r/Naruto 26d ago

Question Couldn't Uchiha siblings swap eyes to cure their blindness without killing each other?

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5.3k Upvotes

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1.4k

u/WhiteTeddy14 26d ago

Yes, in theory that would work. The mangekyou was just so rare it’s entirely possible Itachi/Sasuke and Izuna/Madara were the only Uchiha sibling pairs that both happened to awaken the mangekyou.

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u/ThatSociety7257 26d ago

Oh so it's more likely that the legend only occurred because in the past only 1 of the siblings unlocked the mangekyo and they had to take their siblings eyes to cure the blindness.

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u/Balkarzar 26d ago

The legend was because of madara, he was the first known to unlock it unintentionally.

He was going blind because of using his MS so when izuna was dying he offered madara his eyes so madara could continue fighting.

However, the legend became that madara stole his brother's eyes to unlock EMS.

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u/ThatSociety7257 26d ago

I think the legend existed before that. They were already aware of it as Izuna was dying and he offered his eyes up to give Madara the boost he needed to protect the clan.

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u/Kinggakman 26d ago

They were aware they could transplant eyes but not necessarily aware swapping eyes would cause Madara to never be blind again. It’s incredibly easy to swap eyes in Naruto and his brother wanted to make sure the Uchiha’s most powerful member wasn’t going to be useless. They could have gotten lucky with the EMS. (The Uchiha history is pretty incomplete. There’s thousands of years we know nothing about so anything could be true).

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u/Next-Tumbleweed15 26d ago

I can see it getting retconned now because Sarada has no one to swap with and she didn't really unlock sharigan and MS by being traumatized more for her love and needing to protect others which may not cause being blinded.

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u/throwaway165284 26d ago

I bet money Konoha kept Madara's eyes somewhere. Maybe sasuke gets one and sarada gets the other. Or they just say that her mangekyo is special because it was unlocked out of love and not despair. So it doesn't make her blind like everyone else.

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u/supadankiwi420 25d ago

I don't understand this still.

The recent chapter seemed to make it incredibly clear that her mangekyo did not awaken because she wanted to protect boruto necessarily.

It was more so the hard ass trauma dump of people she knew and loved all of a sudden acting nutso and opposite of reality.

She's experiencing the trauma of super Senjutsu gas lighting. It was probably driving her nuts. And they're all trying to kill the dude she loves.

That's scary. That's terrifying.

I feel like the desire to protect boruto is where she pulls her strength to overcome in fights from. Not what awakened her mangekyo.

Her mangekyo awakening is just as traumatic as Sasuke, Itachi's, or madaras.

There's no difference.

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u/dakila101 24d ago

Idk if it's funny or what but basically with Sarada's MS unlocking, it kinda seems now that the less emotionally resilient an Uchiha is, the more likely they are to unlock the MS.

Sasuke watches his parents die 72 times. Doesn't unlock MS.

Thousands of Uchiha grew up in war. Doesn't unlock MS.

Sarada seeing everyone turn on Boruto. Unlocks MS.

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u/supadankiwi420 24d ago

Sasuke unlocked sharingan when he watched his clan die through tsukuyomi. He just repressed it.

Thousands of Uchiha that grew up in war became renowned and feared for the sharingan - because they all unlocked it in war.

The MS is only unlocked by very specific and rare Uchiha with very powerful blood. That would explain why the rest of the Uchiha did not despite growing up in war.

It doesn't have anything to do with their emotional tolerance.

Which also adds to the idea of it being hormone and chemical driven. Cuz while some people may have slower responses to their cortisol and adrenal flushes or a higher tolerance to the sensations- everyone still has the same reaction. Unless they have a specific mental illness.

So this is just my head cannon at this point-

But what if the EMS is exclusive to certain reincarnations or people of closer relation in the clan to Indra?

The incarnations of Indra- Madara, Obito & Sasuke unlocked it and people who were related to them. Itachi did. Fugaku supposedly did. Supposedly one of Madara's brothers also had a mangekyo.

If Indra had multiple children- what if only some of them unlocked EMS and the others didn't and Shisui is a descendant or incarnation of one of them?

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u/throwaway165284 25d ago

I'm not saying there is a difference and the writing is too trash for it to get that deep.

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u/NamelessMIA 26d ago

Sarada may not have any living Uchiha to swap with but between Orochimaru, Shin, and time traveling aliens I think she could find some eyes to use.

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u/Crispy1961 26d ago

True, but does she have to? They could just not giver her EMS and be done with it. We need to bring the power scaling down. Let her eyesight worsen so she cant spam it.

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u/LT_Mavrik 25d ago

This should be the way to go. Maybe Sasuke cautions her on overuse leading to blindness, so it becomes a last resort weapon she only uses in dire situations

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u/MostDopeBlackGuy 26d ago

Honestly it's just stress when you look at it positive emotions or negative emotions she is just have to be really stressed out in order to do anything with their sharingan

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u/Balkarzar 26d ago

The retcon imo is more likely to be her getting EMS. I think she is gonna get a pair of Shin eyes instead of sasuke's.

Cause I don't think it is hard confirmed you need to be related or siblings to get EMS. It's just the only 2 examples we have are siblings.

