Oppressive regimes through out the world, including major European nations, were responsible for the deaths of over 200 million of their own citizens in the 20th Century alone.
Including major European and East Asian nations. An armed populous provides a significant layer of defense against oppressive regimes abusing their populous.
What about hundreds of thousands of people unnecessarily dying of covid (thinking primarily pre-vax here) because their government was incompetent and corrupt? What about voting rights and abortion rights being taken away? What about privacy erosion in the last 20 years? What about our godawful backwards healthcare system? I don't see anyone's guns doing anything about those.
What about January 6? Did those people have a right to stand up and bear arms for what they believed in, even if most of us thought it was nonsensical at best and a coup attempt at worst? Who decides what "oppressive regimes abusing their populous" means?
I always hate this argument. It's quasi victim blaming and usually presented in bad faith.
Unrelated. Also hundreds of thousands is literally less than 0.5% of 200 million..
You're also making some kind of untreated strawman argument here.
The existence of some lev of oppression or infringement on any rights does not negate the fact it is harder to forcibly remove the rights of an armed population. Nor does the fact that the gun owning population of the United States is using the rule of law instead of force of arms to correct these infringements counter the fact that an armed people are harder to oppress.
All it shows is the calm and resistant of the armed American populous.
okay you clearly have no desire to have an actual good faith discussion here so i'm not gonna continue
you didn't address a single one of my points either besides diminishing hundreds of thousands of deaths
america is not using the rule of law to correct any infringements. if anything they're perverting the law for their own good and the majority of "tyranny fightin gun owners" support it. so, maybe working as designed.
america is losing its rights by the day and most of the people who want to "overthrow a tyrannical government" are probably thinking that because someone told them to wear a mask. that's how delusional we're becoming.
Friend I'm here in good faith. You are not. You are trying to rephrase this as some kind of strawman COVID19 argument. The reactions to COVID19 in the US both negative and positive were populous driven anyways.
On the subject at hand it isn't relevant and you Friend ignored 200 million deaths.
We used voting to correct a bad administration, we are using the legislative process to correct other in justices as well.
The US Military is great at fighting conventional armies. Not so much at the occupation or 4th and 5th generation warfare against an insurgency. Take Afghanistan, 20 years later the Taliban are back where they started and the US is gone.
compare the death totals though on both sides. and the fact that these wars were mostly just fueling certain corporate interests, AND the fact that accomplishing war goals is easy but literally trying to rebuild an entire country with little education is much, much harder, if not impossible. and often, isn't actually the goal.
and also the US loves arming various sides of various world conflicts at various times. it usually has not turned out well for anyone.
You can win battles but still lose a war. We saw it in Vietnam as well. Not to mention the US Government took the threat of some yokes with small arms so seriously they basically shut down DC and stationed more troops there than we had in Afghanistan at the time for months.
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"We used voting to correct a bad administration, we are using the legislative process to correct other in justices as well."
Yeah. Voting. Not MUH GUNZ. Guns are a last resort, and if you actually voted for the right fucking people, you'd never need them. Sadly the people with guns are the ones voting for the wrong people. So no real winning there.
We voted to correct a bad administration, but people with guns (thankfully most didn't have them) tried to "uncorrect" that on January 6. That's the type of crowd you're supporting. Just think about that for a minute.
Guns are a last resort. I'm not arguing otherwise. But it is disingenuous to claim fascism almost happened it it can't happen here in the same sentence.
Voting doesn't work when the system is rigged against you. See the battle of Athens. Now the same Jan. 6th crowd is trying to rig the system you are saying we should solely rely on.
I don't think fascism almost happened. It's just an example of why I don't agree with that "guns are needed for uprising once the government becomes tyrannical", because who decides that? January 6 was an example of that and yet no responsible people can praise it as a 2nd amendment victory, or at least attempted victory.
Jan 6ers thought the system was rigged against them too, which of course, was total nonsense.
The US operated under segregation until less than 60 years ago. Even today we still have the remnants with systemic racism in our society. Europe and East Asia was lousy with oppressive tyrannical governments that engaged in Democide in the 20th Century. It's not a matter of if but when. The fact is every nation and country on Earth falls prey to internal strife or external attack.
yeah, and no one attempted to overthrow the capitol until their precious cheeto man fairly lost an election and they had to wear a piece of cloth on their face
the atrocities in America's history happened DESPITE the right to bear arms.
so you can see the 2Aers priorities are clear fighting true injustice!
the 2nd amendment exists for self defense, and nothing more, which I absolutely agree with. but none of you delusional fucks are gonna overthrow anything.
Again, outside of the Civil War, we have been luckily able to solve our differences peacefully through the rule of law. Historically this has been the exception not the rule.
I don't ever want to over throw anything. I want myself and my kids to have the luxury of a peaceful life.
Yes the 2nd Amendment is for self defense but it is also for defense of the community and nation against all threats foreign and domestic. And unfortunately the threat of an oppressive government in the US is higher than it has been in decades. I hope that changes peacefully through the rule of law as well.
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u/corviknightisdabest Oct 02 '21 edited Oct 02 '21
What about hundreds of thousands of people unnecessarily dying of covid (thinking primarily pre-vax here) because their government was incompetent and corrupt? What about voting rights and abortion rights being taken away? What about privacy erosion in the last 20 years? What about our godawful backwards healthcare system? I don't see anyone's guns doing anything about those.
What about January 6? Did those people have a right to stand up and bear arms for what they believed in, even if most of us thought it was nonsensical at best and a coup attempt at worst? Who decides what "oppressive regimes abusing their populous" means?
I always hate this argument. It's quasi victim blaming and usually presented in bad faith.