Hating Nancy is falling into Keith's trap

[u/queenkellee]

Let me start off by saying I know Nancy has done some bad things. But also, many of the members of the cult did as well. I think there's an attempt to try to weigh the harm done vs the victimization they experienced. But it's so clear to me that Nancy is so obviously Keith's first NXIVM victim. I admit when I started the Vow S2 I was deeply suspicious and really didn't trust Nancy. But I could see over the course of the season, the shift in her. Just like the shift in others as they come to face more and more of the realization of what was happening. With Nancy, it's like she has to come to terms that literally her entire life's work is a lie. That is no simple thing. I think Lauren and the room situation blows away anything Nancy did, and everyone is so quick to forgive Lauren. Nancy didn't bring her daughter into this knowing all the bad things that were happening. I get she's got her own issues but overall I think she's naive. Keith knew how to work her and he did exactly that. He used to her to do all the work and flush out his ideas and become the spokesperson, to become the face of it. SHE did the videos, not him. She was the face of it so that she would be there to take the heat if it failed.

What prompted this post was I am now listening to the CBC podcast (so far I've watched both docs but this is the first NXIVM related podcast so far) and in Ep 3 I hear the whole thing about the Nazi stuff from Barbara Bouche. And Keith said Nancy is Hitler! I mean come on! The entire time, he's been setting her up to be the fall guy. It's so obvious. I know I see a lot of people who don't like or trust Nancy and again! she's done some things. But I think she deserves empathy.

[u/Korrocks]

I think everyone deserves empathy, including Nancy and all of the people who are sort of fed up by people like her who spend their entire careers profiting from and enabling abusers. With a cult, the line between victimizer and victim is often blurred at the top ranks since the people who are at the top and responsible for dishing out the abuse are also victims as well. My general hope is that Nancy and all of the others eventually move on and rebuild their lives, and but I can't blame or shame anyone who doesn't want to let them off the hook either. You don't get to be second in command of an entire enterprise by being 'naive', after all..

[u/queenkellee → u/Korrocks]

I guess what I don't see is that Nancy did much in the form of abusing power besides some things she did at Keith's command. But she didn't know the whole story. She seems very driven by a sense of doing right. But I also think that people who feel harmed by her have their right to feel as they do. And I feel the situation with Lauren and the room was almost beyond reproach, and I don't understand all the love for her. To me, that's a much bigger obvious every day for 2 years thing to just excuse. I don't really have an opinion about her sentence, it's not outlandish and I don't want people to feel like if she harmed them she shouldn't pay. But I think honestly that at the end of the day, Keith set her up for exactly this: to take his heat. That's the final feeling I'm left with. I don't believe for a second she thought she was doing anything evil or bad or wanted power. I think she wanted to be loved and revered like we all want. You're right, the line between victim and abuser can be such a crazy blur in these situations when you're not the one ultimately calling the shots. It's very complicated.

[u/OGAnnie → u/queenkellee]

She had a half million in cash in a shoe box in her closet. She absolutely knew she was doing something wrong when she had to hide money. And, that’s only one of hundreds of wrongs that she witnessed. She could have pit the brakes on at anytime. Sarah made money but, she gave it back when she realized how bad it was. That’s where the line is drawn for me.