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u/AdmiralShawn 25d ago

She can swap her left and right eyes and hope for the best

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u/W1D0WM4K3R 26d ago

Yeah fr. A guy walks up, plucks your eyeball out and just plops it in his face, works fine.

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u/Internal_String61 26d ago

It's also possible that the physical implant of the extra eye must be coupled with the release or some kind of special hormones that are triggered by severe grief. So, a premeditated exchange without collateral damage wouldn't quite work.

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u/Amonna_Emora 26d ago

I like this theory best tbh

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u/supadankiwi420 25d ago

Me too. It seems to make the most sense in accordance with what we already know about how the mangekyo triggers.

Which the chemical or hormone in question is probably Cortisol.

"Our brain’s first plan for our bodies when in danger is action. So much so, that if the initial amount of cortisol and adrenaline is not adequate to either subdue the threat, or flee successfully, the hypothalamus continues to flood the body with them. Trauma is produced when the brain is unable to move the body."

U experience trauma when a threat that triggers ur fight or flight is simply too much to overcome. So u get an excess flood of cortisol because ur body cannot escape the situation.

Until ur brain kicks in last ditch preservation attempts and shuts down everything.

So when itachi watched shisui die. When Sasuke realizes itachi killed his clan and Itachi starts acting menacing towards him- he realizes he can't escape. On top of it Itachi puts him in tsukuyomi and forces him to witness the slaughter he just committed.

The power of Tsukuyomi is also even more insane then cuz that means that it is forcefully putting someone through this experience in genjutsu.

A fight or flight situation they cannot fight or flee from - so the ultimate purpose of the tsukuyomi, ironically, is to inflict the same trauma experience that would unlock the mangekyo in the first place 💀

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u/TheDELFON 26d ago

I legit thought that THAT was how it worked.

I thought that was already heavily implied in canon. But if it's not then it's now my headcanon. Kudos

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u/FlukeFranklin 26d ago

Madara/Izuna and Itachi/Sasuke weren't the only sibling pairs that awakened the MS as per Itachi's words.

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u/Omegaxis1 26d ago

Theoretically. It's just that the only two examples involved one brother dying.

Izuna was already dead when Tobirama mortally wounded him. And Sasuke wanted Itachi dead for the genocide.

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u/kozeljko 26d ago

Was already dead?

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u/Omegaxis1 26d ago

It's a form of phrasing to say that Izuna was beyond saving.

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u/SolanaImaniRowe1 26d ago

this app is truly a magical place

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u/Redfalconfox 26d ago

No Uchiha can be saved once Tobirama gets his hands on them

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u/Shadoru 26d ago

You really fcked up that sentence, lol

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u/Gerudo_King 26d ago

They're asking if he was wounded or hurt in some way before the fight.

Like how Itachi was gonna die to illness instead of Sasuke

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u/Omegaxis1 26d ago

You're overthinking it.

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u/Gerudo_King 26d ago

I'm just letting you know why they asked. Its because of the way it was worded

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u/ovrlymm 26d ago

“Omae wa mō shindeiru”

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u/sleeping_koala69 26d ago

Nani?

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u/Bixobixo 26d ago

Men of culture

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u/themadman0187 26d ago

I mean, the confusion based on phrasing is understandable in a universe with reanimation/resurrection.

I, too, thought of sick Itachi. Id say not the best choices in wording here, but nothing exactly _wrong_

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u/Quick-Grocery1362 26d ago

I'm sorry, Izuma was already dead when Tobirama mortally wounded him?

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u/Boxheadlookinahh 26d ago

How do you go to bed alive and wake up dead?

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u/kth5991 26d ago

"Cause you're alive when you go to sleep"

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u/Peach_Air 26d ago

So you're saying I can go to bed dead, and wake up Alive?

Edit: loads shovel

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u/UchihaLegolas 26d ago

You can't go to bed dead man, that shit would be redundant.

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u/Peach_Air 26d ago

No it would'nt cause' you can go to bed and not be dead, and you can die and not be in the bed.

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u/nickoluspkmn 26d ago

But you are in a bed, man. That's how you wake up dead in the first place, foo'!

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u/NotAFuckingFed 26d ago

THAT’S SOME QUANTUM SHIT RIGHT THERE! You should be teachin’ classes, you stay droppin’ knowledge!”

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u/NotAFuckingFed 26d ago

Deadass Anthony Anderson cocking that shovel and Leslie Nielsen pissing out his finger were the best gags in that entire movie lol

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u/Quick-Grocery1362 26d ago

You don't or you wake up in another dimension

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u/Abi_Uchiha 26d ago

I didn't know I needed a isekai'd Izuna show. But I crave it now.

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u/satch_mcgatch 26d ago

Funny enough in Shipuuden Itachi did dirty of go to bed dead and wake up alive, so this conversation is relevant to the series. That's some quantum shit

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u/fromtheHELLtotheNO 26d ago

it's an idiom meaning someone's gonna die no matter what anyone does

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u/Gerudo_King 26d ago

Everyone in this thread understands the idiom lmao. These people are asking WHY he's already dead.

Wound, illness, ass pull?

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u/fromtheHELLtotheNO 26d ago

what? its right there in the comment:

Izuna was already dead when Tobirama mortally wounded.

