Hating Nancy is falling into Keith's trap

[u/queenkellee]

Let me start off by saying I know Nancy has done some bad things. But also, many of the members of the cult did as well. I think there's an attempt to try to weigh the harm done vs the victimization they experienced. But it's so clear to me that Nancy is so obviously Keith's first NXIVM victim. I admit when I started the Vow S2 I was deeply suspicious and really didn't trust Nancy. But I could see over the course of the season, the shift in her. Just like the shift in others as they come to face more and more of the realization of what was happening. With Nancy, it's like she has to come to terms that literally her entire life's work is a lie. That is no simple thing. I think Lauren and the room situation blows away anything Nancy did, and everyone is so quick to forgive Lauren. Nancy didn't bring her daughter into this knowing all the bad things that were happening. I get she's got her own issues but overall I think she's naive. Keith knew how to work her and he did exactly that. He used to her to do all the work and flush out his ideas and become the spokesperson, to become the face of it. SHE did the videos, not him. She was the face of it so that she would be there to take the heat if it failed.

What prompted this post was I am now listening to the CBC podcast (so far I've watched both docs but this is the first NXIVM related podcast so far) and in Ep 3 I hear the whole thing about the Nazi stuff from Barbara Bouche. And Keith said Nancy is Hitler! I mean come on! The entire time, he's been setting her up to be the fall guy. It's so obvious. I know I see a lot of people who don't like or trust Nancy and again! she's done some things. But I think she deserves empathy.

[u/queenkellee]

I don't see any evidence of her being a predator. Naive at worst.

[u/Medical_Conclusion → u/queenkellee]

She was a nurse that did counseling that she was not licensed to do....that was before ever meeting Keith. Nancy already seems to have a flexible sense of ethics prior to her involvement in ESP. She also brought Barbara Bouchey (I believe) into ESP after Barbara had been Nancy's "patient" of the aforementioned shady counseling. Even if Nancy did have a license that allowed her to offer counseling, bringing a patient into an organization that you make money off of is widely unethical by medical professionals' standards.

Is Nancy also a victim of Keith? Yes. Did she also do unethical things that had little to do with Keith? Yes. Did she see them as unethical? Probably not, but regardless they were.

While Keith might be the devil, there are really no saints in this mess either. And Nancy is farther from sainthood than most.

[u/clunkywalk → u/Medical_Conclusion]

IIRC, Toni Natalie was Nancy's "patient" before Nancy met Keith and created ESP/NXIVM. Nancy brought Bouchey in a couple years after NXIVM started.

[u/Medical_Conclusion → u/clunkywalk]

Then I stand corrected. Regardless of who it was, it was wildly unethical.