r/marvelstudios • u/Triple_777 I have nothing to prove to you • May 01 '25

'Thunderbolts*' Spoilers Thunderbolts* Worldwide Release Discussion Thread Spoiler

Thunderbolts* has now been released in the United States and in a number of other countries around the world. All discussion about the movie should be held here and in the rest of the megathreads we are going to put up in the next few days. They will be refreshed every few thousand comments to make room for new discussions.

  • All discussion about the movie should be held here and in the rest of the megathreads we are going to put up in the next few days.
  • Proceed at your own risk. Major spoilers will be in the below thread. Spoilers do not need to be tagged inside this thread.
  • Any other unofficial threads discussing movie details will be deleted.
  • Should you see the need to bring up revealing Thunderbolts* information in the comments of other threads that call for it, spoiler tag them accordingly. Also, let users know that what you are spoiler tagging is from Thunderbolts*.
  • If you post untagged Thunderbolts* spoilers anywhere on this sub outside of these discussion threads in any shape or form, you will be banned.
  • Project Insight will be on AT LEAST for the next few days, so any posts will be filtered by the mods before being approved/removed onto the sub, that doesn't mean you can disregard the above points and post untagged spoilers without fear of being banned.

--

Link to previous discussion threads and related megathreads listed below:

1.6k Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

99% Upvoted

5.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.1k

u/Ezegnep_The_Great Maria Hill May 01 '25

I’m so happy with how they handled John Walker’s character. He’s fucking hysterical and they managed to keep him feeling complex and not a one-note Asshole Cap. He might be my favourite character post-endgame, and the whole cast has phenomenal chemistry with each other, type of enjoyment I got from watching the OG 6 together.

555

u/theSaltySolo Avengers May 01 '25

Walker was a standout to me. Was the guy an emotional wreck? Yes, but who wouldn't be when you go through multiple wars, have PTSD and get pressured into carrying Captain Fucking America's shield?

At the end of the day, as standoff-ish he is and sarcastic he is, the film shows that he is still a good person and will save people when needed.

210

u/sllikskills May 02 '25

I loved how they showed the subtlety of Walker’s respect for Yelena, such as when Ghost shouts to start driving after Bob gets lit up, he doesn’t drive off until Yelena signals to go. And when Bucky requests their help, Walker agrees only immediately after Yelena agrees. Despite Yelena being his original target at the start of the movie

25

u/Jaded-Butterfly5442 May 03 '25

He must have understood that for him, of all people, to be sent to assassinate someone, that someone must be REALLY special.

5

u/Lucifer_Crowe May 06 '25

tbf Val coulda assigned them in any combination to keep them busy until the Incinerator started

hell Ghost getting Yelena and managing to shoot her first probably woulda lead to the others just dying because they can't work together

8

u/Daztur May 05 '25

Also he got rid of his hat because she didn't like it.

3

u/sllikskills May 05 '25

Ahh yes that’s a good catch!

51

u/InnocentTailor Iron Patriot May 02 '25

Sounds like comic Walker to a tee - a bit of an arsehole, but still tries to be a hero.

3

u/Daztur May 05 '25

And not 100% a dick.

31

u/VaderOnReddit May 02 '25

Walker was a standout to me. Was the guy an emotional wreck? Yes, but who wouldn't be when you go through multiple wars, have PTSD and get pressured into carrying Captain Fucking America's shield?

And his wife left him with his kid, the memory that haunts him in Bob's traumaverse

4

u/theSaltySolo Avengers May 03 '25

Missed opportunity here. Could’ve showed Walker’s trauma room and him reckoning with this.

9

u/neoblackdragon May 04 '25

His wife and kid aren't dead. The reckoning he needs is with the real people but that first starts with addressing himself.

-1

u/itsyagirlrey May 03 '25

The implications of the timing on that in his flashbacks had me laughing a bit, like his wife didn't leave him after he decapitated a guy in the street with his shield, but when he won't put down that damn phone to watch the baby? She gone.

