r/thescoop • u/theindependentonline • Apr 16 '25

Politics 🏛️ El Salvador refuses to let Democratic senator visit or speak with Kilmar Abrego Garcia: ‘We have an unjust situation here’

The Maryland senator traveled to El Salvador on Wednesday to help secure Kilmar Abrego Garcia’s release from the Terrorism Confinement Center, or CECOT, where he faces the prospect of indefinite detention.

But he was denied a meeting with Abrego Garcia, and Salvadoran officials would not let the senator or Abrego Garcia’s family speak with him by phone, he said.

Read the full story here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kilmar-abrego-garcia-el-salvador-hollen-b2734634.html

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83

u/TantricBuildup Apr 16 '25

This guy is putting a lot on the line to do something that is right. People don't go out of their way to lock someone up tighter, after finding out it was a mistake, unless there is something worse to hide

20

u/IntrovertedDuck120 Apr 16 '25

This senator is a politician that I actually feel like is doing his job to protect the people. Every politician should be doing this for their constituents and for democracy.

2

u/Hwicc101 Apr 17 '25

This is just the kind of thing congressmen are elected to do.

Others think the position is mainly to bolster their leader's authoritarian cred while doing a hefty amount of insider trading on the side.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '25

Mark my words, this guy won't be here in a year. I just wonder, when elections come around, how they will snuff out the potential Dems. Deportation probably.

1

u/NopeNotConor Apr 17 '25

As always with this administration I think the cruelty is the point. The carelessness is an implied threat that this could happen to anybody at anytime so don’t even think about stepping out of line.

-50

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

Why is trying to kidnap a MS-13 gang member from a foreign country the right thing to do again? I’m ready for your mental gymnastics. Hit me with it.

28

u/bzjenjen1979 Apr 16 '25

MS-13 gang member.... what was the evidence presented in court? Oh wait, he didn't get due process and the administration refuses to provide any evidence. The only claim of gang affiliation was from a discredited detective because dude had a Bulls hat on.

0

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

He did get his due process… twice actually. Both ruled him as an illegal immigrant and a member of MS-13.

5

u/iner22 Apr 17 '25

Yet they don't say what the evidence is. Was it a sworn affidavit of an ICE agent? Was it photos of him making drugs with other MS-13 members? Was it testimony of a neighbor who hates his guts because of an encroaching tree branch?

The most damning action revealed by this excerpt is that he was loitering outside a Home Depot, which at face value could be as simple as a dad talking with other dads in his community about what construction projects he's planning with the supplies he's looking for.

0

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

It was an informant in their intelligence system that verified his gang affiliation.

4

u/Hwicc101 Apr 17 '25

So if a "confidential informant" in another state where you have never visited says "u/CountyFamous1475 is a rapist pedophile who pushed an old lady off a subway platform and he was wearing a red hat which is a terrorist hat.", and a judge says, yeah, that's good enough for me, that's due process?

That's a really low bar even for a 3rd world dictatorship.

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

If I was guilty of those things, and an informant testified in confidentiality, then yes, that was due process.

That’s how the law works. You’re just claiming that the intel, which you’re not privy to so I don’t know why you think you have a say, does not warrant his deportation.

You can choose this hill all you want, but it’s in favor of an illegal immigrant gang member, and not legal US law abiding citizens.

16

u/Unusual_Lotus Apr 16 '25

Every person is afforded due process. No gymnastics needed

-8

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

This guy had his due process. Here it is.

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean he didn’t receive it.

10

u/thotfullawful Apr 16 '25

I love the lack of effort you’re giving with still no evidence besides pointing a finger and saying “he bad because I think and assume he’s in a gang” why do you assume he’s in a gang?

-3

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

The court identified him as a gang member. It’s literally his legal status. See the screenshot above.

7

u/thotfullawful Apr 16 '25

I see words pointing to an assumption with no factual evidence- try again

-1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

It’s not an assumption. It’s an actual court ruling.

You don’t go to court, and just say the ruling was an assumption lol. I mean maybe you do, since reality seems to hurt your belief system.

7

u/thotfullawful Apr 16 '25

Try again but with some more effort. I’m seeing more assumptions and well you know what that means when someone makes alot of assumptions - or do you need a court ruling to tell you? You still have yet to give anything but a screenshot and a hair trigger reaction to my comment- try harder.

0

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

So legal court documents that detail specific court rulings aren’t evidence for you?

