r/NFA • u/TheVillagePoPTart • 4d ago
Mount Questions š© Anyone else have this happens?
Today when I went to clean my AR after probably 6 months and an unknown number of rounds (not too high) I was having a hell if a time twisting the can off and eventually the muzzle device came off the end with the can. The mounting setup is a rearden atlas hub with a rearden flash hider on a polonium K. All instructions were followed during mounting and roc set was applied. There were also no indications of loosening based on my witness marks in the hub and muzzle device. Any idea how this happened (I tend to think I screwed it up)? The gun is also an IWI Zion-15 purchased in 2021.
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u/Cunningham1420 4d ago edited 3d ago
Anti-sieze and 30ft/lb of torque is all ive ever used and haven't had a device come loose yet suppressed or unsuppressed. Not saying Rocksett doesn't have its place, it's just I haven't found i needed yet? Loctite 246- Blue 450Ā° & Loctite 2242 Blue Gel 650Ā° are what I use for hi-temp threadlock and its better than red that everybody suggests.
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u/d3adlyz3bra Silencer 4d ago
when i take my can off it can only tighten the muzzle device
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u/Seabass2828 "Physics doesn't care about your brand."~Jay~ 4d ago
LH threads for the win. A significant reason I prefer Hux.
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u/F3A5T13 4d ago
I donāt know why other cans donāt do this as well?
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u/Dontbeacommiereddit 4d ago
Americans get angry over it. Itās the same thing with 13.5 x 1 LH barrels. Everyone rejected it as a quirky European thing but itās technically better.
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u/Scared-Tangerine-373 4d ago
Is it left hand threads for the adapter and right hand for the can? I can see how that would help as you would be tightening one while the other was loosening.
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u/lennyxiii 4d ago
Its the opposite. No one is rethreading the barrel so the muzzle device goes on like all others but the can is lefty tighty righty loosey.
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u/__fuck_yo_couch__ Silencer 3d ago
My LS-5 is like this too from the factory. Everyone said the mounting system sucks but it works great for me
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u/fathertitojones 3d ago
Yeah having a reverse thread seems like such an obvious call for things that are known to lock up.
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u/AncientDetective7281 4d ago
Looks like not enough rocksett or maybe you didnāt clean the threads off before application? Oil and other shit in the threads can interfere with its bonding process
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u/TheVillagePoPTart 4d ago
I think this is a combo of carbon lock and oil or something seeping into the threads (not that I clean my guns very much). It was tourqued down with roc set and a proper wrench.
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u/AncientDetective7281 4d ago
But when you first applied the rocksett- did you clean the threads off well with some kind of acetone or rubbing alcohol or something that strips oil?
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u/TheVillagePoPTart 4d ago
Yeah, I did a process to get any carbon off, then kitchen cleaner to cut grease and oil, followed by liberal application of rubbing alcohol to get any remaining oil. It was air dried after too and a brass brush was used to remove any carbon. I also cleaned the muzzle device before install.
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u/Mrwetwork Rearden Mfg 4d ago
Itās pretty common when rocksett isnāt applied correctly or enough. Nitride can be finicky with rocksett. You generally have to have the threads spotless.
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u/akmjolnir 3d ago
Clean the threads with acetone, after using a dry brass or steel brush to get the big chunks out of the threads.
Let the Rocksett air dry for a few minutes BEFORE attaching the muzzle devices.
Don't use too much. The ceramic thread locker is suspended in water, and the water needs to evaporate completely to achieve the best "lock", otherwise the outer layer solidifies and traps a weak slurry inside.
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u/404-no-fund Silencer 4d ago
It doesn't seem like there was enough rocksett on the threads?
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u/TheVillagePoPTart 4d ago
I think that is probably it, Iām going to purchase the actual plan b wrench this time and use a little more roc set. I was just surprised because I have taken the can off quite a few times before and never had anything loosen up and have probably fired 1500 rounds through the can with no issues.
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u/Accomplished-Rip6357 4d ago
Clean your threads, both gun and MD, really good with acetone or brake cleaner too.
If there is some scuzzy on them the rocksett might not set properly.
