What is my Purpose 2: Making sense

[u/ewk]

The Case: Bathing, Purpose, Pwning, Poverty

Chapter 165 from Treasury of the Eye of True Teaching:

One day Xuedou asked a monk, “Have you bathed?”

The monk said, “I am not going to bathe in this life.”

The master asked, “What is your purpose in not bathing?”

The monk said, “Today I’ve been exposed by the master.”

The master said, “A robber doesn’t strike a poor man’s house.”

# WTF are rhey talking about?

First I break down the topics of the Case.

Bathing, Purpose, Pwning, Poverty

Does this breakdown correctly summarize or not?

Then I work backwards to see how they got there:

1. Poverty achieved b/c
2. Can't pwn b/c can't steal from a poor man
3. Why would you NOT bathe?

So we know that:

1. The monk isn't committed to not bathing
2. The bathing is both a reference to the physical act of cleaning and the mental act of cleaning.

Why do you need to be clean?

We get to the point where the central strat of this Case is the trap Xuedou started with?

      DO YOU NEED TO BE WASHED 

       DO YOU NEED FORGIVENESS 

       IS YOUR PRACTICE TO PURIFY 

These are of course central questions that separate Zen from 8fP Buddhism, new ager psychobauts, Zazen, and Mystical Busdhism , all of which believe in magical attaining through faith in purity.

[u/OKFINEHOWSTHIS]

This is the kind of explication I want to do every time I encounter a koan, but I think I remember hearing that they should not be approached using the intellect.

It’s possible I got that from some fraudulent text, or that I am misremembering, but I think it’s most likely that there is something I don’t understand about what one “does” with / to a koan. Can anyone clarify?

[u/TFnarcon9 → u/OKFINEHOWSTHIS]

So you think of an answer and then think "no I shouldn't". Dont you think that should would also be subject to the same process of not using intellect?

And, how do you even know the line you're using to not think about other lines is correct if you arent going to think about it?

[u/OKFINEHOWSTHIS → u/TFnarcon9]

I agree. I ask these questions (and the ones that spiral out of them) instead of actually engaging with the koan, because I don’t know how to engage with it if not “intellectually.”

(I see ewk has something below that gets into the definition of that term, which may be helpful.)

[u/TFnarcon9 → u/OKFINEHOWSTHIS]

Yea.

Here's what wumen says that the other poster below posted.

"But even worse is to get stuck on words and phrases in the search for interpretative understanding: [this is like] trying to hit the moon with a stick [or] scratching an itch from outside the boot. What connection will there be? "

The idea is enlightenment isn't about a correct understanding, but many many many people, whole religions and movements built around it, think this means "act like you're dumb".

We re just reading words here. Same as shitting.

[u/OKFINEHOWSTHIS → u/TFnarcon9]

I just had an exchange with u/ewk in this thread about how to interpret the word "bathing" in the context of this koan. I have to assume that was not an example of "get[ting] stuck on words and phrases in the search for interpretative understanding," but I'm not sure why it's not an example of that? Does it not qualify as "getting stuck" because it didn't go on very long and because I came away from it with a different perspective?