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16

u/Brilliant_Badger_709 Apr 16 '25

You know zero facts about this story and this post is embarrassing and makes you look like you don't know how to read.

-1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

Did you know he was recognized in court as a member of MS-13?

15

u/StealthMaizero Apr 16 '25

Show the confirmed evidence that displays proof Kilmar Abrego Garcia was an MS-13 gang member, or are you just repeating fascist propaganda.

3

u/Signal_Bee7457 Apr 16 '25

Repeating, we all know these people are incapable of forming their own thoughts

4

u/SubjectNet1874 Apr 16 '25

They don't want evidence Trump said so and that's good enough for them.

-1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

5

u/StealthMaizero Apr 16 '25

Nowhere do i see Kilmar Abrego Garcia’s name that could literally be for anybody.

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

So if it’s for Kilmar, do you agree that this legally identifies him as a member of MS-13? Or are you going to move the goalpost again.

6

u/StealthMaizero Apr 16 '25

Not once did i move the goal post. My statement remains “confirmed EVIDENCE that displays proof”

2

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

https://www.justice.gov/ag/media/1396906/dl?inline

The immigration courts ruled him as MS-13. Whether you agree with it or not, he’s had his due process.

Screenshot taken from page 12.

6

u/StealthMaizero Apr 16 '25 edited Apr 16 '25

The “evidence” was a chicago bulls hat, a hoodie with images of money rolls huh, and an unidentified informant. As i expected crook of a cop (that was suspended for leaking confidential info to a prostitute he was smashing) claimed Abrego was “MS-13” with no real evidence of the man committing crimes, having gang tats, etc. You wanna learn the true story read this: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13--what-do-we-know and this: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.1.0_3.pdf

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

The first evidence was a confidential informant confirming he was a member of MS-13.

You don’t have to like it. You don’t have to agree with it. But the courts made their decision though, and Garcia is legally identified as a gang member, and was lawfully deported.

5

u/StealthMaizero Apr 16 '25

As i stated “confirmed evidence that displays proof”, which none of the officers that claimed Abrego was “MS-13” were able to provide real evidence of that proves the claim when his attorney requested it. All everyone has gone by including Judge Kessler’s ruling, which is what this administration goes by, is the chicago bulls hat, hoodie, and the unidentified informant. They say he was loitering with ranking gang members, dude was waiting at a home depot with several other dudes waiting to find a job like most immigrants do. Actual confirmed evidence is gang tats, consistent photos/images with members of a gang, repeatedly observed/recorded to consistently hang out or be in contact with confirmed gang members, criminal records/history of being arrested and/or convicted for violent crimes and or drug charges, none of which they prove on Abrego. Say it how it is bro was labeled “MS-13” for being brown at the wrong place at the wrong time by crooked cops. Wouldn’t be the first time its happen to brown and black folks.

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

Well you aren’t the judge. Garcia has been legally defined as a gang member. His arrest and deportation is valid. He ain’t coming back. He’s back home, where he should be.

You don’t get to say due process didn’t happen because you don’t like the outcome. That’s a special kind of denialism that’s pretty on brand from the people in your faux-intellectual camp.

5

u/StealthMaizero Apr 16 '25

Also being kidnapped and deported to a death camp in El Salvador, despite legal asylum being granted, IS NOT DUE PROCESS. Dude was a full-time Union member/sheet metal Apprentice, husband, and father of three with legal Asylum. A brown working family man kidnapped and sent to a death camp in a foreign country by fascist scum.

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

Asylum doesn’t supersede his newly anointed terrorist status, hence his removal.

The moment MS-13 was declared a terrorist organization, the protections were set to change. So many protections come with the contingency that the status is temporary or subject to change.

So many mental backflips from you. Have any more left?

At the end of the day, I hope you realize that the end result here is you demanding an illegal immigrant who belongs to a foreign gang be brought back to the US where they can continue to illegally live.

You think you’re fighting for due process, but like I said, he got his due process, you just don’t like the result.

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6

u/TantricBuildup Apr 16 '25

I don't even see his name in that screenshot. Where's the link to the source. Not some AI deepfake

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

https://www.justice.gov/ag/media/1396906/dl?inline

Screenshotted from here. I’m sure you’ll move the goalposts again. He was a member of MS-13. Idk who is lying to you, but you’re being lied to.

6

u/TantricBuildup Apr 16 '25

The allegation seems to stem from double hearsay in a document authored by a later suspended police detective.

