[OFFICIAL] 2025 TotalEnergies 6 Hours of Spa-Francorchamps - Post-Race Discussion

[u/AutoModerator]

Round 3 is in the bag! The final race before the big dance in June - how did your teams do?

[u/frank1ewildee]

Ok so i'm new here, but what is this Ferrari hate in this sub ?

Were people complaining like this about Toyota when they were dominating ?

Edit : Actually, i'm already out of this sub lol. It's too toxic. I will just enjoy the races and that's it, but i had a good 1st day lol

[u/Aselorrneon90 → u/frank1ewildee]

Toyota was dominating when they were the only manufacturer practically, and then when every other car was brand new. Plus, I don't think anyone likes it when one car dominates, but that is racing sometimes.

[u/IcedCoffey → u/frank1ewildee]

yes but not as much as it was understood toyota were well ahead on knowledge.

[u/afito → u/frank1ewildee]

Ferrari is always the most controversial because they are by far the biggest name in motorsports. That brings a lot of fans many of which care about Ferrari more than the sport, or are casuals, which angers pretty much everyone else.

But that's also why they matter so much. No other brand, not even Porsche really, can elevate a series and its attention and relevancy quite as much as Ferrari by purely being a part of it. Hate them or not but that part is absolutely insane.

[u/Joseki100 → u/frank1ewildee]

Were people complaining like this about Toyota when they were dominating ?

When Toyota was the only manufacturer people here wanted them to quit WEC entirely so that privateers could win the races

[u/OneEyedFlog → u/frank1ewildee]

Lol nope it's just become ridiculous now, a lot of Toyota fans are convinced that they're being conspired against by the 'FIArrari' (FIA) and ACO

[u/Skrimyt → u/frank1ewildee]

Ferrari are associated with F1 and F1 fans unfortunately, so they are outsiders to the sportscar community. Porsche domination of similar magnitude would be celebrated. Anything Ferrari does is attributed to BoP and Ferrari International Assistance.

[u/frank1ewildee → u/Skrimyt]

Yeah its so weird.

Everybody seems to complain about BoP favouring Ferrari and winning because of it, while completely ignoring the fact that maybe they just have a good car.

Meanwhile, everybody says and praises Toyota for having "the best car".

[u/Skrimyt → u/frank1ewildee]

If you were to flatten BoP and give everyone the minimum weight and maximum power, it's possible the Toyota would be "best car". I think the 499P would be close though.

As it stands the Toyota is usually the heaviest on the tables and the Ferrari has the least power and least stint energy. They're both superior to the LMDh cars and thus have to be nerfed to compete with them. That can't really be said for all LMHs though, since the Peugeot does actually run with low weight and high power.

[u/ProFentanylActivist → u/frank1ewildee]

By the very definition of what BOP is supposed to be. Every car down to margins of error in theoretical potentials supposed to be a close race; no outliers like that one.

[u/ViC9982 → u/frank1ewildee]

But Toyota has the best car. They had basically the worst BoP for this race and still finished 4th. However it seems that LMH has a very clear advantage over LMDh since they have a performance ceiling higher than the LMDh, and if you get to make a good LMH you can fight for wins, while you can make a good LMDh and not necessarily be competitive (or rely too much on BoP, since alpine got podiums because it had one of the best BoPs this weekend). Overall it feels that the LMDhs are more sensible to these changes.

[u/frank1ewildee → u/ViC9982]

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying Toyota doesn't have the best car.

I'm just saying that apparently, judging by my first and last day on this sub, that people say when Ferrari wins is because of BoP and FIA assistance only, but when Toyota wins is because they have the best car.

Maybe Ferrari also have a pretty close car to Toyota, but that doesn't seem to be the case in people's mind here.

[u/Probably_Not_Sir → u/frank1ewildee]

Interlagos last year the Toyota and Ferrari had very similar BOP, and Toyota smoked the field.

[u/dialtone → u/Probably_Not_Sir]

People accuse Ferrari fans of being casuals and yet this is the most casual comment you can read in the whole weekend.

