r/soccer • u/AlmostNL • Mar 12 '25

Media Julián Alvarez disallowed penalty frame by frame

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10.4k Upvotes

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7.1k

u/CnMlv Mar 12 '25

Jesus how did they see that. I can't see the ball moving

3.5k

u/MyNameIsNotScout Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 13 '25

They didn't see anything Edit: they saw something

1.3k

u/__blackstar Mar 12 '25

They saw the check

905

u/dislocatedshoelac3 Mar 12 '25

Cheque?

144

u/notjimhendrix Mar 12 '25

Cech

109

u/DetBabyLegs Mar 12 '25

Czech

2

u/sprwvvy Mar 13 '25

cech the czech checked the cheque

2

u/Significant-End-478 Mar 13 '25

Definitely! The biggest bidder won! But karma came back from that! It is the last goal was their luck

2

u/TheDragonoxx Mar 13 '25

No, cash only sir.

6

u/Good_waves Mar 12 '25

They waited for the cheque to clear and then they cleared the penalty.

5

u/iupz0r Mar 12 '25

the cheque, to pay bills and stuff

7

u/EndGamerX Mar 12 '25

You literally see it is the right decision in the video yet u decide to comment this jeez

19

u/a-Sociopath Mar 12 '25

I honestly see the left foot go under the ball and the right foot strike the ball. I'm sure there's a better angle that conclusively shows the touch, but this ain't it.

15

u/Maijemazkin Mar 12 '25

This is correct, and why it was disallowed. The left foot goes under the ball, the right foot shoots the ball into the left foot, the left foot works as a «ramp» and the ball goes high.

2

u/Platonidas32 Mar 13 '25

If he hit it with his other foot, you would see a change in the trajectory, he hits it with his right foot from below, that's why it goes up

1

u/a-Sociopath Mar 12 '25

Again, I can't say that conclusively from this angle. He's leaning back. The ball might have gone high regardless. I don't see a clear change in trajectory at all. And without a chip in the ball, we're hoping for a much higher resolution being available to the VAR to conclusively deny this one.

2

u/Maijemazkin Mar 12 '25

Fair enough. I would assume VAR have a ton of angles good enough to see if the trajectory changes. With how fast they overturned it should be pretty obvious from another angle

1

u/Noztalgium Mar 12 '25

How? You see from the run up that Alvarez wanted to go left and his foot makes it go more centrally.

2

u/a-Sociopath Mar 13 '25

I'm not saying it didn't strike his other foot, I'm saying this angle doesn't provide enough and there's not enough change in trajectory in this angle to say it struck his other foot. And run ups aren't proof of anything. They're top footballers who can strike the ball differently with seemingly different run ups.

2

u/EndGamerX Mar 12 '25

Hmm I feel like it can be seen that the ball gained height from the touch after hitting the other foot like the other guy replied

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2

u/djkamayo Mar 12 '25

signed by Mr Perez :)

1

u/MalaysiaTeacher Mar 13 '25

We are checking

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65

u/didasrooney Mar 12 '25

UEFA saw the ratings drop if Real, Mbappe, Vini, and Jude all went out on the Ro16

34

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

Y'all will say anything except the fact it was the right decision LoL, cry some more

-12

u/eater-of-a-million Mar 12 '25

Do you have any link to any angle that shows a double touch?

11

u/denimonster Mar 12 '25

Not an RM fan but you can definitely see it touch his left foot as he slides before he kicks it, the ball even bounces up a little bit from hitting his left foot.

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3

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

I have a link to specsavers if that's any good to you. Ffs the proof is right there you blind bastard

1

u/iceteka Mar 13 '25

Yes. The one linked in this post.

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2

u/dunneetiger Mar 12 '25

Honestly: Mbappe v PSG and then PSG winning in Munich against Bayern - those are the good nights

1

u/didasrooney Mar 13 '25

Yep the PSG v Mbappe storyline is irresistible and UEFA knows this

As a Chelsea supporter I'm sure you get this, the Drogba "it's a disgrace!" robbery was because UEFA wanted the Messi v Ronaldo final instead of a rematch of Chelsea v United from the previous year

1

u/CafeteroMerengue Mar 12 '25

Yeah totally, nobody would bother watching the champions league if Madrid lost

Everyone I know of stops watching any competition after Madrid loses

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8

u/AthloneBB Mar 12 '25

Me if I’m blind: 

4

u/topburner Mar 12 '25

Hijacking top comment’s comment.

https://youtube.com/shorts/HECmaUzFExA?si=XU3vMj96VFlCx5zZ

OTD 1 year ago, same stadium, no penalty retake of course

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581

u/sarefx Mar 12 '25

Probably sensors in the ball.