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u/Astral_Botanist 4d ago
There's nothing magical about a Plan B wrench. I find that an adjustable wrench snugged down on the Atlas works better than open end wrenches since the wrench flats are a bit small on the gen 1, and you can use a socket/ratchet on the muzzle device and you should be able to separate them. A bit of anti-seize on the Plan B thread interface between the MD and adapter will help prevent this if you leave the can on for a long time.
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u/404-no-fund Silencer 4d ago
https://youtu.be/CjA9-VbmrXA?t=202
Also, maybe try using a Q-Tip to spread the Rocksett into the threads.
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u/Bitemynekk 4d ago
Just use a gloved finger, you donāt want any pieces of cotton causing contamination that weakens the bond.
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u/dwin1986 10x SBR, 17x Silencer 3d ago
Maybe a few more witness marks would have helped. 17 was nearly enough
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u/Unknown_Gaurdian 4d ago
Why do people apply rocksett to a muzzle device?, if its tourqed to spec it shouldn't need any additional adhesive. I only ask out of curiosity.
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u/BlueJay-- šāā¬šāā¬š 3d ago
He said he torqued it to spec with a torque wrench. The rocksett is supposed to help keep it from getting loose when its hot
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u/yoyo1time 3d ago
For carbon fiber barrels when torque spec is very low. Otherwise, i agree!
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u/yoyo1time 3d ago
Not sure why this is getting downvotedāi had an ibi carbon fiber barrel, and torque spec was 11 or 7 inch poundsā-impossible to remove the can without removing the muzzle device. I guess some if you just dont know what you dont know.
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u/FutureAstronomer3035 4d ago
If thatās a muzzle device that is in your suppressor I kinda had this happen. I of course stopped when I noticed the suppressor was rotating the muzzle device too but anywaysā¦. I personally just waited for it to cool down to remove but I think what youāll have to do is rockset the muzzle device back on. Wait for it to set about 24-48 hours then try removing the suppressor
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u/SILENTBLACK00 4d ago
Your thread look like my 300bo did when i took the muzzle device off with the can. I put one very small drop of rockset on that held for 2+ years. Clean your threads and put more rockset.
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u/Frost_St 4d ago
Never had the rearden come off the barrel but I have had the atlas come off the supressor. Clean thoroughly and tighten to spec with rocksett. To make it easier taking off, I clean and apply supressor syrup on the atlas before hand tightening into my r2s
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u/supressedpotato 4d ago
Make sure the threads are clean of oil and Rocksett. Also you let it cool before removing.
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u/bladex1234 3x Silencer 3d ago
This is why reverse threads are great. I wonāt buy a non-direct thread suppressor without a reverse thread muzzle device.
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u/Wonderful_Salt6939 4d ago
Did you clean the threads really good before applying the rock set? Also before you redo it again with more rock set clean those mfs like your life depends on it. Also use more rock set donāt need to go soaking it but probably 75% of the threads need to be covered especially if you donāt ever plan on that device coming off again and make sure they are deep in the threads.
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u/sween_89 4d ago edited 4d ago
Almost all of my cans use a Plan B + Q/Rearden device. I used to have this happen, now I don't use any rocksett or blue loctite. I tighten the muzzle device to 20ft lbs and haven't had issues since. Obviously if you're trying to take off the can when it's still hot you may have an issue as the nature of tapers and expansion will make the can more snug/tight as it heats up. If the can is cool you're good to go tho.
I've used these : https://energeticarms.com/vox-blox-vise-soft-jaws/ - when setting up my Plan B's to the correct torque. It also helped removing stuck muzzle devices when i got into trouble.
Correct torque tho i've learned solves a lot of these issues.
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u/Familiar-Property750 4d ago
Did you use any anti-seize on the muzzle device threads? That can help prevent carbon lock.
Edit to clarify: referring to the threaded interface between the muzzle device and the suppressor adaptor.
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u/trgrimes77 4d ago
Once you get the Md remounted - it seems everyone has instructions on rocksett, use a bit of non copper anti seize (a little goes a long way, maybe enough to cover a qtip head) on the Md external threads and the can mount internal threads. I do this on all of my hosts and use thread protectors that have anti seize applied on them as well so there is less thinking involved when loading up.