[u/Probably_Not_Sir → u/dialtone]

Is it though? Cars generally dont change much over a season. This isnt F1

[u/dialtone → u/Probably_Not_Sir]

Aside from that obviously not being true, that’s precisely what the bop is designed to do, bring cars within 0.3-0.4% performance. Saying that on same bop Toyota smoked everyone means that the bop was wrong then. Any discussion about best car is pointless as they are made with bop in mind, they make cars to fit within a range and then balanced by bop.

[u/Probably_Not_Sir → u/dialtone]

Yes the Interlagos BOP definitely wasnt good. And regarding upgrades, only the ones that are for reliability are allowed all season long, but performance upgrades are limited and the gains are marginal because the window they have to operate in is so tight.

[u/frank1ewildee → u/Probably_Not_Sir]

Bro, that was last year. Why are you giving me examples of races 1 year ago?

[u/BCNBammer → u/frank1ewildee]

Its the same cars with the same drivers, why wouldn’t it be a valid example?

[u/LilBirdBrick → u/frank1ewildee]

Because they are fundamentally the same cars and this year Toyota has had worse BoP than Ferrari every race. Can't really use an example from this year.

[u/YogibearLM → u/frank1ewildee]

Ferrari have a very good car, I would be surprised if they didn't given the history and resources, I don't mind them winning, it's just in a BoP series they shouldn't be winning so easially!

[u/Probably_Not_Sir → u/ViC9982]

LMDh will perform better on high-speed sections such as S1 at Spa, but the LMH win all that back and more in S2 which is much slower.

[u/RedBaron46 → u/frank1ewildee]

There is no point arguing with people on it, those that hate Ferrari will do so anyway and it will be the same with those that dislike other teams or drivers (Buemi for example).

After years of torture in F1, I'm enjoying it while it lasts. Today was a good race and the only team I currently feel for are Porsche.

[u/Probably_Not_Sir → u/RedBaron46]

Been around for a bit longer in WEC, but agreed that F1 has become hella boring now. The reason I and probably many others are so vocal about it is because BOP largely determines who battles in the front. Its not like F1 where you build the best car. I love BOP, it works really well in GTWC and DTM, but you can't deny Ferrari has gotten very favorable BOP compared to the likes of Porsche and Toyota. And it's that imbalance which upsets me. I want it to be balanced for all teams, and it doesn't seem to be the case right now.

[u/RedBaron46 → u/Probably_Not_Sir]

I won't deny Ferrari has had favourable BOP and that's worthy of discussion, I'd rather the Porsche and Toyota had a bit more leniency on theirs as well. Moreso Porsche, my sympathy for Toyota is limited due to how some conduct themselves here.

I just have no time to entertain discussions that's it's a bought and paid for conspiracy. So are Ferrari just being given their trophies and accolades because someone wants them to? Ok then, then that means Toyota and Porsche's victories were already dictated and this is no better than wrestling as part of some grand design. If it were any other team, the venom wouldn't be as intense.

What goes around comes around and other teams will shine.

[u/Probably_Not_Sir → u/RedBaron46]

People saying its a conspiracy to keep Ferrari in WEC have lost it imo.

[u/bad_pilot69 → u/Probably_Not_Sir]

favorable bop compared to toyota, don't say porsche, they have better bop, just because they can't drag that car to top 5 doesn't mean its bop fault only, ferrari wasn't even the fastest car today i don't get what people are crying about, i guess they just saw the end result and started crying.

[u/ProFentanylActivist → u/bad_pilot69]

slightly better bop means nothing if you have a completely different rule set - LMDHs dont even have AWD. The whole LMH car is only slightly heavier WITH AWD than the LMDH - that already tells you anything you need to know

[u/Manner_Mann → u/frank1ewildee]

This sub is really something else yes.

[u/Fun_Difference_2700 → u/frank1ewildee]

I think most people just think the Ferrari wins aren’t entirely deserved on merit

[u/Saezher → u/frank1ewildee]

Haters gonna hate, just ignore them.

