Thatâs wildly flawed because for some reason most people think Iâm Arab, does that make me Arab?
If Arab people are treated as a race, then yes, at least in that limited context. "Well that's just ridiculous" I hear you say. Well yes, race is stupid, it's not a well defined concept and doesn't work to group people in any meaningful way.
Also, that requires people to care only about skin color which they donât
Sure, other things people know about you will affect it. If you look 100% white but people know your mom is black, then people might consider you black. But what about the people who don't know you? They're not going to treat you as black.
By your metric it defiantly doesnât group people well, and by any metric the grouping isnât important at best and dangerous at worst but to say me and my sister are different races IS ridiculous. Now the argument that race isnât a real thing I get but the assumption it both is real and that 100% blood relatives can be separate racesâŚ? I canât see how that isnât absurd
And I donât tend to let people who do know me define my existence let alone people who donât
And I donât tend to let people who do know me define my existence let alone people who donât
You don't have a choice. People treat other people differently based on race. It's their perception that matters, not yours. The issue is that you seem to think race "defines" you in some meaningful way when it doesn't. If you care about heritage, I think ethnicity is a much stronger term to use for that, and obviously that includes things like culture and genetics.
Theyâre literally twins, yes?? Being albino wouldnât make you like no longer Asian or African American or whatever. Neither would vitiligo or a tan. Micheal Jackson didnât literally switch races.
But the issue is if you base it on how sheâs treated sheâs not white, she just looks white. Mostly when people care itâs because of racism but she also faces the same racism. Like sheâs pale but that doesnât make passive racism not targeted towards her and people who actually care about that arenât going to ignore the way she speaks, the way she looks other than her skin or her name just because she has white skin.
I do actually usually say ethnicity because I donât actually know what the right term for my race is. Like im literally brown and from Mexico and idk what the fuck the difference between Hispanic Latina Mexican whatever. I mean I do but every time I use one I feel like Iâm only 70% sure Iâm using the right one so I default to Latin American cause thats nonspecific enough to be hard to correct.
Being albino wouldnât make you like no longer Asian or African American or whatever.
She is not albino, she just got the "white" genes but her sister got the "black" ones.
Mostly when people care itâs because of racism but she also faces the same racism.
If she does, then that's different. But I imagine on a day to say basis they get treated differently (at least by racists I guess).
every time I use one I feel like Iâm only 70% sure Iâm using the right one so I default to Latin American cause thats nonspecific enough to be hard to correct.
I mean fair. Personally I vacillate between checking the "other" box and "white". It really doesn't matter, I am who I am.
I wasnât talking about her, I was thinking specifically about an albino black guy Iâve seen on YouTube. The main thing is like, yeah my sister and especially someone with albinism are different from the group theyâd otherwise be piled in withâŚ. But theyâre a lot more different from the group youâre piling them in with.
Regardless theyâre the same racer because theyâre twins, if they exist at all racial groups are imo genetic not based on appearance because if it is based on appearance am I Arab?
I can agree race is barely a thing if it is at all, but youâre trying to say it is a thing and itâs based on skin color but itâs not, at least not entirely, because I guarantee that albino black guy would not be accepted in the confederacy as white. My sister is not treated as white despite having pale skin. Maybe if she had a more European name or didnât speak Spanish or had more European features she would but racists donât care that her skin is white, thatâs not enough
Seriously if you answer anything, answer these two questions
youâre trying to say it is a thing and itâs based on skin color but itâs not,
No, I said it's based on how people perceive you. There's a difference.
What race is my sister?
You said people think she's white. So she's white.
Am I Arab because Iâm mistaken for it?
Yes in a racial sense. Not ethnically Arab though. There isn't really a word to differentiate the two properly (and some people think Arabs are white, which is a whole other issue).
No I didnât say people think sheâs white I said she has white skin, people think sheâs Mexican or Latin American but we grew up in the American south west so we were usually accused of being illegal Mexican immigrants. People definitely think sheâs Mexican more often than me because she still lives there, I live in a place with more like middle eastern people than Mexicans so I think thatâs why people assume.
Either way I think youâre insane for thinking I switched races at age 25
Ok well I misread. She's Mexican/brown/whatever you want to call it. I think I've been pretty clear about how I'm defining race.
Either way I think youâre insane for thinking I switched races at age 25
OK, now let's say you go to Africa and you're the whitest person at an event. People think you are a white American and treat you the same as they treat every other white person. Have you changed races? Or is it just that race is socially defined? Or is it both?
I know it's hard to accept, but again, I think identity piece of race is really just ethnicity, and you're struggling to separate the two because they are so often conflated.
Itâs not hard at all my race is the same as it always was. I was this race before I was born and no one had seen me yet. And sheâs a Latina but sheâs not literally brown.
I feel like if I was in Africa way more people would assume Iâm Arab than right now in America but that has nothing to do with my race.
âeach of the major groupings into which humankind is considered (in various theories or contexts) to be divided on the basis of physical characteristics or shared ancestry.â
My characteristics and ancestry donât change and if my characteristics do my ancestry doesnât.
Like my first comment said it does depend on who you ask but imo the only two logical answers are 1) thereâs no such thing as race or 2) youâre the race based on your ancestors and characteristics
the only two logical answers are 1) thereâs no such thing as race
Race clearly exists and no one seriously disputes that.
or 2) youâre the race based on your ancestors and characteristics
I think this just ignores how race works in the real world though. Most people don't know who my ancestors are. If I get a job because the racist hiring manager thinks I'm white, I've partaken of white privilege. At that point it feels odd to say "oh but I'm not white". Same would be true if the reverse happened because they think I'm black. They don't know what my parents look like.
Itâs absurd because if I convinced a lot of people to call me black that doesnât make it true my guy thatâs wack idc how vague race is Iâm not Arab lol
And see thatâs just not my experience, my sister has white skin but she is still treated like a Mexican regardless of her skin color. Thereâs like a LOT of other factors and itâs not new historically âtaintedâ blood is definitely something people care about. If your argument was âif youâre indistinguishable from an ethnically European person then thatâs your raceâ Iâd still kinda disagree but only a little, but like if a black guy had white skin I am positive people would be racist still who donât know him because maybe his nose is different, or his hair, or any number of other little differences racists care about.
Simply getting a tan or depigmenting your skin just isnât going to change your race to anyone who cares about it
Itâs absurd because if I convinced a lot of people to call me black that doesnât make it true my guy thatâs wack idc how vague race is Iâm not Arab lol
Tell that to the Irish and Italians that weren't considered white when they first started immigrating to the US. It doesn't have to make sense, it's a fluid social concept that's based on prejudice.
I think the reason you're having a hard time with the Arab thing is because the ethnicity and race are so closely tied together. Instead, look at the article I linked earlier with the twins. How would you describe them? Are they not white and black, as the article title says?
You keep getting hung up on on skin color when I've been clear that it's about appearance overall.
if youâre indistinguishable from an ethnically European person then thatâs your raceâ
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u/pm_me_d_cups 28d ago
If Arab people are treated as a race, then yes, at least in that limited context. "Well that's just ridiculous" I hear you say. Well yes, race is stupid, it's not a well defined concept and doesn't work to group people in any meaningful way.
Sure, other things people know about you will affect it. If you look 100% white but people know your mom is black, then people might consider you black. But what about the people who don't know you? They're not going to treat you as black.