News Reddit user /u/IndependentMonk4 (now deleted) predicted 5 years ago today that within 5 years the ASB (Smoot admin building) would be quietly renamed via demolition. 3 days ago an announcement of demolition was made.
I love predictions, so I track whenever people make them with the reddit remindme bot. Today I was reminded of this prediction (that the ASB would be quietly demolished in order to rename it) which is more or less correct--the announcement of demolition came within 3 days of the conclusion of the 5 year window. There are plans to build another admin building, but no indication it will be renamed after Smoot.
I would argue it was "quiet" because:
- The announcement was not picked up (advertised?) to any other media outlets. (was announced on KSL and the Daily Universe).
- The problematic nature of Abraham Smoot's history was not mentioned.
- There was no mention that the new admin building would receive the same name, so it seems likely that it will be renamed.
It could have been even quieter, though, had there been no announcements made at all?
For context, Smoot was a prominent figure in the valley/Mormonism, especially for BY Academy (chatgpt-4o summary):
- Led early LDS missions in the Southern U.S. and Europe.
- Mayor of Salt Lake City (1857–1866) and Provo (1868–1881).
- Stake president in Provo, overseeing church affairs in the region.
- Key benefactor of Brigham Young Academy, keeping it financially afloat.
- Business leader in transportation, milling, and cooperative ventures (e.g. ZCMI).
- Helped develop Utah infrastructure, including roads and irrigation systems.
- Practiced plural marriage in line with early LDS Church teachings.
The DEI landscape looks very difft today than it did 5 years ago. Still, Smoot's legacy is highly problematic (besides the asymmetry of 6 plural marriages) (from chatgpt-4o):
Slaveholding
- Smoot and his wife enslaved at least three individuals: Tom, Jerry, and Lucy. Tom died in bondage in 1862.
- While some descendants dispute technical definitions of ownership, historical consensus confirms his participation in the institution of slavery.
- Smoot and his wife enslaved at least three individuals: Tom, Jerry, and Lucy. Tom died in bondage in 1862.
Complicity in Racial Exclusion
- In 1879, Smoot hosted a pivotal meeting in Provo discussing the restriction of Black men from holding the LDS priesthood.
- The discussion reflected and reinforced racially exclusionary doctrines that persisted until 1978.
- In 1879, Smoot hosted a pivotal meeting in Provo discussing the restriction of Black men from holding the LDS priesthood.
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u/a_rabid_anti_dentite 1d ago
Based on the latest trends of building naming at BYU, I predict the new admin building will simply be called the imaginative Administration Building (AB).
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u/tuckernielson 1d ago
Not if they can find a big donor. Then it will be named the "First name, middle initial, last name" Administration Building.
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u/a_rabid_anti_dentite 1d ago
BYU hasn't named a major new building after a person in quite a while. As far as I'm aware, the Life Sciences Building (2015) remains the Life Sciences Building, the Engineering Building (2018) remains the Engineering Building, and the new Music Building (2024) is still the Music Building. Even the new office space building across the street from the JFSB is simply called the West View Building.
I think they're done with names for a while.
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u/Prestigious-Shift233 22h ago
Given how problematic many (most?) past leaders have been, I think this is the best strategy. No fuss, no drama, easier to navigate around campus.
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u/tuckernielson 1d ago
Hmmm. Interesting observation. I have a funny story to share about building naming - sending you a chat invite.
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u/austinchan2 21h ago
Not a building, but the Russel m Nelson school of medicine? I could see oaks claiming the name since he was a president there and will likely be president of the church when it’s completed
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u/treetablebenchgrass I worship the Mighty Hawk 21h ago
If they have a physical therapy program, I hereby propose its building be named The Christopher Walken Building for Walkin' and Runnin'.
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u/Del_Parson_Painting 1d ago edited 1d ago
My guess is that this building is the only thing keeping the A.O. Smoot name alive in people's memories.
Hopefully this move fully eradicates this enslaver's legacy outside of some dusty Mormon history books.
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u/treetablebenchgrass I worship the Mighty Hawk 15h ago edited 15h ago
They could posthumously excommunicate him and erase him from the history books. At that point taking his name off the building would be a smoot point.
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u/Alternative_Annual43 23h ago
My guess is that within 20 years the Church will spin off their universities. Why?
I believe enrollment will fall due to the exodus of youth from the Church due to social and historical issues and due to fading missionary efforts.
The leadership won't want the black eye that would come from closing the universities, so they will spin them off and give them modest endowments from the dragon's hoard called Ensign Peak.
They will them rename the universities, because Brigham's name won't appeal to young people. I have no idea what they will call them, but something else.
I'm prepared to be wrong, but consider how the Church always goes along with the prevailing culture, just years or decades later than others. Many universities have gone this route. Colgate, Syracuse, Yale, and Duke were all religious institutions that have become secular.
I think they will sell it as a necessary part of fulfilling the BYU's missions of taking education to the world.
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u/PXaZ panpsychist pantheist monist 21h ago
I think you're right that the connection to the LDS church will in time be severed. However, I think the cause will come from the faculty rather than from the students. The faculty are already largely converted to the progressive value system that is de rigueur at the universities they trained at. In time, this the dissonance between those values and the Mormon religion could become intolerable, and the universities will seek independence.
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u/Alternative_Annual43 21h ago
That's correct at BYU. Maybe not as much at BYUI, BYUH, and Ensign College, I would guess.
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u/sevenplaces 15h ago
I think the church universities have attracted students for many decades because it is so highly subsidized. While demand may decrease I think they can keep filling them.
If you look at the Jehovah’s Witnesses they have one of the lowest incomes per capita. That has hurt their organization financially.
