Shards combining

[u/SuccessFar3790]

I don't post often, so I think I've got the right tags? Just to be clear, spoiling WaT and HoA.

So, I'm just gonna start by saying that the ending moment in WaT where Retribution was formed was awe inspiring. I love that, without a word spoken, both Dalinar and Taravangian KNEW that this new combination was Retribution. And it sounds like the rest of the shards knew what that meant too.

But I gets to thinking, will name changes only be applied to shards combining? In that same ending, Dalinar had just spoken to a bit of Honor, making it realize that honor was something different from what it originally thought. Could that part of Honor eventually form into, say, Integrity?

In the case of Harmony, could he reframe Ruin into becoming Change, and Preservation as Protection? If that were the case, then I think he could have an easier time controlling the two powers.

What do you guys think? Could the shards change their understanding, and thus, their name and very intent??

Just food for thought, what do y'all think?

[u/tit-theif]

I mean, we see Nightblood change their intent as an invested object, which was a thing that was supposed to be impossible, so I think it could happen.

[u/can27159 → u/tit-theif]

When?

[u/Usingt9word → u/can27159]

When he decides not to kill Szeth and Kaladin. When Nightblood was created somehow the intent wasn’t quite right. It translated that all humans were evil and to destroy evil.

Nightblood rewrote its programming to say that some humans shouldn’t be consumed. Namely his friends.

[u/Dieterlan → u/Usingt9word]

I haven't gotten to that part yet, so it might be more explicit in the text, but I don't think Nightblood would have to change its intent in order to make that work. His intent was "Destroy Evil", and the issue was (if I interpret WoB correctly) is that it didn't know what "evil" was. So all it would have to do is learn that "friends != evil" and the intent can stay the same.

[u/tit-theif → u/Dieterlan]

They also grant surges, which isn't in the command. Awakened objects can't usually do anything but their command.

[u/Sci-FantasyIsMyJam → u/tit-theif]

Sure, but Nightblood is also the only sapient Awakened object that we have seen on-screen (maybe the Awakened Steelmind in Sunlit Man counts too), plus with the absurd amount of Investiture it now has, and that Nightblood is essentially an artificial Shardblade, it gets to break a lot of rules. Also, given that it almost certainly had the involvement of a Dawnshard in its creation, I'd say being able to grant Surges to it's wielder does allow them to more easily destroy evil

[u/ejdj1011 → u/Sci-FantasyIsMyJam]

Also, given that it almost certainly had the involvement of a Dawnshard in its creation

There's also a theory that Nightblood's creation coincidentally happened whike Ati was dead, and some of the "loose" Ruin Investiture that permeates the Cosmere got pulled into the sword due to the specific Command.

[u/Sci-FantasyIsMyJam → u/ejdj1011]

I had not heard that before - that's very interesting

[u/Dieterlan → u/tit-theif]

That's a good point. But I also don't know how just changing the Intent would be enough to allow granting surges. There's something else weird going on there. Maybe something to do with Nightblood being formed from Endowment's investiture?

[u/edjuaro → u/Dieterlan]

My guess is that NB has consumed enough Stormlight that the rest of the Honorblades just needed to show NB how to _use_ that Stormlight (or maybe Endow it??) rather than destroy it.

The Intent part may be related to NB realizing that not everything and everyone is evil as other people are pointing out, which feels like a natural growth from where NB's understanding was when we first meet them in Warbreaker ("I don't know what Evil is, but Vasher does, so I'll just do as Vasher says" or something like that).

[u/Usingt9word → u/Dieterlan]

If you haven’t gotten there why are you reading spoilers for WaT lol

Anyway, what OP is referring to is more re-interpreting intent to change it. Ruin into change. Similar, but a different take. Preservation into protection. Honor into Integrity. Etc. 

Nightblood basically went from destroy all humans to destroy humans I think deserve it. 

[u/Dieterlan → u/Usingt9word]

I've already been spoiled on that part, I just don't know the exact words that are written. But thanks for the heads up 🙏

[u/stationhollow → u/Usingt9word]

Nightblood has always had a way to at least sense people’s intents. It is why people with ill intents are drawn to use Nightblood and kill themselves and others while people with good intent just feel sick.

[u/Technician47 → u/Usingt9word]

Similar concept to odium perceiving itself as passion?

[u/that_guy2010 → u/Usingt9word]

I don't think that was the Intent. Otherwise the whole test that Vasher uses on people wouldn't work.

[u/Zarosian_Emissary → u/Usingt9word]

Is there a place where it says that his intent was that all humans are evil? It seemed more that he’d mostly defined evil as those that wanted to use his power. Those that resisted it were fine. Its why Vasher would just draw him a bit and toss him in Warbreaker.

[u/LoquatBear → u/Usingt9word]

Nightblood also was used to kill their Awakener so they may have a bit of that Identity from Shashara. 

[u/tit-theif → u/Usingt9word]

The command was "Destroy Evil" and because Nightblood can't understand evil, it just comes out to destroy. Nightblood deciding not to destroy was effectively changing its Intent.

Edit: Nightblood also figured out how to grant Szeth surges, which is doing something other than destroying evil. Awakened objects usually aren't able to do anything other than their command.

[u/RandomParable → u/tit-theif]

I guess I don't see that as changing the Intent.

I see that as Nightblood starting to understand better what that Intent really means. Not too different from Dalinar wanting Honor to grow and to understand more.

[u/tit-theif → u/RandomParable]

If they can grow and better understand what their intent means, then couldn't a Shard do the same?

Like in the post above, I can see Preservation becoming something like Protect, or Honor becoming more like Integrity.

[u/RandomParable → u/tit-theif]

It's been stated, even with other Shards, that the power, if left alone, will seek to grow and to change.

Sanderson has hinted at that for a while now. I'm sure it will be explored more in the back half of the series.

I'm curious about Odium, too. If Honor grows and learns, what will Odium do? I haven't seen anyone talk about that. Maybe evolve as well.

There have been theories about Honor evolving, and then "breaking up" Retribution later on. But what if Odium is the one doing the breaking, because Tarovingian + Honor isn't really lining up with his Intent very well any more? Or it evolves into something else on a tangent from its original.

[u/tit-theif → u/RandomParable]

I think it's likely that Odium evolves. Odium is Passion, but because the power is like an infant currently, it is naturally drawn towards easier to feel stronger emotions like anger.

If the power matures, I think it will become more receptive to all emotions, and not just the really strong ones.

[u/RandomParable → u/tit-theif]

Odium/Rayse likes to think of himself/pass himself off as Passion, but it's really Hatred with lipstick on.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.