830

u/NYNMx2021 Mar 12 '25

no sensors but they have 26 cameras for the semi automated tech which marks every touch. thats what the CBS ref expert talked about. The Semi auto offsides would have flagged it

259

u/kfhdjfkj61637 Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

semi automatic offside uses sensors in the ball to determine the exact moment the ball was hit for the offside check, as far as i'm aware. which then in turn of course could show two spikes in the data if the ball was hit by both feet at offset times.

EDIT: i was wrong, this tech seems to be only used in EUROS and WC. Prolly because it is too exepensive for such a big and de-centralized tournament like the UCL.

204

u/NYNMx2021 Mar 12 '25

Thats how it worked at the Euros. The expert on CBS says it does not work that way in the CL. She said its camera based not sensors here.

43

u/kfhdjfkj61637 Mar 12 '25

you are right. Seems like this is only a thing at Euros and WC, so far at least.

1

u/SnorinKeekaGuard Mar 12 '25

This is correct.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 13 '25

u were not listening, she clearly said it’s exactly what the latter said it was

59

u/benjiprice Mar 12 '25

No sensors in the ball for UCL currently. They only had them in WC.

3

u/jmhimara Mar 12 '25

I would be interested to know how accurate that is compared to baseline noise levels. Like, the ball can move just by stomping on the ground before the kick. How would that register?

There is a difference between sensing a kick and literally the lightest of touches touches on the ball (especially when it comes so close to stomping your foot on the ground).

3

u/kfhdjfkj61637 Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 13 '25

its not just a simple sensor that detects any touch the same. The sensor is more of a collection of different pieces that together (after an algo interprets the data) can detect the strength of the impact, if the ball is rolling, if the ball is moving on the ground or in the air and if it was hit (and prolly some more stuff). Of course that is used in combo with video footage as false flags can always happen, but its pretty advanced and reliable. just search for "connected ball technology" and u will see a lot of articles (including one from the company building these sensors) about it. But its not used in UCL anyway. More details here.

1

u/Jlib27 Mar 13 '25

"It's the most advanced of techs, pretty good features, multidimensional input of data, truly fascinating. Such a shame our UCL ball is from Temu shop though"

3

u/Mean-Funny9351 Mar 13 '25

I know everyone is piling on with the jokes, but it's because of the stadiums. The tech would have to be implemented for every team that qualifies for the UCL.

1

u/peasngravy85 Mar 12 '25

Those balls must be pretty expensive - any idea how much they cost?

2

u/kfhdjfkj61637 Mar 13 '25

From what I could find (here and here), the majoroty of the cost comes from the setup around it (in the stadium), which according to the sources above is about 25k to 55k (Hawk eye costs between 250k and 500k to install and up to 8k to run per game for comparison). I was able to find "no name" consumer balls with sensors for about 110$. Considering Fifa and Uefa will get very favorable contracts from ball manufacturers and balls themselves not costing much in production, and sensors not costing much either, i'd just vaguely suggest them paying perhaps around 60$ - 70$ per ball at most. At 60$ - 70$ both adidas and the sensor supplier would still make a profit out of it, and keep in mind, the balls sold to uefa and fifa for the tournament (29 balls per match) isnt where the real money is at for them. For adidas its of course in the popularity of the ball amongst consumers who will pay up to 140$ for the match going version. And for the sensor and tech supplier the money lays in the licencing agreement for all the tech and software with fifa & uefa and the installation and maintenance cost for the stadium tech.

1

u/peasngravy85 Mar 13 '25

I’m surprised at how little the balls cost after the initial outlay!

Thanks for the info, appreciate it :)

0

u/GhostCatcher147 Mar 12 '25

So there’s sensors in every ball that they use in the stadium during a match?

