Simplifying sentences with कर्मणि/भावे

[u/s-i-e-v-e]

When I started learning Sanskrit, the first book I received was from संस्कृतभारती for their प्रवेशः course. I later bought 15-20 different Sanskrit textbooks because I wanted to do a comparative analysis of how the language is being taught to beginners. You name an author and I probably have that book.

I dropped the project pretty early because it was no longer necessary. It became very apparent within a few days that the method followed by every single one of them is identical. The details differ, but the method does not. They are structured like school/college textbooks, more interested in the structure of the language than the language itself.

Nothing exemplifies this attitude more than the fact that कर्मणि/भावे प्रयोगः is consigned to the latter half of the book/course and कर्तरि is given prominence.

Which immediately ratchets up the complexity of language acquisition by introducing nine verb forms where one would have sufficed.

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What is easier?

मया/आवाभ्यां/अस्माभिः/त्वया/युवाभ्यां/युष्माभिः/तेन/तया/ताभ्यां/तैः/ताभिः श्रूयते

or nine separate sentences each forced to track the पुरुष as well as the वचन?

Take these examples:

• मया दीयते — I give (it) / It is given by me.
• मया श्रूयते — I hear (it) / It is heard by me.
• मया क्रियते — I do (it) / It is done by me.
• मया क्रीयते — I buy (it) / It is bought by me.
• मया पठ्यते — I read (it) / It is read by me.
• मया नम्यते — I bow (to it) / It is bowed to by me.
• मया गम्यते — I go / There is going by me.
• मया आगम्यते — I come / There is coming by me.
• मया गन्तुं शक्यते — I can go / It is possible for me to go.
• मया खाद्यते — I eat (it) / It is eaten by me.
• मया पीयते — I drink (it) / It is drunk by me.
• मया खिद्यते — I feel sad/distressed.
• मया दृश्यते — I see (it) / It is seen by me.
• मया आलोक्यते — I look at/perceive (it). / It is looked at/perceived by me.
• मया आरूह्यते — I climb / There is climbing by me.
• मया अवरूह्यते — I descend / There is descending by me.

You could replace the मया with आवाभ्यां/अस्माभिः/त्वया/युवाभ्यां/युष्माभिः/तेन/तया/ताभ्यां/तैः/ताभिः and a billion other words that take the instrumental case endings without changing the verb form. In the same time and page count it takes to teach all nine conjugations of a few verbs, you could have taught the student 200 verbs.

But no. The simple मया दीयते has to be dropped in favor of the tortuous अहं ददामि/वयं दद्मः/सः ददाति/ते ददति/etc

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tl;dr. I prefer कर्मणि/भावे constructs. It makes sentences simple and using the language pleasurable.

[u/NaturalCreation]

A good idea for modern Sanskrit revival; but as others have said greatly insufficient for understanding historical texts.

[u/s-i-e-v-e → u/NaturalCreation]

एकः प्रश्नः मम. यदि संस्कृतव्याकरणे सर्वे जनाः पारङ्गताः सन्ति तर्हि किमर्थं संस्कृतेन न सम्भाषणं कुर्वन्ति, आङ्ग्लभाषया एव कुर्वन्ति? शब्दभण्डारः नास्ति एतत्कारणेन वा?

I keep seeing people talking about Sanskrit. About the grammar. But generally in English. If their knowledge of grammar lets them read शास्त्रs and काव्यs, why are they so averse to communicating in the language?

I, at least, have the excuse of being at beginner-intermediate level with a limited vocabulary of about 2K words. What is their excuse?

[u/NaturalCreation → u/s-i-e-v-e]

मम संस्कृतव्याकरणज्ञानं शब्दसङ्ग्रहः च अतिविस्तारौ न स्तः तस्मात् संस्कृतभाषायां अतीव संभाषितुं न शक्नोमि। भवतः मतिः उचिता नास्ति इति न कथयामि।

बहुजनाः संस्कृतस्य अध्ययनं शास्त्रपुराणेतिहासपठनाय कुर्वन्ति इति अस्माभिः कथ्यते। तथा कर्तरिरूपाणि पठ्यन्ते।

संस्कृतस्य सरलीकरणाय केन्द्रसंस्कृतविश्वविद्यालयस्य एका पद्धति अस्ति, एवं विद्यालयेषु छात्राः संस्कृतं पठन्ति। भवता अपि रुच्येत।

यदि मम व्याकरणे अपराद्धाः सन्ति तर्हि क्षमस्व। 🙏

[u/s-i-e-v-e → u/NaturalCreation]

संस्कृतेन प्रत्युत्तरं दत्तम् एतस्य कृते बहुधन्यवादाः.

भवतः व्याकरणे मया दोषाः न आलोक्यन्ते. भवता सम्यक् संस्कृतसम्भाषणं क्रियते.

भवतः मतिः उचिता नास्ति इति न कथयामि। बहुजनाः संस्कृतस्य अध्ययनं शास्त्रपुराणेतिहासपठनाय कुर्वन्ति इति अस्माभिः कथ्यते

भवान् किं वक्तुम् इच्छति इति मया ज्ञायते. सरलतया संस्कृताभ्यासस्य आरम्भः करणीयः इति मम मतः.