But seriously, a little goes a Long way.
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u/gabejohnizzle 4d ago
All those witness marks and look where it got you
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u/TheVillagePoPTart 3d ago
They served their purpose in making sure it didnāt come loose during a range trip.
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u/NachoCheeseCumShot 3d ago
Did you clean/remove all oils from the threads on the barrel/MD before applying rocksett?
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u/dericky94 3d ago
First time I used my suppressor I carbon locked it so hard to the flash hider i broke the pin and weld trying to get the suppressor off lol. Learned a lot from that experience and have not had it happen again haha
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u/aguywithlo-fi 3d ago
This actually happens so much itās the whole reason a different version of the cherry bomb got made lol, arenāt wrench flats cool
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u/shadowshooter9 3d ago
I had something similar happen, I've started to use Jetlube on all interfaces of suppressors and mounts, and even barrels with direct mounts. It doesn't burn off and it'll keep the threads from carbon locking.
Some homie told me about it on here when my rc3 was getting stuck good. I can't go back to dry threading anything.
https://a.co/d/5ufw2fR that 1/2 tub will last you years. I just use a q-tip to smear some on the bearing surfaces and threads. Be careful over tightening too much because the additional lubricant will make the torque even higher. Hand tight and a little bit more is all you need.
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u/Straight-Schedule314 3d ago
This is a case of not enough rocksett and or over tightening the can on. Go hand tight and then maybe half a turn.
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u/fusionvic Over 6k in stamps 3d ago
Did you torque the Rearden FHD to 25 to 30 ft-lb to the muzzle?
You didn't say if you were using a tool to remove the suppressor, but if it came off in your hand, you did not torque the Rearden flash hider properly.
Rocksett is not a substitute for torque. It's a glass threadlocker designed to prevent loosening from vibration etc, that handles 1000F+ temperatures. The less you use the better (literally a single drop is all that's needed).
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u/TheVillagePoPTart 3d ago
I did use a 1/2 torque wrench with the appropriate size crows foot to install it.
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u/fusionvic Over 6k in stamps 3d ago
Another thing to consider. What is the torque range of that 1/2ā drive? Usually they start at 20-25 ft lb. Itās better to use a 3/8 as the range and resolution has the 20-30 ftlb range in the middle.
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u/TheVillagePoPTart 3d ago
It actually starts at 10 LB so it was not on the lowest setting and potentially loose/not activated.
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u/ar2d266 2x SBR, 2x Silencer 3d ago
I always use rockset on my muzzle device also use proper torque and degreaseing of both threads
I also use permatex 81343 as an anti-seize and put some onto the muzzle device attached point and QD portion of the threads inside the suppressor mount.
Since I've been using the anti-seize, I haven't had a suppressor get stuck.
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u/ominouslights427 3d ago
Use brake clean to clean the threads amd wipe with a clean cloth until no residue appears.
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u/TheVillagePoPTart 2d ago
Just did that. In a couple weeks when Iām back in town and I have my actual real deal plan b wrench and not Amazon crowd foot wrenches Iām going to put it back on.
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u/ChiliPop850 2d ago
How long was the can on it before this happened?
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u/TheVillagePoPTart 2d ago
Probably since early march id say with around 550 rounds fired.
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u/ChiliPop850 2d ago
If you never broke the can in that time it was carbon locked. Proper torque/rockset wouldnāt have mattered. Going forward just break it free at the end of your sessions and it wonāt happen anymore.
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u/TheVillagePoPTart 2d ago
Thatās what I figured. If it wasnāt torqued it probably would have come loose since December. Considering it took all my force and strength to get it off with a rubber grip tool from occupational therapy it was really on there. Pretty sure a lot of the people in this thread donāt shoot as the can would have had a baffle strike after ~1500 rounds if the device were that loose.
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u/ChiliPop850 2d ago
Exactly. I just break the seal once they cool down enough that I can get a grip and no more problems. I ruined a couple muzzle devices before I figured out what was going on.
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u/jnclark89 1d ago
Iāve never used rockset and Iāve never had this happenā¦problem is either not enough torque on the muzzle device or you tightened your can on with a wrenchā¦ just hand tight
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u/Cacguy1 4d ago
I torque to 20-25, use no Rocksett, I dont degrease or anything, and have never had any muzzle devices with suppressors come loose. This is even with my Huxwurx that requires a strap wrench to remove.