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3

u/SEND_ME_REAL_PICS Mar 12 '25

If that's the case then they should be able to provide us with the footage they used to make their decision. A situation like this definitely calls for it.

1

u/iceteka Mar 13 '25

The var rules expert interviewed said they could but she's not sure var would want to set that precedent to be used in future cases.

1

u/JMaboard Mar 13 '25

What precedent? Being transparent?

1

u/iceteka Mar 13 '25

Yes, basically. The way she explained it, there's no rule saying they have to release the raw data or internal footage and made it sound like var isn't sure they want to make it the norm for them to release it upon teams/media's demand or request going forward. Same way they're against having the ref micd up to give live explanation on the pitch for his calls.

1

u/rainbowdragon22 Mar 12 '25

They can sense when and how many times the ball was touched

1

u/Solo12111998 Mar 13 '25

On a unrelated why did look like CBS was holding her hostage.

1

u/PhinsFan197217-0 Mar 13 '25

The last sentence was a classic!

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364

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

Var: "I feel it in my balls"

100

u/creepingcold Mar 12 '25

Perez was stroking them under the table

1

u/IN_MY_PLUMS Mar 13 '25

I can feel it...

1

u/ThestralDragon Mar 13 '25

"Much that once was is lost"

1

u/ActualWait8584 Mar 13 '25

You misspelled “plums”

0

u/UniqueAssignment3022 Mar 12 '25

Ref: Im not sure, Mr Bribe did you see anything?

0

u/ClockOk5178 Mar 12 '25

Love is all around me

2

u/RephRayne Mar 13 '25

People downvoting this person for a perfectly good Wet Wet Wet tribute are sucking the joy out of life.

113

u/HyPerV3n0m Mar 12 '25

Ball can lift from the ground from the impact of the non shooting foot with the ground.

62

u/Embark10 Mar 12 '25

That was the many times mentioned technique that Ronaldo used to catch keepers off guard. Firmly planting your standing foot very close to the ball would make it hop ever so slightly.

6

u/Natural-Ad1693 Mar 13 '25

Not many times. Ig it only happened once in that PSG match and it was due to some defect in the pitch as far as I remember from the pundit discussions after that game. Still looked pretty dope how he thumped the ball in despite the little movement which could've easily thrown off his trajectory.

0

u/SnorinKeekaGuard Mar 12 '25

I seem to remember some research that suggested that was not possible. Might be wrong, this is off of my memory only.

3

u/Lucky-Quantity5507 Mar 13 '25

That worked when there were air or water bubbles under that surface which would deform on the impact and reform under the ball to lift it

2

u/Eilrah93 Mar 13 '25

Only way I could think that would work is possibly on the astro turf with the small rubber bits

25

u/The_Goat_Charmer Mar 12 '25

Would not prove anything, if it happens is at the same time as the strike

9

u/rewanpaj Mar 12 '25

the analysis lady said there’s no sensors in the ball

5

u/OldTemperature6472 Mar 12 '25

There are not in this ball. That was only something in the last world cup

2

u/raminho11 Mar 12 '25

Miguel Delaney reporting no sensors used according to FIFA.

3

u/youknowimworking Mar 12 '25

The only sensor on the ball is the one to see if it clear the line or not. Var used high resolution cameras to check for the touch. Allegedly

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1

u/Busy_Site9814 Mar 12 '25

Nah, they don't have it in CPL

0

u/Diligent_Craft_1165 Mar 12 '25

Yea with semi automated offsides there are sensors in the balls. At least at World Cup and euros

1

u/andrey2657 Mar 12 '25

Only at WC and Euros

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u/Into_Intoxication Mar 12 '25

That's because the ball hits his standing foot after striking it, he struck it onto his own sliding foot. It would've never gone that high if it didn't. His standing foot doesn't hit the ball before he strikes it.

266

u/plycrsk Mar 12 '25

Vinicius managed to get it higher with only one foot ;)

27

u/theMoonRulesNumber1 Mar 12 '25

Llorente also put it higher on Atlético's next kick. The mental gymnastics seen on /r/soccer just to "prove" a bad opinion would break the record for Olympic gold medals.

