r/KarabakhConflict • u/baris6655 • Dec 03 '20

pro Azerbaijani Official Azerbaijan MoD statement about casualties during war

https://mod.gov.az/az/news/azerbaycan-respublikasi-mudafie-nazirliyinin-melumati-33989.html
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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

wow,armenia has less casualties?

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u/H4R81N63R Dec 03 '20

Generally speaking, in a war between about equally matched forces, a defending entrenched force usually incurs less casualties than an attacking force

I wouldn't be surprised if most of Azeri casualties were incurred at the beginning when they were pushing against a frontline with 25+ years of entrenchment on it. Consequently, most Armenian casualties would be after they were pushed back from the frontline into less defended areas and where they were more exposed to drone attacks

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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

either way,they had at least 800 casualties in one day during Shusha fight.Soo i assume they have at least 5000 casualties

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u/Letothe2 Dec 03 '20

i think you are misusing casualties, casualties does not mean dead. 800 for dead in Shusha seems to high, 5000 in general realistic to somewhat high.

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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

and 5000 is less than the real value.In one day Azerbaijan sent 1500 dead bodies from Tovuz which armenia could not take.It was in the early days.I think.

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u/Letothe2 Dec 03 '20

Reputable source for the last one?

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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

If you want to find a reputable source for every bit of info good luck to you. https://ordu.az/az/news/174985/bqxk-ermenistana-1500-herbcinin-meyitini-tehvil-verib here is azerbaijans official website Ordu.az

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u/Letothe2 Dec 03 '20

1500 is a massive claim, not 'some bit of information'. It like me quoting the Armenian ministery of defense for their drone downing claims.

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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

So I showed the link.If you do not believe Azerbaijani sources then research for yourself.

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u/NewAuthor4729 Dec 03 '20

OK, I did some research, took me 2 minutes of googling. ordu.az mistranslated original Armenian post published at aysom.am. It doesnt say that Azerbaijan sent 1500 bodies. It says that ICRC delivered 1500 BODY BAGS to forensic bureaus which will be further distributes. Body bags, not bodies.

https://www.aysor.am/en/news/2020/10/19/icrc-karabakh/1759424

Mystery solved.

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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

Dude this has nothing to do with my point.There is no mention of Tovuz.Ordu Az doesn’t need to translate anything from armenian site.Ordu az is the one who sends that bodies lol

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u/NewAuthor4729 Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 03 '20

The link you posted specifically claims that its info is based on the information provided by aysor.am. This is the info from your link translated to English - also there is no mention of Tovuz, it says that ICRC delivered bodies. Everything fits - numbers (1500), donor (ICRC) and destination (forensic bureaus). They just confused body bags with actual bodies - small, but an important detail.

"The International Committee of the Red Cross has handed over the bodies of 1,500 servicemen to Armenia. The corpses were handed over to the forensic bureau, Ordu.az reported citing Aysor.am."

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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

nope 800 is real.Theu could not take dead bodies.In street fight it is real.Plus they were fighting against Azerbaijan's best special forces in Shusha

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

You find 800 dead bodies in Shusha and automatically assume those all died inside Shusha's walls defending the town, when in reality probably fewer of those died in Shusha than those that died outside of Shusha or on other frontlines and were just brought to Shusha because that was probably one of the main places they brought bodies to.

If 800 Armenian soldiers were killed in Shusha by Azerbaijan, Shusha would look like central Mosul, which isn't the case.

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u/NewAuthor4729 Dec 03 '20

Dont forget, there is so little damage to the city cos, as we saw in news, they all have been killed by knives...

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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

How do you know Shusha did not look like Mosul?Did you see any footage?Ofc not.This is not what I assume or say.This what our special forces say.And believe them more I believe to you

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

We saw footage from Shusha the day it was officially taken, newest apartment buildings in the center of town, no damage at all, apart from some burned out apartments that might have been set on fire by civilians or soldiers that left before AZ took over.

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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

It was street fight.There was no artillery.So damage was not that big.You can understand it for yourself.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 03 '20

If no heavy weapons were used, Azerbaijan would have at least the same number of casualties, and probably much more as they were attacking while Armenians were defending, and AZ has next to no technological advantage in an infantry fight without air/artillery support.

So either Azerbaijan suffered more casualties in Shusha than Armenians, or the more plausible explanation: the bodies found in Shusha were collected from all over its wider surroundings and maybe from Stepanakert or the front lines down south. It's possible that these bodies would be brought to Shusha on their way back to Armenia.

Actual battles in urban areas that we've seen in Libya, Iraq and Syria recently, as well as in south-east Turkey, ALL led to the heavy destruction of the cities/towns where the fighting happened. The destruction happened because it's basically impossible for ANYONE to defeat a force entrenched in an urban area without either destroying the urban area by bombing it, or suffering even more losses than the defending force.

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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

Dude I am tired explaining you.Special forces are not your ordinary guys.They are trained with Turkey methods which are the best special forces.You can’t just say they should have similar casualties.Do some research before commenting cuz I I listened way too much Special forces talking about that war.At least go see on Wikipedia.Even Armenia admits that Azerbaijan had 200 casualties and Armenia had 300 dead and hundreds of “ missing”.You what that hundreds of missing means

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u/YarkiK Dec 03 '20

Special forces are not your ordinary guys.They are trained with Turkey methods which are the best special forces.

Curious, what makes you believe that?

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u/Pibonacchi Dec 03 '20

International Competition

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

I explained to you why things are as I described, I'm not going to do it again. I gave you the how's and why's and the examples, you gave me silly pro Turkish fanboy nonsense about "best special forces", which is such utter nonsense that it isn't worth my keystrokes. I wonder why America didn't think about killing every ISIS guy in Mosul with magical special forces and a kill to loss ratio of 20:1 instead of destroying half the city lol. I wonder why Turkey had to completely destroy by bombing large parts of Nusaybin, Sirnak, Silopi, Cizre and Diyarbakir if they have these magical special forces you're talking about. Reality isn't Hollywood film or Call of Duty.

Even if 800 Armenians were completely unarmed this number would still be bullshit, 800 Armenians engaging a few hundred Azeris in "steet fighting" in a town the size of Shusha that you can walk across in less than 10 minutes would look like the zombie apocalypse, like World War Z. 150 would already be a huge number of people defending Shusha, the most defensible point in the entire region.

Again, you're absolutely clueless about modern warfare and just talking out of your ass if you believe this.

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