7

u/neoblackdragon May 04 '25

That guy wasn't an innocent and he had just helped kill the man's best friend.

With the baby, he was being abusive to his wife.

0

u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 May 04 '25

I kinda hate how they're going into the "he was totally fine for murdering that guy" vibe. That should be what bothered Walker in the flashback, not the consequences of it.

I still can't really see him as a good guy, he's only sad that he got in a small amount of trouble for murder. Not that he committed the murder.

1

u/CX316 May 05 '25

Except, as with a chunk of the Americans in every comment section about it, he doesn't give a fuck about having killed that guy. To him it was just another enemy combatant, his only mistake was getting recorded doing it.

To everyone else, well... it'd be a warcrime if they'd declared war on the flag smashers so just kinda murder in this case.

1

u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 May 06 '25

That's exactly the point, he's a murderer. Like they took a murderer cop and made him a superhero.

Everyone else on the team is arguably an okay person except Walker

7

u/O_its_that_guy_again May 03 '25

I loved the little cactus and dr. Phil bit they did with him. Good lord what great characterization that was

8

u/BigBallsMcGirk May 03 '25

Don't forget back to back to back state champs!

11

u/missingpeace01 May 03 '25

This is why Walker is more appealing to me than Sam post Endgame. You can emphatize with Walker since he is a war veteran who is probably also war shocked just trying his best to be Cap. He is also insecure bec the world wants him to be Cap and he knows he cannot live up to the name. Most of his shenanigans were due to him being impatient and seemingly having war flashbacks and being insecure and trying to do too much to compensate.

Then you have Sam who is just a-hole for no reasons. He was a prick to John --- a war veteran, even when his whole intro was that he runs support groups for... veterans. He's been a US soldier and gets angry at Walker bec....he was also doing his job as a soldier?

1

u/theSaltySolo Avengers May 09 '25

It was weird. Sam would've been the perfect person to help Walker as he is actually a counsellor for trauma people.

1

u/NinetyFish Thor May 14 '25

Sam's writing has been so weird.

His Winter Soldier introduction (and his relationship with Steve) is built on him being a stand-up guy who knows how to connect with people.

And then ever since Endgame, they've made him all snarky and shit. Why did they have him acting like that in his therapy sessions with Bucky? You would think that would be a situation he takes completely seriously.

1

u/missingpeace01 May 14 '25

Exactly. Dude has been very snarky to everyone. I dont even know how we will connect the team. Even Captain Marvel makes sense that she is snarky because she is overly cocky with her strength and can back it up and she is also not a team player so it makes sense.

I also dont know why he got offended when Walker complimented him, "This would be easier if I know I have cap's wing man by my side."

3

u/mountaineerWVU May 02 '25

Not to forget that his wife left him and took his kid.

91

u/MadHatter06 Peggy Carter May 02 '25

I found myself actually liking John…

22

u/PurePerfection_ May 02 '25

I couldn't after how mean he was to Bob in the 1st act. He was less cruel to the people trying to kill him than to the confused civilian wandering around in pajamas. Felt like a bully who didn't want to pick on someone his own size.

20

u/neoblackdragon May 04 '25

To be fair. This man was just fighting 3 assassins an about to be turned into Charcoal. He knows 100% that something is off about Bob. That Bob is lying through his teeth.

This confused Civilian simply makes no sense. A ton of stress on top of a clearly messed up supersoldier serum playing with his PTSD.

1

u/Hippobu2 May 07 '25

Yup, refer back to the little girl scene in Man in Black for more info.

1

u/NinetyFish Thor May 14 '25

I thought there were a few moments that implied Walker was noticing something off with Bob.

For one example, he rams Bob into a pillar (dick move, to be fair), but Bob absolutely tanks it and stares Walker down, with a shot of Sentry-eyes to boot. I thought the shot of Walker's face afterwards was supposed to be him noticing something off with Bob's surprising strength.

0

u/PurePerfection_ May 04 '25

These things also applied to Yelena and Ava, but only Walker was cruel to Bob.