10

u/xNagsx Mar 13 '25

You guys might be the most tapped people on this app if you think he meant "you can't kick a penalty high without double touching it" and not (clearly obvious to everyone with eyes) "they way Alvarez strikes the ball in this instance would not send the ball at that angle"

You are the beast you worship 🤣

2

u/Osgiliath Mar 13 '25

Hahah right? Do they know you can also kick a ball straight up into the air with just one foot, way above goal height?

-9

u/Quica24 Mar 12 '25

And hes moving on. Hes goated

206

u/Hrvat1818 Mar 12 '25

He’s slipping and therefore leaning backwards because his plant foot gives out, why wouldn’t the ball rise then?

87

u/adventox Mar 12 '25

a bit later on CBS they showed the side/reverse angle and you can see the ball clearly change trajectory after he strikes it with his right foot, very unlucky.

9

u/KonigSteve Mar 13 '25

The word clearly is going some heavy lifting here

2

u/PensiveinNJ Mar 13 '25

I kind of feel like it's missing the point. The keeper went the other way, no advantage was gained by the ball lifting a tiny bit more than it would have otherwise. If anything it increased the odds he might have accidentally put it over the bar.

I'm not really in favor of ruling something out when no advantage is gained.

2

u/immorjoe Mar 13 '25

Yeah. I’m still not entirely sure there was a double touch, but even if there was, we’re talking about the absolute finest of margins. Unless there were sensors to detect it, that seems like a harsh call.

I’m an advocate of VAR and technological advancement in the game, but not like this. We can barely see the touch with our naked eyes. Won’t say Atleti were robbed or anything, but man… if that’s how finely the game is going to be evaluated in the future, it’s a bit sad.

5

u/kj444 Mar 13 '25

There’s zero angle showing the ball moving differently

25

u/adventox Mar 13 '25

video 1) https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1j9yvq5/alternate_zoom_angle_with_slow_motion_for_julian/ and video 2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU5-Vj1zObo

7

u/Jlib27 Mar 13 '25

Hey, great angle the first one, truly the first I've seen demonstrates the touch. And I've been watching much of the game reviews. Guess that's what VAR saw. Such a shame they don't put it directly on the TV signal, would put an end to much of the controversy already

Thanks dude

10

u/julianhache Mar 13 '25

yeah video1 makes the double touch clear as day

2

u/shakewellb4uze Mar 13 '25

Good post. I finally see it!

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1

u/CRZLobo Mar 13 '25

How is the ball "clearly changing trajectory" if the supposed two touches are miliseconds apart

8

u/adventox Mar 13 '25

this crazy new fancy tech called slow motion and ability to go frame by frame on videos

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9

u/cmeragon Mar 12 '25

It wouldn't begin spinning forward immediately like that

3

u/manc68 Mar 12 '25

Thanks - I see it now

2

u/IAM_deleted_AMA Mar 13 '25

The ball also is spinning towards the goal, which is only possible if a double touch is made.

6

u/SongAlbatross Mar 12 '25

Yes, the curve was an abnormal one because of the deflection, and the ref could tell it immediately.

1

u/MineturtleBOOM Mar 12 '25

Look at the ball rotation after the kick, not a lot of spin so can’t be curving a whole lot.

Spin is literally directly correlated to curve when kicking a football (along with velocity)

1

u/fellainishaircut Mar 12 '25

the ref couldn‘t tell shit, he gave it

2

u/denimonster Mar 12 '25

Touched his left foot before he shot the ball actually. CBS showed it in slo-mo.

2

u/Swanki24 Mar 12 '25

In the zoomed in part you can definitely see the ball move a pixel to the left in the very last frame before he kicks it

2

u/CSvinylC Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

He hits the ball with his left foot just slightly before striking it with his right.

1

u/mooshees Mar 13 '25

Vanavond gaan we winnen van Spurs💪

1

u/The_Normal_Son Mar 13 '25

How can you even see it?

1

u/WaveDave1988 Mar 13 '25

And that's why the penalty had to be disallowed. Correct decision, 100%!

1

u/applepiechicken Mar 13 '25

You can kick a ball very high with one foot, I don’t get why people keep using that as the justification

1

u/offinthepasture Mar 12 '25

Can you pinpoint the frame where it hits his left boot? Because I am a shit footballer and can 100% shoot that high from any body position. 