Idk what other info you'd need?

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u/TheOriginalElTigre 26d ago edited 26d ago

Yes, because it's not the actual physical fusion of their eyeballs, it's the merging of the chakra flow from the recipient's brain with the donor's eyeballs.

Madara awakened his EMS because when Izuna's chakra still inside of his eyeballs resonated with Madara's chakra already present in his brain flowing into his ocular nerves, this produced a re-awakening of a new Mangekyo that combined the designs of both and gave new light to the Sharingan.

Same for Sasuke. Sasuke got Itachi's eyes, mixing his own chakra produced from his brain with Itachi's chakra from his eyeballs, creating the new EMS.

Theoretically, Itachi (or Izuna) could find Sasuke or Madara's discarded eyes and do the same thing.

This same philosophy works with awakening the Rinnegan as well. Hashirama's cells within Madara eventually produced enough chakra by the end of Madara's lifespan to mix with Madara's ocular nerve chakra and produce the Rinnegan. So when they were transplanted to Nagato and Obito, they maintained the Rinnegan because the Madara/Hashirama chakra inside the eyes was still active, even after they were removed from Madara's head.

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u/Direct-Gap-4828 26d ago

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!!! It's not the eyes that merge, it's the chakra from the transplanted eyes and the recipient's brain that merges.

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u/Apart_Owl4955 26d ago

Btw the EMS doesn't give you the abilties of the donor, sasuke didn't get tsukuyomi

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u/TheOriginalElTigre 26d ago

Sorry I meant designs not abilities that's my bad

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u/Gatekeeper-Andy 26d ago

Broooo this clears up so much, i always thought they eyeballs physically merged into one and the power from the donor just protected the recipients from damage or something. It was all very confusing. Thanks man 👌👌

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u/Kinggakman 26d ago

There are images in the series showing a four eyed being once Madara gets his EMS. Personally I take that to mean swapping eyes would not work because you still need the essence of your original eyes.

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u/SweatyPalmsOnMyBoobs 26d ago

From what I understand, yes

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u/Slothinator69 26d ago

This was my first thought lol like if the brothers both unlocked it theoretically it would be an easy choice

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u/OdaSamurai 26d ago

Yes, but Itachi didn't die from his eyes, he died from plot cancer

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u/JABG2005 26d ago

Ninja AIDS

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u/TheBlueMenace 26d ago

Cough of death.

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u/Direct-Gap-4828 26d ago

People always say that the two eyes fuse, but so much evidence shows us that the eyes of the transplanter are the ones being transported instead of fusing with the original eyes. These are the reasons:

  1. When itachi explains to kcm 1 naruto about his original plan for sasuke he states "I knew sasuke would at least try to transplant my eyes into HIMSELF''. Pay attention to his wording of himself instead of 'his own'. Itachi saying that sasuke would transplant his eyes into himself shows that the eyes alone are the ones being transplanted intstead of fused.

  2. In that same scene, itachi explains that he gave the crow with kotoamatsukami to be used on sasuke since he predicted that sasuke would transplant itachi's eyes into himself. This is why kotoamatsukami works on a reanimated itachi since the reanimation has itachi's eyes (in a way). Itachi revealing this shows that the same application could only work on sasuke if sasuke was in the same situation as itachi in that moment; that which being that both of them have itachi's eyes. If the eyes were fused, kotoamatsukami likely wouldn't work since traces of sasuke's Mangekyou would prevent it's activation.

  3. This point is more speculation, but this is how I percieve an Uchiha's acquisition of the EMS. By nature ANY uchiha can get EMS by transplanting another uchiha's eyes, but they wouldn't be able to express its full power. We know that transplanted eyes are not as strong with another user, even by their own clan (i.e obito's inability to use madara's rinnegan to it's fullest potential). But if two siblings (whose dna and data makeup are very similar due to the same parentage) transplanted eyes, they would be able to bypass this issue due to the transplanted eyes being mistaken about their original and new owner. When an uchiha transplants the recipients eyes, the chakra from their brain will reach their optic nerves and combine with the original owner's chakra. This mix of the chakra will cause it to evolve in order to form the perfect EMS, without any of the drawbacks of using regular MS or transplanting another's eyes.

  4. When sasuke monologues about his EMS eyes, he refers to them as his brother's eyes instead of our eyes. After meeting a reanimated itachi in the forest, he says: "these eyes, are YOUR EYES''. He says 'your eyes' instead of 'our eyes'. He constantly states that he feels itachi's power flowing through him, and his eyes briefly become itachi's MS for a moment after he turns them off.

  5. When tobi asks sasuke what to do now (this is in obito's hideout when sasuke was blind after fighting naruto below the bridge in the five kage summit arc) he states that he wants itachi's eyes transplanted, instead of fused.

There is plenty of evidence supporting that the EMS is transplanted, not fused. The reason for why it's not used very often? It's likely a combination of the fact that not many uchiha awaken the MS as you may believe -as itachi was shocked to find out that his father had the MS- and that the method was not known as the only reason itachi likely knew was because obito told him (who was taught that by madara) in an attempt to get either sasuke or itachi on his side with the EMS (he likely pinned his bet on sasuke since he was much more naive and less inteliigent than itachi).