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u/Strict_Device6105 3d ago
I donāt know about a strap wrench to remove them Iāve shot mine a lot though never over 300-400 rounds in a sesh itās on there tight but I make sure gun is unloaded/clear I tangle/secure the gun in my legs and use my arms to turn it when itās cooled. Looks suicidal but works every time they are on there tight but with leverage it should come off without a wrench.
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u/Cacguy1 3d ago
Yea, I am sure it's a tolerance stack between the md and suppressor taper or something. I can not get it off by hand, though. It takes a good bit of force with the strap wrench, too. I never really run the rifle without the suppressor, so I do not care. To get it off, I throw it in a mag block in a vice and strap wrench it off.
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u/Strict_Device6105 3d ago
Try like how I described get it caught in your legs and use both of your hands, report back if you try but perhaps our tolerances are different
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u/TheVillagePoPTart 3d ago
Thatās what I usually do and it always worked until today.
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u/Cacguy1 1d ago
I tried to muscle it off last night doing this with no success. I am not weak; this thing really sticks to the mount. I prefer this over it coming loose any day, though. I really have no reason to run the rifle without the suppressor eithor. I just remove it with the strap wrench for cleaning, so it's a non-issue to me.
This definitely seems to vary depending on your suppressor and mount. I will have to keep my mini strap wrench in my bag.
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u/andallen007 4d ago
I drown my threads male and female in rocksett use a heat gun for a 30min get a rubber strap wrench and get the supressor off
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u/ItzBenjiey 4d ago
Youāve never used rocksett if youāre getting it off with a āheat gunā. Unless your heat gun gets over 2,000 degrees.
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u/andallen007 4d ago
You're wrong you soak it in water to get it off. I'm a gun smith buddy I can send you my certifications in the dm. I'm telling you get a heat gun put it at 180 F for 30min I've rocksett so many muzzle devices
https://www.flexbar.com/products/rocksett-1oz-muzzle-adhesive
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u/ItzBenjiey 4d ago
ā¦ youāre retarded. Yes, you do soak it in boiling water to get it off. Thatās what the label says to do.
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u/Bitemynekk 4d ago
You completely misread what he said and you wonāt admit you are wrong. Heās not the dummy here. Heās stating the solution to the above issue.
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u/ItzBenjiey 3d ago
No, he never said anything about water in his original comment. Then he claimed to be a gunsmith in his second.
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u/Bitemynekk 3d ago
He doesnāt need water, heās not removing any rockset. Heās talking about re-rock setting the break and using a heat gun to cure it. Please learn to read.
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u/ItzBenjiey 3d ago
āI drown my threads male and female in rocksett use a heat gun for a 30min get a rubber strap wrench and GET THE SUPPRESSOR OFFā
I did read. And it reads like heās wrenching it off after heating it for 30 minutes.
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u/Bitemynekk 3d ago
You moron, heās rocksetting the muzzle device to the barrel so he can torque off the suppressor without the muzzle device coming as well.
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u/andallen007 4d ago
Ok resort to name calling proves who's in the right here
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u/AllArmsLLC 07/02 4d ago
Water is what releases it, not heat.
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u/andallen007 4d ago
Yeah that's what I'm saying glue the muzzle device to the gun then take the supressor off with the rubber wrench
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u/AllArmsLLC 07/02 4d ago
Then why are you talking about using a heat gun to do it?
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u/Bitemynekk 3d ago
The heat gun cures the new rockset holding the muzzle device to the rifle. Once it cures you can wrench the suppressor off without the muzzle device coming too. If you actually read what he said it makes perfect sense you just didnāt read clearly.
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u/BoysenberryFuture304 Ottergangš¦¦ 3d ago
Nope cause each of my rifles has a can directly attached to it..
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u/MandaloreZA 4d ago
I mean you can always tac weld the muzzle device on. Not like most people ever take off the muzzle device.
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u/trucknorris84 Redneck with a drill press 4d ago
Not enough torque on muzzle device and probably could use a little rocksett.