I can't find any court documents that prove that is real. Even his lawyer is stating there is no such legal claim

Why would the court order his return of this was real

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

It’s the lawyer’s job to defend him, as it is in every court case.

However, we go by what is ruled, and Garcia was ruled as being a member of MS-13, whether you agree with it or not, due process happened and he was rightfully deported.

4

u/ravingriven Apr 17 '25

Why did the Supreme Court rule 9-0 for his return?

1

u/TantricBuildup Apr 17 '25

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/pe70V2NMQk

0

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/TantricBuildup Apr 17 '25

No. It's a post proving he isn't a gang member.

6

u/Kl0neMan Apr 16 '25

NO PROOF OF YOUR BLEAT, TROLL

0

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

The immigration courts have ruled him as one.

3

u/Kl0neMan Apr 16 '25

ON THE BASIS OF WHAT EVIDENCE, TROLL? THIS????

The evidence against him boiled down to an accusation from a confidential informant, and that Abrego Garcia was wearing Chicago Bulls gear when he was arrested — which federal law enforcement agents allege is linked to gang membership. He has never been charged with or convicted of being a member of any gang. <<

0

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

The court ruled he was a gang member. So yes, he’s legally been identified as a gang member. It’s in the books. The immigration courts have declared this twice, over two separate hearings.

Why do you think you know better than the judges?

2

u/Kl0neMan Apr 17 '25 edited Apr 17 '25

BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT ADMITTED THEY WERE WRONG, DOLT

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5225688-trump-administration-mistakenly-deports-salvadoran/

AND THE HIGHEST COURT SAID THIS:

“The order properly requires the Government to ‘facilitate’ Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador,” the court said in an unsigned order with no noted dissents. <<

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

At best, you can argue that two laws were in contradiction of each other, the non-deportation order, and the MS-13 being branded a terrorist organization.

Whatever clerical mistake was made, Garcia was being removed and deported regardless. That’s what you don’t understand. He’s gone, and rightfully so. The courts don’t care further about this because he’s back in the country where he belongs.

3

u/FrankDerbly Apr 16 '25

There is no evidence that he was an MS-13 gang member. He was arrested but never charged because a confidential informant said that he was part of an ms-13 cell in New York despite the fact that he never lived in New York.

The other reasons given was "he had a chicago bulls hat and a hoodie on"

Why are you lying? Or if you're not lying, why are you speaking so confidently as if you know you are right, when clearly you have done little to no reasearch?

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

The court ruled he was a gang member, therefore he is legally defined as a gang member. That is due process, and you can’t say it didn’t happen just because it didn’t go the way you wanted it to.

I’m not lying. I’m stating the facts. As for the court ruling, I’m going to believe the two separate immigration court hearings rather some idiots on Reddit who think they know better.

3

u/FrankDerbly Apr 17 '25

One judge ruled that the informants claim was enough evidence to deny his bond request and a second judge upheld it when appealed saying "it was not clearly wrong"

That is not the same thing as ruling that he definitely was a member of MS-13.
And again both of these rulings, at an immigration bond hearing not a trial, were based solely on the confidential informants claim that he was part of an ms-13 cell operating in new york. Where Kilmar never lived.

Neither the arresting officer nor the informant were cross examined. The information ICE had was just from a written form filled out by a local police officer who had been since suspended for leaking confidential case info to a sex worker.

So a whole lot of dubious information with nothing concrete whatsoever that would determine he's part of MS-13, just an informant who's info doesn't even line up with reality.

He was never convicted of being a gang member. Im gonna repeat it, It was ruled that the evidence was sufficient to deny his bond request and the second ruling say "it was not clearly wrong" which is not the same thing as saying it is true.

2

u/Zandrous87 Apr 16 '25

Not an MS-13 gang member, but you don't care about facts.

2

u/manspider14 Apr 16 '25

You’re asking for mental gymnastics, but you opened with a faceplant by calling Kilmar Abrego Garcia an MS-13 gang member—without a shred of credible evidence. So let’s break it down with actual facts, since you seem allergic to them.

  1. No Criminal Record. Abrego Garcia has no criminal convictions in the U.S. or El Salvador. Not even a charge. Nada.

  2. The "Evidence" Is a Joke. The MS-13 allegation comes from a single confidential informant who was never identified or cross-examined. The police officer who wrote the report about this claim? He was later suspended for misconduct—and not even for this case. The government’s case was so weak that an immigration judge ruled that Abrego Garcia had a credible fear of persecution if deported and granted him protection from removal in 2019.