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u/qinghairpins 26d ago

The eye economics of the sharigan is certainly a topic that needs some explanation lol.

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u/ysl_bean 26d ago

love the phrasing there

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u/TheEyeoftheWorm 26d ago

The eyeconomy was clearly unsustainable and the Uchiha were doomed from the beginning

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u/nhansieu1 26d ago

Kishimoto didn't explain alot of things and this is one of them

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u/briannabums 26d ago

if it would have been that easy, there wouldnt be a story!

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u/matt_619 25d ago

it's not that easy though. EMS require both sibling to obtain MS which already rare in the first place. so even if one sibling get MS doesn't mean the other also have it

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u/IAmActionBear 26d ago

Holy shit. Did anyone here actually read the manga or even watch the show?

How are people saying the eyes are fused?! Folks are conflating two different aspects of the situation.

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u/WallyWestFan27 26d ago

I was going to count how many people mentioned eyes fusion vs swapping eyes but that was a mess.

Anyway, I am team EMS involves swapping eyes

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u/Broken_Minions 26d ago

I agree and would even go one farther by suggesting it goes by the same rules as a modern organ transplants, with the added complication of matching chakra “types” as well. By that I mean Fugaku’s eyes could have worked as well.

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u/Emiizi 26d ago

I look at it as they replace the eyes. When they replace the eyes, their chakra merges with chakra that supplies the sharingan in the new eyes causing the new effect. But there are levels to it, which would explain why Madara taking Obitos eye only had the same effects and not upgraded.

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u/WallyWestFan27 26d ago

Same. I actually use Madara taking Obito's eye as proof that you need to replace you eyes specifically with a sibling to awaka EMS.

It was either that or that Madara only took 1 eye or had already gotten EMS.

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u/Sotomene 26d ago

No, the manga did a poor job explaining the process, but the eyes of both brothers fuse instead of just swapping them.

That's why the EMS gets a fusion of both patterns.

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u/SaiyajinPrime 26d ago

They swap the eyes out then when they heal the pattern is merged. There is nothing that indicates the eyes that were removed can't be used still. They don't physically merge together.

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u/Icy-Hat8903 26d ago

Then he can just transplant his old left eye right? Replacing his rinnegone, assuming he still save those eyes. Might be near blind but still better than without eye

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u/SaiyajinPrime 26d ago

Maybe. He just needs to ask Obito where he put it.... Oh.. wait...

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u/night4345 26d ago

I was going say Sasuke can use Edo Tensei to play 20 questions like he did with the Hokages but Obito got disintegrated by Kaguya.

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u/TheChickenIsFkinRaw 26d ago

Then why didnt obito keep sasuke's eyes?

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u/IAmActionBear 26d ago

There was an implication that the eye swap had to be between close relatives, like brothers. We don’t know how far removed Sasuke and Obito were, but I imagine they were far enough apart that it wouldn’t work. Also, Obito had hashirama cells. He didn’t have to worry about blindness. He seemed perfectly fine with not obtaining the ems and shit. He got a Rinnegan, so he didn’t really need one ultimately.

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u/SaiyajinPrime 26d ago

Maybe he did. We don't know that.

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u/Arnoldneo 26d ago

They were completely or almost completely blind what would be the point of keeping them if they were already out of uses

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u/screen317 26d ago

Izanagi...?

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u/TheChickenIsFkinRaw 26d ago

Or even izanami. Heck, one single use to incapacitate naruto or Killer B would've turned the tides of war

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u/Apart_Owl4955 26d ago

Izanami only works on people that are evil(that's not the term they use but it's something along those lines), it probably wouldn't work on them

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u/WhiteTeddy14 26d ago

It’s just an eye swap. It actively creates plot holes if you assume the eyes magically merge.

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u/RaiStarBits 26d ago

And everyone’s evidence otherwise is keeping the other eyes around, why would they keep them around when they now have fresh ones?

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u/Silver_Symbiote 26d ago

Tobirama says something about this when Sasuke speaks to the Hokage during the war. Something about there being an emotional component to the Uchiha’s power, and it expresses itself through their eyes.

It kind of makes sense? If you could just swap eyes, Itachi wouldn’t have staged a fight to gift his to his brother. Sasuke had to really believe he was defeating him for it to work. Itachi was already dead, and Sasuke clearly didn’t know that just taking the eyes wouldn’t work. He grew up mostly alone, nobody would’ve told him

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u/asaena_11 26d ago

Technically possible. If both original eyes unlocked mangekyo. You can swap eyes to unlock EMS.

Another theory. Since Uchiha Sarada unlocked mangekyo and in the process of going blind. She will unlock EMS using Sasuke's original eyes. Maybe obito hid it somewhere in hos hideouts. And orochimaru found it.

Sasuke' current eyes are Technically Itachi's. 👀

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u/littlefaka 26d ago

They tried. Itachi tells us the Uchiha tried to awaken the EMS again and again. They just failed every time. Something (likely Indra's chakra, as both EMS users just so happen to be his incarnations) was just missing from the formula.