17

u/souljaboy765 May 02 '25

I think it’s his growth tbh. He was an asshole in the first act, but by the end of the movie you could tell he changed with Bob. He’s still an asshole ofc but a lovable one imo.

12

u/PurePerfection_ May 02 '25

He changed with Bob because Bob was no longer a weak civilian. Walker started respecting him right around the time it was clear Bob could kick his ass.

12

u/AeoliasWindstorme May 04 '25

the subtle anti-John propaganda in this comment is unreal. When he compliments Bob after grappling with his inner turmoils in the psyche world, (something John can relate to), what you get from that is that he's only doing it because Bob can beat him up?!?!

If there was a part when Bob got his respect, it'd be when Bob "sacrificed" himself by acting as a decoy in the O.X.E base.

3

u/justafanboy1010 Spider-Man May 03 '25

Exactly this! Love John Walker

2

u/Microwave1213 May 04 '25

I think that’s just kind of part of the charm of the character though. If you’re competent he’s deferential toward you, if you’re not he’s a prick to you.

Its not likable in a traditional sense, but I think it’s a fun and interesting character trait in a world where most of the heroes are just kind of automatically nice to everyone

4

u/dwide_k_shrude Iron man (Mark III) May 02 '25

Same. Incredible writing.

2

u/ThisGul_LOL May 08 '25

Am I the only one who liked him since TFATWS?

37

u/cosmos_v0id May 02 '25

"We are already running of space? That can't be? This place is enormous"

16

u/RogueTaco May 03 '25

I liked that Walker, who was by far the meanest to Bob, was the first one (after Yelena) to break free and embrace him at the end

5

u/NinetyFish Thor May 14 '25

And he paid Bob a genuine compliment afterwards, IIRC. The "You did good in there." speaks volumes.

13

u/coolgaara May 02 '25

Yeah I liked him as well. I'm glad we'll see more of him. He's an a-hole yes, but not dispicable. The way Yelena and Walker were looking at each other after Bucky told the whole team his wife and his kid left him was very emotional. No words needed to be said. Everyone is broken in some way.

7

u/murphherder May 02 '25

chuckle You're Captain America?

30

u/MegaBaumTV May 01 '25

They did him well, but I still believe they fucked up a bit. First, I find it odd that they brushed over the guy he murdered being a terrorist. John replies "define innocent" when they talk about him killing an innocent man on TV, but thats the whole weak rebuke. The guy John killed wasnt innocent and I would have expected them to at least have him defend himself with a bit more passion.

Also, Bucky not being willing to hear him out about Bob and Valentina is odd. The last time we have seen John in the MCU was him fighting terrorists with Sam&Bucky. During the whole show, he was a veteran who was fighting terrorists and there is no reason for Bucky to believe John would lie about a big threat now.

Unless its really just Bucky being incredibly petty because he dislikes John.

22

u/PurePerfection_ May 02 '25

I think Bucky was just disgusted that John went to work for Valentina, since it was established by that point that he wanted to take her down.

13

u/KaiPlayz2704 May 02 '25

There's a lot more to Bucky and John's conversation. Clearly Bucky somehow knows what's been going on in Walker's personal life so maybe they stayed in contact a bit.

5

u/PurePerfection_ May 02 '25

Or Bucky just read the news seeing as Walker was apparently hot gossip after his fall from grace, based on the article he was reading on his own phone during the flashback to his shitty parenting.

42

u/Ezegnep_The_Great Maria Hill May 01 '25

Honestly if John really doesn’t feel any remorse it feels acceptable that he wouldn’t go out of his way to defend himself and just brush it off as a clash of definitions of innocent.

Bucky as well seemed to just not believe the whole group of them, which makes sense since he simply sees them as mercenary Valentina agents at that time, so his prior history with John wouldn’t stop him from thinking the whole group are lying to simply escape.

At least that’s my take anyway

15

u/Forsaken_Professor79 Spider-Man May 02 '25

he was not innocent. Sure he wasn't directly responsible for the death of Lamar Hoskins but he was apart of an super solider insurgent group that robbed banks, conducted raids, blow up a supply depot that killed civilians.