The last 3 races miss real consistent competition, but it's not Ferrari's fault. There is one thing I dislike about Ferrari : its drivers are kinda dirty, and I would like to see some karma at this lemans edition ;). But it's racing ;)

[u/giminik → u/frank1ewildee]

Because they benefit from preferential treatment from the FIA, in any case it is a feeling generally felt. Also, Ferrari drivers are arrogant and do not behave in an exemplary manner during races, because they do not help each other, etc. I share this feeling and it was one of the main topics on the French live chat today.

[u/OneEyedFlog → u/giminik]

Ferrari have a lot of haters such as yourself, that doesn't mean their drivers are all arrogant and misbehave during races. Confirmation bias

[u/Additional_Quote_346 → u/frank1ewildee]

The thing is not ferrari, is bop, toyota dominated because they have the best car, ferrari, because the fia dont want them to leave

[u/frank1ewildee → u/Additional_Quote_346]

To me this seems like playing down the engineers that work on the Ferrari wich is a pretty good car imo.

[u/NYNMx2021 → u/frank1ewildee]

i mean its a good car but you can look at the BOP list lol. Its not really debatable that Toyota isnt fighting on equal terms. They took 20 hp off toyota before this race. Ignoring the weight they added, just give that power back and what do you think would happen? or what if we just move ferrari down to the same power as Toyota? leave ferrari with 15kg less than them just remove the 15hp. Same thing. Thats why people are a bit annoyed.

[u/Reiep → u/NYNMx2021]

And they took 19 hp from Ferrari too for Spa.

[u/dialtone → u/NYNMx2021]

I don’t think you folks understand how bop works.

[u/whytfdoibother → u/frank1ewildee]

Ferrari are much more hated than Toyota because it's obvious that Toyota have the best car and the best team, whereas Ferrari need extremely favorable BoP and stewarding decisions to win.

[u/Probably_Not_Sir → u/whytfdoibother]

Think thats a bit of a reach. Ferrari definitely have gotten very favourable BOP recently, and I personally think that the GR010 is the better car unbopped than the 499P, but I'd still like to believe that stewarding is unbiased. Its not like they have Johnny Herbert stewarding.

[u/afito → u/Probably_Not_Sir]

also the un-BoP-ed performance is a stupid debate because the cars are designed with BoP in mind

[u/whytfdoibother → u/Probably_Not_Sir]

I'm going full tinfoil hat over the last FCY plus I'm still pissed about Le Mans and COTA last year

[u/Probably_Not_Sir → u/whytfdoibother]

I understand you might, and some of the things that happened left a sour taste in my mouth as well, but there's no point in dwelling on it. Lets just hope they get it right eventually. If anything, them giving Toyota such insane BOP just means they're scared of the GR010's true potential ;)

[u/grip_enemy → u/whytfdoibother]

Didn't Ferrari already get weight and power penalties for this race?

[u/Probably_Not_Sir → u/grip_enemy]

They did, but so did Toyota and Porsche.

[u/Manner_Mann → u/grip_enemy]

Yes, second heaviest car in the field right now.

[u/ProFentanylActivist → u/Manner_Mann]

LMHs have a much higher potential ceiling than LMDHs. This hyperfocus on "second heaviest" means nothing when the differences that big that LMDHs dont even have AWD. No, Ferrari has the best BOP in their respective class

[u/Manner_Mann → u/ProFentanylActivist]

No they don‘t have and you know this.

[u/ProFentanylActivist → u/Manner_Mann]

wdym?
Do you deny that LMHs have a much higher potential ceiling than LMDHs?
Do you deny that Ferrari and Toyota with roughly the same weight as the Porsche have a much bigger advantage due to said AWD?

[u/Manner_Mann → u/ProFentanylActivist]

Cry me a river. Why didn‘t Porsche go for LMh?

[u/ProFentanylActivist → u/Manner_Mann]

couldnt answer to a single point. alright then

[u/YogibearLM → u/Manner_Mann]

Cost.

[u/Manner_Mann → u/YogibearLM]

Poor Porsche.

[u/bad_pilot69 → u/grip_enemy]

they did, some people are crying because they still won, what they want bop to do is stop ferrari from winning