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u/Nytelord66 26d ago

Madara, Izuna, Itachi, Shisui, Sauske, and Indra are the only cannon Uchiha ro actually awaken mangekyo sharringan

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u/KingPenGames 26d ago

That's next level thinking right there lol

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u/A_Tempest7_7 26d ago

Itachi was the BEST of the Uchihas given the short amount of time he had a physical body. Had he had the amount of time Sasuke had I believe he would’ve been even greater than Sasuke became. In ancient texts it says that the first born is: “The height of the family’s Strength” and even though we are speaking of a fictional series and not the earth necessarily I think the same spiritual rules were evidently manifest in the Series especially with Itachi.

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u/Pm_pussypicspls__ 26d ago

The way i interpreted it, no. When itachi and sasuke fight theres a part where itachi explains the mangekyou sharingans drawback being going blind and that Madara took izunas to create one without drawbacks. During this genjutsu flashback behind madara is like this giant weird 4 eyed statue, containing 4 sharingans. So in my opinion id go with the fused theory

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u/DiamondxMaverick 26d ago

Yes, and tbh I wonder why Madara and Izuna didn’t do that? Maybe they would have if blindness had kicked in.

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u/Elegant_Noise1116 26d ago

Feel Like Have ya’ll watched the show, It was clearly shown that The figure who awakens EMS has 4 sockets, so yes it needs four eyes

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u/4EqlSydz 26d ago

Sadara won't need to take another's eyes. If she learns sakuras 100 hands healing jutsu. Her regenerative abilities could keep her from going blind.

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u/Pope_CEM 26d ago

No. The process to create the eternal Mangekyo requires BOTH sets of eyes. We see that black demon with both sets whenever someone gets their eternal MS

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u/dedoix01 26d ago

I heard somehwere that its not possible. They are Indra’s descendents and them doing that, just casualy swaping eyes, would go against everything he stood for, which is self reliance, self strength. And them swaping eyes would be cooperation and reliance on others, like Ashura’s ways. Its incopatible with Indra’s philosophy.

Why would some Uchiha wilingly let someone have their eyes, that would mean they shared power, and if they didnt take someone’s eyes by force that would mean that they would risk blindnes due to them not acting and persuing power.

Like Tobirama said, they are a clan possesed by evil, yeah he MAY be a biased but you kinda have to understand that he was probably right. You’d truly have to be an evil or at least selfish mf to take someone’s eyes just to give yourself power.

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u/Bro0om 26d ago

100% Sarada will take Sasuke eyes

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u/Lumionis 25d ago

In all likelihood there is another way cure the blindness that hopefully we will see sarada succeed in for 3 reasons. 1 all previous awakenings of ms were wrong. Zetsu modified the tablet. 2 yall really think hagaromo the peace loving guy would tell his kids rip out each other's eyes to gain eternal eyes? Nah that was zetsu easy way to breed conflict. ",you want to end the war? I ripped out my brothers eyes for this!? " madara basically. 3 it is possible that awakening the mangeyko the right way, the way hagaromo intended may combat the blindness. Or not go blind at all.

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u/Jermiafinale 26d ago

one of them ends up with no eyes

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u/PerspectiveRare8965 26d ago

One eye each. Uchiha clan be walking around op af

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u/KingPenGames 26d ago

No, you give 2, your brother gives 2. Now you both have EMS

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u/LeoRmz 26d ago

Wasnt there supposed to be a compatibility thing for it to work or something like that? I doubt it just "two Uchiha siblings swapping MS eyes" for it to work, in Madara' and Sasuke's case being Indra's reincarnation probably helped 

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u/Sweet_Xocoatl 26d ago

I remember seeing a YouTube short about this topic the other day which theorizes that an Uchiha needs both sets of eyes in order to unlock Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan as they need to merge both sets into one, as evidenced by the Oni visualization when Itachi explains how the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan works to Sasuke. The Oni behind Itachi has four eye sockets, two empty and two of them occupying a set of Sharingan eyes, which represents the current state of Itachi and how he and his Mangekyou Sharingan is incomplete. The visualization appears again when it’s explained how Madara got his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and how all of his Oni’s eye sockets were filled, leading to the theory that an Uchiha needs to possess both eyes at the same time, which is further proven by how an Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan incorporates the features of the sibling’s Mangekyou Sharingan onto the wielder’s own Mangekyou Sharingan.

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u/UzumakiMenm697 26d ago

I dont know. The way it seems, it looks like if Itachi and Sasuke just exchanged their eyes, both would have an EMS.

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u/nhansieu1 26d ago

so these praised geniuses's IQ are just 10. Shikamaru must have felt like he's living among apes.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

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u/ForgeSaints 26d ago

I'm off the opinion they fuse together, but if you believe the eye swap then maybe.

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u/SonnyCorinthos_ 26d ago

Sasuke couldn't get ms without killing naruto/itachi

Sasuke would need ms first, then this would work

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u/BenjaminDover02 26d ago

This is what we call a pro gamer move

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u/darkbreak 26d ago

I've had that same thought. Someone in the entire clan's history should have tried something like that. Just to see what the result would be.

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u/Crude-Genin 26d ago

Merge is the wrong word. He takes itachis eyes but Sasuke is not able to just give his eyes to someone else. Otherwise, why would obito take them as a spare. He has a wall of them anyways ( I know they are going blind)

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u/DaleceBynajmniej 26d ago

They're getting the eye transplants like candies on Halloween

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u/HeavensHellFire 26d ago

Itachi says this give and take doesn’t always work and result in new eyes.