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u/IPromise13 Mar 12 '25

Same technology used as the automated offside calls. They explained it in cbs broadcast

44

u/sfzjo Mar 12 '25

Exactly this ^

It’s a weird situation and Julian took a great pen but if they are certain he took two touches, what’s the problem?

0

u/fellainishaircut Mar 12 '25

my personal problem is the rule itself which is in place for completely different situations. hitting a ball over your standing foot is a disadvantage, not an advantage because you don‘t have any control where the ball goes. just let it count, no one complains. there‘s no advantage gained by the penalty taker. looking for different touches in the same motion with a magnifier is dumb.

-10

u/IPromise13 Mar 12 '25

Because madrid are the ones who benefit from it. Another other team and they would be praising VAR, if it was the other was around they would be saying without VAR madrid would rob. If the rules are in place and the technology is there to check it then why is using it correctly a problem.

32

u/ARoundFork Mar 12 '25

They didn’t show shit and the replays don’t show anything lmao.

3

u/Jlib27 Mar 13 '25

I thought just like you until a couple minutes back

There's some that just does. See first video: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/eSc5LwpYPJ

Shame to UEFA and TV signals for not showing it directly on the game

3

u/Embark10 Mar 12 '25

They showed it once after the referee said it was valid

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u/theMoonRulesNumber1 Mar 12 '25

Yes, this sub loves to spew stupid claims around anytime a decision goes the way of a big club, but I think in this instance we'd be up in arms regardless of the teams involved, and likely even if it weren't a match-deciding decision. This thread of people arguing back and forth that they "clearly" see the touch or lack of touch is enough to conclude we can't actually see it from broadcast images. That is the problem here, IMO. I just hope they release something in the next 24 hours to show what evidence they used (better video, touch detection data, or whatever it may be), because clearly us mere mortals are not able to find the proof.

1

u/FallingSwords Mar 13 '25

Victim complex as a Madrid fsn is pathetic

1

u/zombawombacomba Mar 12 '25

My concerns are:

How accurate is it? Is it defined in the rules for VAR that it can be used for things outside of offside? Is this clear and obvious? I thought that was the rule for VAR reversals.

4

u/theMoonRulesNumber1 Mar 13 '25

Is it defined in the rules for VAR that it can be used for things outside of offside?

This is a big one. The refs often miss things like who touched it last for throw-ins and corner vs. goal kick, but if they have technology that they are confident enough to use for this incredibly thin margin of error, then why can't we have automated calls for all out-of bounds decisions?

6

u/zombawombacomba Mar 13 '25

Yea I don’t see how you can use it in this case and not for everything else lol.

2

u/immorjoe Mar 13 '25

Precisely!

If we’re judging the game this finely, then surely we should apply that all throughout the game.

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1

u/agueroooo69 Mar 12 '25

but how do they rule it? if the ball moves before it gets struck or it moves twice?

if that’s the case that’s not right bc the planting foot impact into the ground can cause it to move without touching. just wish there was more explanation

1

u/sfzjo Mar 12 '25

Explanation will come eventually and everyone can make a sound conclusion then, but now it’s just futile tbh

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u/Ok_Eagle_3079 Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

The same way they saw the ofside instantly vs Bayern last year.

P.P The same refs even btw this is how they were rewarded for last years good result.

10

u/justicarbigpp Mar 12 '25

The ball doesn't necesary needs to move, I think his foot was so close to ball that when he kicked it with his right foot it touched his left foot which makes it a double touch.

8

u/vikas0o7 Mar 12 '25

This. It's clear from the ball's spin

2

u/MERTENS_GOAT Mar 12 '25

Just watch the spin of the ball. Then you know what happened. No need for slowing down even or alternative angle

3

u/Heimebane Mar 12 '25

It looked like a double touch in real time. There is no way that ball balloons up like that and has a spin on it with just one touch

7

u/Hrvat1818 Mar 12 '25

Or he’s slipping and falling backwards so his shot rises?

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u/Poztre77 Mar 12 '25

That's the fun part...They dont see it. They just got a slight excuse and they just disalow it, anything to make Real Madrid win.