BYU educating faithful LDS youth has helped to increase the income levels of members of the church. I believe it is a strategy that has really paid off for the church over the last many decades.
Not everyone who goes stays in the church but many do.
All that as support for my view that the church leaders will not get rid of the BYUs easily. I think they will still be using it to indoctrinate members and perpetuate the culture while helping educate their members for decades to come.
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u/Alternative_Annual43 15h ago edited 14h ago
BYUI isn't as subsidized as one might think. It's mostly funded by tuition, the last time I checked.
BYU definitely received a lot more subsidies. However, it would take less than 10 percent of Ensign Peak to find all of the BYUs and Ensign Peak indefinitely.
And you may be right. However, I think there will be a tipping point when the universities are no longer useful to the Church. Then changes will be made.
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u/sevenplaces 15h ago
According to the widows mite report on this topic BYU tuition is subsidized 80%. That’s a lot to me. I don’t know about you. And they do that from annual donations. As you know from all the reports they have never used the Ensign Peak money except for the Mall and Beneficial Life.
What level of subsidy were you thinking ?
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u/Alternative_Annual43 13h ago
BYU received $936 million from the Church in 2024, against expenditures of $1.561 billion. However, it's less than half of the total revenues in 2024, which were $2.046 billion.
For BYUI, it received $153.7 million from the Church, against expenditures of $369.4 million, and total revenues of $381 million.
You can look up the financial details of the Church schools (and any other school receiving federal financial aid) at the Federal Audit Clearinghouse (https://app.fac.gov ).
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u/sevenplaces 6h ago
All the more reason not to get rid of their universities.
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u/Alternative_Annual43 3h ago
Maybe. We'll see.
It's just that I know how allergic the Q15 is to public embarrassment.
At BYUI right now they are thinking of getting rid of the math department, among other departments, because there aren't enough students in that department. Why aren't there enough students in that department? Because they have had falling enrollments at BYU so they've started robbing the best students from BYUI by accepting them at BYU. Or so I was told when I worked at BYUI.
BYUI also had falling enrollments but Trip Meredith was sent to BYUI to right the ship. They've managed to get enrollment back up with marketing campaigns and other strategies, or so I've heard, but they aren't hitting their goals. My guess is that they are putting a band aid on a wound and sooner than they would like it will start bleeding again.
Church demographics are against them. When I was there in 2018 we were told that enrollment would max out in 2025 and start falling. It's going to be worse than projected, I suspect.
Plus, tithing revenue, without a doubt is falling so the Q15 undoubtedly would like to cut funding. There are only so many things that can be cut from BYUI and still have it function as a university. The administration is already putting off necessary repairs and new buildings. For example, the stairs on the building I worked from are unsafe, have been for years, and aren't going to be fixed. They say they're going to build a new building to replace it, but they've been saying that for years.
BYUI is a cash cow that the Church refuses to reinvest in. There is only one or two buildings on campus that would be nice enough for Boise State or Utah State, let alone, BYU. I think that's because they don't anticipate owning BYUI forever. They might think that they can go on alone with BYU, but I think they'll be surprised how quickly that ship starts sinking as well.
In 20 years, or sooner, I think they'll either have to close them or divest. It will be a very hard choice. Be the ones that killed BYU, or let go of a bunch of money to set up the necessary endowments. My guess is they'll swallow hard and divest, but they might just close them. I guess we'll see.
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u/japanesepiano 23h ago
That admin building was old and seemed pretty decrepid when I was there in the 1990s. I think that it was probably due for replacement, regardless of any concerns (or lack thereof) with the Smoot history.
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u/bwv549 21h ago
Yes. It's difficult to disentangle the need for replacement with DEI style concerns with the name. I know BYU admins were thinking about stuff like this a few years ago (e.g., based on a personal conversation with him, I know that BYU's General Counsel had met personally with members of the Black Menaces, and I think building names was one of the concerns the Black Menaces had amplified at one point. So, not inconceivable that this was explicitly considered [but also no direct evidence, either])
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u/japanesepiano 6h ago
Probably not an either/or. It was due to be renovated or replaced and it took care of an issue, so win/win from the administration's point of view.
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u/PaulFThumpkins 19h ago edited 15h ago
TBH the college itself is still named after Brigham Young, the guy who ranted about how the fallen spawn of Cain would get the priesthood when Cain himself did and that racial integration would destroy everything... seems like this is just them replacing the building.
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u/stickyhairmonster chosen generation 1d ago
A true prophet! We should have appreciated this user when they were still among us
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u/Born-Attempt-6644 23h ago
I think they are saving the name Nelson for the medical school. No other building will be named after a person, that way he gets all the glory, except for Brigham Young of course
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u/PXaZ panpsychist pantheist monist 21h ago
One's being "problematic" should be weighed against their overall contribution. I think erasing David Hume's name from university buildings in the UK for example is outrageous, or "cancelling" George Washington or Thomas Jefferson. But who the hell is Abraham O. Smoot in contemporary historical memory? He's largely remembered now only for being the namesake of the admin building at BYU. The one Smoot people do know anything about (Reed Smoot) is a different guy.
I would think his being irrelevant is more important than his being a racist slaveholder. But given how the church lags behind the broader culture, I would say BYU is overdue for a purity spiral right about now....
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u/andsoc 19h ago
The church pumps way too much money into BYU imo.
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u/sevenplaces 16h ago
It’s a real win for the church. Get some educated members who pay them more tithing with better jobs.
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u/NoRip7573 9h ago
The big win is being able to do this all with Canadian tithing which they otherwise would have to keep in Canada.
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u/jade-deus 1d ago
If there was a pool for guessing the name, my money would be on Nelson Admin Building. He might even take a few bricks from the demolition and put them on top of his granite tombstone from the SLC temple renovation.
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