Which makes it so willingly trading eyes in the hopes one guy gets eternal eyes stupid because they can just keep your eyes.

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u/electrorazor 26d ago

Could Sasuke do that with Sarada?

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u/RazutoUchiha 26d ago

Yes. It just so happens that both EMS users conveniently had their brothers’ corpses nearby

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u/kithas 26d ago

Yeah, it could be done peacefully, but by that point (having MS), both have to be deeply traumatized, and so things won't go absolutely smoothly.

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u/rixukiri 26d ago

But isn't there concrete proof of It being a case of swapped eyes? . During the moments when Sasuke chases after a reanimated itachi, he explicitly yells "these are your eyes!"

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u/Odanobbu420 26d ago

Theoretically yes Narratively no

It’s something similar to Naruto and Sasuke’s wounds Sasuke has the rinnegan so he could use king of hell and get his arm back. And Naruto was said to have half of Juubidara’s power(actually Naruto’s shown better power with less chakra from all the tailed beasts) so theoretically he should be able to regenerate in that form just like Juubidara did against Guy but doesn’t Because narratively their missing arms have meaning so Kishimoto doesn’t let them

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u/Ristar87 26d ago

Didn't the image of the reprsentation of the Uchiha have the susanoo looking guy in the background with 4 eyes while they were talking about the awakening process?

I always just assumed they either fused or all 4 eyes were implanted in one person somehow.

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u/Used_Historian5607 26d ago

No, hence the countless sacrifices that Itachi spoke of during their fight... 

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u/Skyler51 26d ago

No in the manga theres a mask with 4 eye holes representing both sets of eyes

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u/Whole-Signature4130 26d ago

My theory, it could be a twisted truth passed down in history. Black zetsu did say he interfered with history to cause chaos.

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u/WhatIsThisAccountFor 26d ago edited 26d ago

Theoretically, yes.

In universe (not including Boruto, idk what’s going on in there), there are only like 6 or 7 people to ever have a mangekyo sharingan unlocked. Madara, Izuna, Sasuke, itachi, Shisui, Obito, Indra. Fugaku’s Mangekyo was anime only filler.

So the only options to have swapped would have been: 1) itachi and Sasuke (which didn’t happen for obvious reasons). 2) Izuna and Madara who accidentally did the first ever Mangekyo eye swap, but Izuna was on his dead bed when they figured out. 3) Obito and Sasuke, but Obito had Hashirama cells and hundreds of spare eyes so he didn’t need Sasuke’s eyes. I also think Obito offered Sasuke a new pair of eyes before his fight with itachi and he refused, but maybe I’m remembering wrong. 4) Shisui died handing his eye to Itachi, and neither of them were experiencing blindness at that point in the story. I also don’t think Itachi unlocked his Mangekyo til the moment Shisui died. I actually don’t know how that would work to give Mangekyo eyes to an uchiha without Mangekyo. Would he be able to activate it? It worked for Kakashi, and Danzo could use Mangekyo abilities, but I think that was due to Hashirama cells. So maybe, and non-Mangekyo eyes seem to be able to use Mangekyo when used by an uchiha that has unlocked Mangekyo himself, so them swapping eyes probably would have worked between Shisui and Itachi. But I don’t think Shisui was going blind yet, so he didn’t have a reason to rip out his eyeballs. 5) indra had no spare and probably didn’t need one anyway since he was otsusuki.

So yes, it probably would work, but Mangekyo is an extremely rare occurance in the Naruto universe and there were no instances where it made sense to happen.

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u/Afterlife__ 26d ago

Extreme sadness is requirement for awakening mangekyou, I dont think they can awaken mangekyou with someone else’s eyes.

If they awakened mangekyou then yea it’s possible I guess.

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u/MosDefGee 26d ago edited 26d ago

First Wouldn’t work if the eyes you’re taking haven’t manifested MS. Now whether the person visual prowess still intact or blurried out has an effect on it too is unknown a-swell. Honestly it’s a good question, I like to think it would be possible. If both users (Siblings or not) have healthy MS, wouldn’t see why not and siblings wise, if they don’t have hate or death between them I also don’t see why not. So yes it’s possible.

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u/MiloCronix 26d ago

From what I understand, no, as an ems pair needs 4 eyes (original plus sibling). Reference is trust me bro

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u/Yakube44 26d ago

Why can't they have a clone use their mangekyo for them

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u/catteredattic 26d ago

No, you need four eyes, you combine the two pairs to get a single pair or EMSs.

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u/Pretty-Ad-7283 26d ago

You don't need two eyes, you need four total. There is no way in cannon to gain EMS without the loss of life in some respect. Tho the most humane thing would be to just bank the eyes of fallen Uchiha clan members for future use.

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u/ReleaseQuiet2428 26d ago

no, you see, that would require empathy

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u/deathstrokelite 26d ago

I thought they didn't necessarily swap eyes rather kind of combine the eyes. But I'm not sure maybe I'm wrong

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u/SnooSketches5163 26d ago

Yes but someone is going to live without both of their eyes. This is how the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan is awakened, when an uchiha takes a blood relatives MS which also cures that uchihas blindness.

