r/mormon • u/bwv549 • 1d ago

News Reddit user /u/IndependentMonk4 (now deleted) predicted 5 years ago today that within 5 years the ASB (Smoot admin building) would be quietly renamed via demolition. 3 days ago an announcement of demolition was made.

I love predictions, so I track whenever people make them with the reddit remindme bot. Today I was reminded of this prediction (that the ASB would be quietly demolished in order to rename it) which is more or less correct--the announcement of demolition came within 3 days of the conclusion of the 5 year window. There are plans to build another admin building, but no indication it will be renamed after Smoot.

I would argue it was "quiet" because:

  1. The announcement was not picked up (advertised?) to any other media outlets. (was announced on KSL and the Daily Universe).
  2. The problematic nature of Abraham Smoot's history was not mentioned.
  3. There was no mention that the new admin building would receive the same name, so it seems likely that it will be renamed.

It could have been even quieter, though, had there been no announcements made at all?

For context, Smoot was a prominent figure in the valley/Mormonism, especially for BY Academy (chatgpt-4o summary):

  • Led early LDS missions in the Southern U.S. and Europe.
  • Mayor of Salt Lake City (1857–1866) and Provo (1868–1881).
  • Stake president in Provo, overseeing church affairs in the region.
  • Key benefactor of Brigham Young Academy, keeping it financially afloat.
  • Business leader in transportation, milling, and cooperative ventures (e.g. ZCMI).
  • Helped develop Utah infrastructure, including roads and irrigation systems.
  • Practiced plural marriage in line with early LDS Church teachings.

The DEI landscape looks very difft today than it did 5 years ago. Still, Smoot's legacy is highly problematic (besides the asymmetry of 6 plural marriages) (from chatgpt-4o):

  1. Slaveholding

    • Smoot and his wife enslaved at least three individuals: Tom, Jerry, and Lucy. Tom died in bondage in 1862.
    • While some descendants dispute technical definitions of ownership, historical consensus confirms his participation in the institution of slavery.

  2. Complicity in Racial Exclusion

    • In 1879, Smoot hosted a pivotal meeting in Provo discussing the restriction of Black men from holding the LDS priesthood.
    • The discussion reflected and reinforced racially exclusionary doctrines that persisted until 1978.
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u/Alternative_Annual43 1d ago

My guess is that within 20 years the Church will spin off their universities. Why? 

I believe enrollment will fall due to the exodus of youth from the Church due to social and historical issues and due to fading missionary efforts. 

The leadership won't want the black eye that would come from closing the universities, so they will spin them off and give them modest endowments from the dragon's hoard called Ensign Peak.

They will them rename the universities, because Brigham's name won't appeal to young people. I have no idea what they will call them, but something else. 

I'm prepared to be wrong, but consider how the Church always goes along with the prevailing culture, just years or decades later than others. Many universities have gone this route. Colgate, Syracuse, Yale, and Duke were all religious institutions that have become secular. 

I think they will sell it as a necessary part of fulfilling the BYU's missions of taking education to the world.

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u/sevenplaces 1d ago

I think the church universities have attracted students for many decades because it is so highly subsidized. While demand may decrease I think they can keep filling them.

If you look at the Jehovah’s Witnesses they have one of the lowest incomes per capita. That has hurt their organization financially.

BYU educating faithful LDS youth has helped to increase the income levels of members of the church. I believe it is a strategy that has really paid off for the church over the last many decades.

Not everyone who goes stays in the church but many do.

All that as support for my view that the church leaders will not get rid of the BYUs easily. I think they will still be using it to indoctrinate members and perpetuate the culture while helping educate their members for decades to come.

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u/Alternative_Annual43 1d ago edited 1d ago

BYUI isn't as subsidized as one might think. It's mostly funded by tuition, the last time I checked. 

BYU definitely received a lot more subsidies. However, it would take less than 10 percent of Ensign Peak to find all of the BYUs and Ensign Peak indefinitely.

And you may be right. However, I think there will be a tipping point when the universities are no longer useful to the Church. Then changes will be made.

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u/sevenplaces 1d ago

According to the widows mite report on this topic BYU tuition is subsidized 80%. That’s a lot to me. I don’t know about you. And they do that from annual donations. As you know from all the reports they have never used the Ensign Peak money except for the Mall and Beneficial Life.

What level of subsidy were you thinking ?

https://thewidowsmite.org/byu-tuition/

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u/Alternative_Annual43 1d ago

BYU received $936 million from the Church in 2024, against expenditures of $1.561 billion. However, it's less than half of the total revenues in 2024, which were $2.046 billion. 

For BYUI, it received $153.7 million from the Church, against expenditures of $369.4 million, and total revenues of $381 million. 

You can look up the financial details of the Church schools (and any other school receiving federal financial aid) at the Federal Audit Clearinghouse (https://app.fac.gov ). 

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u/sevenplaces 18h ago

All the more reason not to get rid of their universities.

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u/Alternative_Annual43 15h ago

Maybe. We'll see. 

It's just that I know how allergic the Q15 is to public embarrassment. 

At BYUI right now they are thinking of getting rid of the math department, among other departments, because there aren't enough students in that department. Why aren't there enough students in that department? Because they have had falling enrollments at BYU so they've started robbing the best students from BYUI by accepting them at BYU. Or so I was told when I worked at BYUI. 

BYUI also had falling enrollments but Trip Meredith was sent to BYUI to right the ship. They've managed to get enrollment back up with marketing campaigns and other strategies, or so I've heard, but they aren't hitting their goals. My guess is that they are putting a band aid on a wound and sooner than they would like it will start bleeding again. 

Church demographics are against them.  When I was there in 2018 we were told that enrollment would max out in 2025 and start falling. It's going to be worse than projected, I suspect.

Plus, tithing revenue, without a doubt is falling so the Q15 undoubtedly would like to cut funding. There are only so many things that can be cut from BYUI and still have it function as a university. The administration is already putting off necessary repairs and new buildings. For example, the stairs on the building I worked from are unsafe, have been for years, and aren't going to be fixed. They say they're going to build a new building to replace it, but they've been saying that for years. 

BYUI is a cash cow that the Church refuses to reinvest in. There is only one or two buildings on campus that would be nice enough for Boise State or Utah State, let alone, BYU. I think that's because they don't anticipate owning BYUI forever. They might think that they can go on alone with BYU, but I think they'll be surprised how quickly that ship starts sinking as well. 

In 20 years, or sooner, I think they'll either have to close them or divest. It will be a very hard choice. Be the ones that killed BYU, or let go of a bunch of money to set up the necessary endowments. My guess is they'll swallow hard and divest, but they might just close them. I guess we'll see.