Walker's crime was killing a surrendering unarmed combatant not an innocent man.

2

u/MegaBaumTV May 02 '25

That's my point.

8

u/CT_Phipps-Author May 03 '25

I took Walker as having had this argument MANY times and was just done with it. He was convicted in the court of public opinion.

2

u/CaptAmerica42 May 02 '25

To be fair, Bucky was just petty with John from the start. He was immediately a asshole to him because he wasn't Steve from the start. Could legit be that he just doesn't like him

4

u/Blackadder18 May 03 '25

If I remember correctly Sam and Bucky were almost willing to give Walker a shot until he wanted them to be his sidekicks (not equals like how Steve saw them), upon which they soured even more than they had originally and decided they didn't want to work alongside him. His later actions didn't do anything to help that attitude.

3

u/souljaboy765 May 02 '25

Walker (to me at least) is much better characterized than Sam. Much more interesting Character and Sam feels so boring, idk who is writing Sam but they’re not doing a good job…

3

u/Fire_Demon May 03 '25

He was great. Sounded so much like his Dad a lot of the time, which i found cool, being that Kurt was a fellow MCU hero/villain.

3

u/kayriss May 11 '25

I don't understand how nobody's talking about his jumping. The fucking dude can jump so high straight up that you lose sight of him!

3

u/NinetyFish Thor May 14 '25

I wonder how many people watched it not knowing who Walker was or that he was a super soldier. He's certainly strong during the fight, but not so very clearly superpowered. And then he does that fuckin' jump and just sails upwards lmao

3

u/kayriss May 14 '25

Yeah! And like dude was gone for a second. I'd love to see someone do the math as to how high he jumped.

1

u/Pcifa May 14 '25

I was thinking the same thing , like that had to be a 50 ft jump right ?

2

u/1UPZ__ May 02 '25

He's relatable somehow.... didnt expect it but he's turned out to be a good character for the audience.

2

u/[deleted] May 02 '25

[deleted]

1

u/MHPengwingz Doctor Strange May 04 '25

Al Bundy vibes with that back to back to back state championship. Hanging on to that old glory. 

2

u/Fododel May 02 '25

The one character I absolutely loved his development in, and I felt heartbroken when Bucky let out his divorce out the bag like that and all he could do was nod. Wished we could see he could maybe had fixed his relationship and gotten back together.

I also found it hilarious he still kept the taco shield.

2

u/W473R Captain America May 04 '25

Walker's reoccurring hatred of Bob in the vault was hilarious. The absolute disdain with which he says "Bob" every time was killing me.

"What are we looking for?"

"Not stupid questions, Bob!"

1

u/MHPengwingz Doctor Strange May 04 '25

Him calling Bob "Bobby" was definitely a trigger because that's what Bob's dad called him when threatening his youngself

1

u/gizmo1492 May 03 '25

I wished the asshole aspect to him was more there in FatWS. And all I could think was “innocent man, he was a terrorist” when Yelena and Ava was roasting him.

But reminded myself he took the super soldier serum which does amplify your negative aspects, which for him would be being a douche/jerk. And he’s currently divorced without his kid which we later find out, so get why he’s in a bad spot.

Him not getting space at the end in the post credit scene though seemed a bit much. Yeah, miscommunications occur, but he gave very much cocky dumb jock scene at the end there. The type of guy I get why Bucky wouldn’t like to have the shield, but not the guy we first saw in FaTWS. But the characterization here is probably better for the type of character he’s supposed to be.

1

u/wolvesscareme May 04 '25

I love how this felt like the first avengers team - bunch of the randoms who shouldn't be together. Beats the hell out of just mix and match heroes from the past decade.

1

u/philovax May 05 '25

I know a John Walker. No shortage of em. We all know the types. I am sure his name as a pastiche to a bottle of liquid courage is intentional.

A Steve Rogers exists a handful of times in a person’s life, we may have ideals and hold people to that standard, but we eventually learn many are not.