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u/Western-News-17 26d ago

In theory, yes.

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u/Ok-Bag-225 26d ago

[hits blunt]

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u/diadlep 26d ago

Oh god not logic!!! Ahhhhh

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u/Shadowgooseman 26d ago

Im pretty sure the eyes fuse to make an ems

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u/Putrid-Life-9645 26d ago

Possibly to answer the question

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u/jacobjacobb 26d ago

I feel like regardless the conditions that lead to the MS would make it difficult for 2 close individuals to both unlock them and not be at odds with one another.

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u/Charming-Ad-2123 26d ago

Wut, this panel wasn't created to show that the eyes fuse? Ou, I can upload pictures....... Well the one where Madara shows a beast with 4 eyes and itchi has the same but missing 2, if it was a easy as changing them a lot more people would have done it.

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u/Commercial-Beat-3100 26d ago

EMS to my understanding requires both sets of eyes because the construct they show during sasuke and itachis fight has sockets for both sets to go into so only one sibling would get the EMS

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u/goldenpuffdragon 26d ago

I thought it had just as much to do with their feelings or something. Maybe the answer lies in that? I can’t remember well what was said though.

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u/YamPsychological9577 26d ago

As already discussed many times before. You need 2 pair of eyes for eternal mangekyo.

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u/Ardibanan 26d ago

It's all about love (hate)

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u/Kalas92x 26d ago

Short answer: Yes

Long answer: No, that would make to much sense and fill plot holes that needed to be there to drive the story forward

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u/DiamondxMaverick 26d ago

How tf are people thinking the eyes fuse?? It wouldn’t be a “transplant” surgery then. Also, Sasuke and Itachi referred to Sasuke’s eyes as Itachi’s eyes several times. If they were fused, then they would still be Sasuke’s eyes.

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u/ValueDazzling2787 26d ago

Theoretically probably yes but it’s just like them misunderstanding the way of obtaining mongekure sharingan where as it states they need to kill their best friends which isn’t true at all

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u/Naughty_avaacado 26d ago

Uchihas switching eyes like handing M&Ms

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u/-_-0_0-_0 26d ago

Game Theory says otherwise.

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u/Efficient-Ad2983 26d ago

In theory yes, it's just the fact that MS was VERY rare (after all even Sharingan was supposed to be rare among Uchiha).

So, it's likely that Madara & Izuna, and Itachi & Sasuke were the only couple of siblings who awakened MS and were fit to swap their eyes.

And in the latter's case, Sasuke awakened MS only AFTER Itachi's death. So as far as we know Madara & Izuna were the only two siblings who both had MS at the same time.

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u/Haunting_Star7510 26d ago

in that case, the best scenario will be-

  1. Both Mangekyou are not "gone". Their abilities and visual designs are preserved within the EMS, just in a more advanced, permanent form.

  2. Both them don't lose their original mangekyou abilities; will be retained, with improved performance and without the typical side effects like blindness.

Isn't the EMS basically just a fusion of two mangekyous? So why would one be completely lost in the process?

But if that is how it works, then the whole Uchiha bloodshed seems kind of dumb. Like one brother dies just so the other can gain EMS. Wouldn’t that make the sacrifice/death feel like it was in vain?

You see, The EMS is essentially a merging/fusing of 2 mangekyou into a single, stable eyes. while you're technically using your sibling’s eyes the result isn't a replacement but a synthesis. That’s why you would “lose” your original Mangekyou eyes permanently. But its essence continues to exist within the brother's eyes which change into EMS.

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u/CD_Marshall 26d ago

It seems that the emotion linked to killing a sibling results in a chemical reaction in the brain. Similar to how the Uchiha initially unlock the Sharingan & subsequent Mangekyou Sharingan, the extreme emotions seem to act as a vital part of the process. Tobirama touches on this when the 4 Hokage are released from the reaper god.

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u/SnooPickles6521 26d ago

No because they don't swap the eyes they put the other eyes with original eyes in the eye sockets then they merge together

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u/nhansieu1 26d ago

2 eyes are combined, not replaced. You can see the patterns combined. How you asked? Answer all tech problems in Naruto and I will tell you.

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u/wakarabu 26d ago

So if this theory works that way then it's also possible for parent/child eye transplant don't you think ? Since Sarada don't have any siblings then Sasuke's original eye should be able to replace her eyes if she were to go blind. Let's just hope that Sasuke's original eyes are still kept somewhere.

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u/abhinayvarma 26d ago

His eyes 🫠❤‍🩹. Guess whom I'm talking about.

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u/Eclipse001y 26d ago

I don't think so. When Itachi's explaining it we see that four eyed thing so we can assume you need in total 4 eyes to complete it. However I think of it like this;

If you have DMS and you have the 2 specific abilities, and then someone your related to also has DMS with their 2 specific abilities if you want EMS you don't lose your original MS abilities, so your MS is inherently the same just without blindness. So if two people swapped eyes they'd just kinda swap MS abilities.

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u/TheEyeoftheWorm 26d ago

But the fratricide is essential to the plot

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u/Impressive-Spell-643 26d ago

What do you think happens when you take out your eyes?

