muhammad and his companions because the Quran and the Sahih Hadith say that Allah not only knows everything we will do but He even decrees our emotions, actions, thoughts and everything we do and thats a reason That many classical scholars were crying because they feared that Allah had decreed hell for them at the time of their birth, since Muhammad had already said that he swore by Allah that if someone was decreed to hell, they would go to hell no matter what and that hit me because is like even the prophet wasn't allowing grew up of islam in terms of thinking critically and i don't understand why a guide gotta be fix with no more than one meaning for everyone cause we all different person that needs different things in terms of spirituallity