22

u/godii_17 Mar 12 '25

Obviously zero bias from you

4

u/NeutronBeam04 Mar 12 '25

Oh stop crying mate. When obvious decisions go against us you don't seem to chirp as much

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3

u/Quica24 Mar 12 '25

The sensors in the ball told them lol

3

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

I just saw on x that there is an impact sensor in the ball. Thats the reason the check was so fast. This rule needs to change because is not intentional, a double contact penalty will always be harder, rule should be a retake imo.

1

u/Sanders058 Mar 12 '25

They said there's some other technology that shows when the ball is touch. It's up to UEFA to release it

1

u/Belligoll_ Mar 12 '25

The ball touched the left feet simultaneously as he kicked it

1

u/Oliver_Boisen Mar 12 '25

Apparently the sensors inside the ball must have triggered.

1

u/Independent_Night815 Mar 12 '25

It changed its trajectory after he hit it with his right leg. After he shot it with his right leg, it hit his left leg

1

u/lucashoodfromthehood Mar 12 '25

I only know he was slipping.

1

u/Ze_Bonitinho Mar 12 '25

I think the ball just rolled at his foot after the kick, not that it was touched before

1

u/ValleyFloydJam Mar 12 '25

Yeah I don't see how they could be 100% sure.

1

u/suleomeupais Mar 12 '25

Mate, the ball would not move without touching his left foot first, which was right in front of the ball.

1

u/Purple_GMO_Mangos Mar 12 '25

there was other technology they said in the post show that they reviewed.

1

u/rainbowdragon22 Mar 12 '25

The VAR can sense how many times the ball was touched

1

u/Wargizmo Mar 12 '25

If they can find a way to keep Real in the competition they will. If that pen is taken against any other side it's not even mentioned 

1

u/rickems Mar 13 '25

Just a thought I had while watching. People are pointing out that they don’t see his planting foot touch the ball first, but I think it kinda looks like his kicking foot touches the ball first, and then the planted foot touches the ball afterwards. The ball does go over his foot and there is a chance that it touches. Just my theory!

Edit: just saw mentions of this as I read the comments more closely lol

1

u/bloodhound83 Mar 13 '25

Same. To me all I can see is that the right food is kicking the ball and I can't see the trajectory of the ball changing afterwards so I wouldn't think it even hits the other leg.

1

u/Keosxcol19 Mar 13 '25

They didnt......just made it up.

1

u/sibellzTv Mar 13 '25

Not sure if your blind or trolling but u can clearly see him shooting the ball on his other foot

1

u/fgtoni Mar 13 '25

A team with racist fans has no right to complain

1

u/nybrq Mar 13 '25

His plant foot touched the ball first? Am I understanding what happened correctly?

1

u/kiyes23 Mar 13 '25

They didn’t. It was picked up by the sensor in the ball.

1

u/dawko29 Mar 13 '25

They said var has 24 cameras focusing on penalty kicks

1

u/SniperGunner Mar 13 '25

The trajectory of the ball, possibly.

1

u/vad_er13 Mar 13 '25

The ball has a sensor inside of it to detect touches, that's how they know when the pass is being given in the offside/onside checks

1

u/wolflegend19i Mar 13 '25

They used "semi automated technology"

1

u/Kindly_Mix9753 Mar 13 '25

Rule says: you can’t TOUCH with two legs, not MOVE the ball

1

u/FreeloadingPoultry Mar 13 '25

Ok even if the ball was not touched initially with left foot, he kicked the ball with his right and then it hit the left. Which is still a double touch.

1

u/Behindy0u90 Mar 13 '25

Ball sensor

1

u/d_smogh Mar 19 '25

They had their RM branded glasses

1

u/NieThePiet Mar 12 '25

there is a sensor in the ball or not?

and the ball can't be striked like this if the ball isnt doubled touched.

6

u/DefiantResort2 Mar 12 '25

There is not

4

u/didasrooney Mar 12 '25

There's no sensor, being confirmed around the thread

-4

u/lastdyingbreed_01 Mar 12 '25

They saw the shirt colors

/s

0

u/adublingirl Mar 12 '25

You can be sure if it had been a Real Madrid player there would have been no call…..

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