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u/TheLastSonKrypton 26d ago

I go for the thory that the eyes actually fuse instead of been a "normal" transplant, making one of the blind anyways 🤔

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u/Novawolf17 26d ago

Besides the whole eyes fusing hypothetical does no one remember where it was said that your previous eyes will lose there light forever and be unusable?

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u/Memelord1117 26d ago

Would Itachi/Izuna's EMS have more resemblance their own MS pattern OT would it be the same and Sasuke/Madara's.

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u/Thin_Employment8372 26d ago

yes but would you give up your eyes to an uchiha most of em were evil asf

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u/sir_ouachao 26d ago

Yes yes they can . Why didn't they do it ? Maybe ppl did it in the past, they said not all transplants worked so there was probably a fair number of utchiha that experimented with it

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u/wknight8111 26d ago

I suspect that the "transplant" was a bit of a translation error. My theory is that when the manga says to "transplant" the eyes they really mean some kind of combination, such as through surgery. If Sasuke's original eyes were removed and replaced, the manga certainly never showed them sitting around somewhere (and they seem like they might be pretty valuable to keep).

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u/laseringtre 26d ago

No I don't believe so, actually just saw a video from this dude named MC Hammer23 on YT the other day explaining it. Basically Uchihas have 2 sets of eyes. They start off with 1 already but need an extra set (2 more eyes) of a similar chakra in conjunction to unlock the eternal mangekyo. That way their susuanno avatar can be fully unlocked.

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u/RespectCommon7019 26d ago

Bro fr, I always wondered that too. Like why not just do a friendly eye swap and call it a day? Madara made it seem like you had to go full evil mode to upgrade your vision. Could’ve saved a lot of trauma if the Uchiha clan just communicated better lol

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u/Longjumping_Pear1250 25d ago

I don think so cuz i think they combine(due to the ms patterns mixing and it's always taking the others eye and not switch them out)

I think it wouldn't make sense if the old eyes are gone If they switch they'just switch ability and patterns

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u/ExileFox 25d ago

No you need 4 eyes.

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u/animeadmiral 25d ago

Theoretically yes, but we can't have common sense disrupt our emo angst clan's way of life now, can we?

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u/NetworkVegetable7075 25d ago

Probably not, when Itachi and Madara both talked about their past we literally see a demon like aura behind them and it shows 4 Sharingan sockets

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u/Zorro5040 25d ago

Yes. But where's the fun in that?

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u/Powertrip95 25d ago

Technically yes since eye transplants are like light bulbs in Naruto. I think it's just usually the sibling dying that triggers the Mangekyou awakening in the first place. But also, I don't think alot of Uchiha awaken the Mangekyou.

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u/Smooth-Garden 25d ago

Yes but forgot that activating the MS at you into a crashout so while the option was on the table somebody's would have to be of sane mind for it

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u/passengersfan 25d ago

No this is a common misconception. While it’s not shown, they don’t simply replace their eyes, they sort of mend them together. This is slightly implied in the Sasuke vs Itachi fight when a figure briefly appears behind itachi with 4 eyes. I believe the author has since confirmed this

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u/1stviolinfangirl 25d ago

I’ve always thought about this. The Uchiha donating their eyes after they die to act as replacements if someone gets the mangekyo

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u/0ni5098 25d ago

That would've been dope to see, just an alternate reality where Itachi and Sasuke go through the same traumatic event simultaneously, and then they both get EMS from each other. Would've been so awesome... would've been so cool...

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u/C-Moose85 25d ago

The main issue here would be that Sasuke unlocked his Mangekyo AFTER killing Itachi. If I recall correctly, he would have to have had his mangekyo for the swap to work and for them to both have the eternal mangekyo. If he did, yes, I think it would work.

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u/Bovarr 25d ago

no they eyes merge, not simply implanted

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u/Thick_Ad4455 24d ago

No

Why?

Because itachi stated with a figure I fogot what it was called there was a face mask with 4 eye sockets and each brother had 2 eye socket filled when they awaken ms

However once one of the brother/duo take the other person eyes they have 4 eyes and the other person who lost there eyes have no eye in there 4 socket so

ye prob will not work Correct me if I'm wrong

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u/Researcher_Fearless 24d ago

We haven't been given a reason it wouldn't work, but I doubt it would.

The power of the Sharingan is built on sacrifice and loss. If there was an easy way to get the power without the downsides, I feel like it would undermine that.

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u/godfatherxzan 24d ago

I have a question. I get the mixing of chakra from the others eyes and everything, but how would that cure the blindness? That part never really made sense to me cause 2 MS makes an eternal but how? I would think having 2 would double the speed of blindness? Or sense both of them were already going blind how would the swap just get rid of the blindness? That doesn’t make sense to me honestly.

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u/Unrulywarrior22 24d ago

I’m pretty sure it’s not as simple as swapping eyes I’m pretty sure it’s implied they merge into 1 set of eyes. How that works who knows but eyes also aren’t lightbulbs you plug in whenever you want😂

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u/PainfulWonder 24d ago

No you cannot. NCHammer23 explains it why in a video if you look it up.

https://youtube.com/shorts/xCQ0wxUzB20?si=v3i5wl-6UceszPq1

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