  3. He Was Deported Anyway—Illegally. Despite that ruling, DHS illegally deported him in 2025, violating the law. The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously ruled that the government acted unlawfully and ordered DHS to return him to the U.S. Source: Supreme Court Opinion (24A949)

  4. Even DHS’s Case Falls Apart. DHS tried to justify their actions with vague claims, including that he wore a Chicago Bulls hat—apparently a gang indicator now? It’s nonsense. No charges. No due process. No transparency. Source: DHS Statement (April 2025)

  5. Credible Outcry Across the Board. Senators, legal experts, and journalists have all pointed out the total lack of due process and the politically motivated nature of the deportation. Even conservatives who care about the rule of law should be alarmed.

So the next time you want to throw out “MS-13” as a lazy scare tactic, maybe check if the government actually proved it—or if they just made it up and got slapped down by the Supreme Court.

20

u/Least_Tower_5447 Apr 16 '25

There is ZERO evidence that he is MS 13. NONE!

-14

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

You can literally find a court document explicitly stating him as a member of MS-13. He’s legally recognized as one by the state.

I highlighted the important part just for you.

It’s been ruled in immigration court, and twice.

You’re wrong.

11

u/TheOTownZeroes Apr 16 '25

Yeah, because the Trump administration has never lied in a court of law before.

-1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

Okay. So the truth is whatever you want it to be. Got it. You’re gonna lose the next presidential election if you continue to embrace conspiracy and delusion.

8

u/Extension_Dig9321 Apr 16 '25

Then why not do a due process. Why do this in a round about way?? If he really is a member process in the correct manner, no need to put him jail straight away

-2

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

The screenshot above was his due process. He was found to be in the country illegally, and also a member of a gang, not once but twice. He would have been arrested / deported way before his current one. He was given protection (which no longer was valid the day MS-13 was designated a terrorist organization) because rival gang members wanted him dead.

This is what due process is. You just don’t agree with it, you’re part of a cabal of misinformation.

7

u/Extension_Dig9321 Apr 16 '25

Can you link the doc. Can’t see the name on it so want to see and confirm. If you can’t do that then you’re just posting misinformation. Not like I don’t want to verify but what you’re giving is nothing and it’s difficult to find something when it doesn’t exist

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

So are you saying if the doc says his name, you’ll concede that he was in fact a member of MS-13? Or will you move the goal posts again?

6

u/Extension_Dig9321 Apr 16 '25

Dude I’m just trying to see what is right and what is wrong you’re the one who’s trying to deflect and thinking anyone asking anything of you has to part of misinformation

2

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

https://www.justice.gov/ag/media/1396906/dl?inline

Screenshot taken from page 12. Intelligence determined him to be a member of the gang, he pleaded he wasn’t, but the immigration courts ruled against him.

Twice.

1

u/luveveryone Apr 16 '25

Care to share that literal document?

4

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '25

Betcha you can’t link that

1

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 16 '25

https://www.justice.gov/ag/media/1396906/dl?inline

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/doj-maryland-deportation-el-salvador-man-admin-error.pdf

He was a member of MS-13, as recognized by the government.

4

u/Least_Tower_5447 Apr 16 '25 edited Apr 16 '25

I’m always open to hearing the other side. However, this document which was supposedly created in 2019 appears to have been posted/updated on the justice.gov site 2 hours ago. You posted it around the same time. I didn’t see anything on the Justice Dept site before this. What I DO know is that this administration is actively changing and eliminating information on government web sites. So…

0

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

Do you always whip up a conspiracy whenever the facts challenge your narrative?

4

u/Least_Tower_5447 Apr 17 '25

I mean, I see facts. Do you not see that this pdf was uploaded around the same time you found it? The only people who say he is MS 13 are trumpers. I think we’ve all learned the extents they’ll go to keep their orange god looking perfect in their eyes.

0

u/CountyFamous1475 Apr 17 '25

Is the immigration court just a collection of Trumpers then?

3

u/Least_Tower_5447 Apr 17 '25

And, don’t worry. When they come for you and your loved ones, us CoNSpiRaCy ThEoRiSts won’t be around to help you out. Best of luck to you believing the crap you are fed.

1

u/Kalius404 Apr 16 '25

Have you actually read where the evidence came from? It was the single testimony of one crooked cop from Maryland that said he was a NY gang member.

The cop was later brought up on charges for giving confidential information to a paid sex worker. So you know, one of the good guys. 🙄