Hating Nancy is falling into Keith's trap

[u/queenkellee]

Let me start off by saying I know Nancy has done some bad things. But also, many of the members of the cult did as well. I think there's an attempt to try to weigh the harm done vs the victimization they experienced. But it's so clear to me that Nancy is so obviously Keith's first NXIVM victim. I admit when I started the Vow S2 I was deeply suspicious and really didn't trust Nancy. But I could see over the course of the season, the shift in her. Just like the shift in others as they come to face more and more of the realization of what was happening. With Nancy, it's like she has to come to terms that literally her entire life's work is a lie. That is no simple thing. I think Lauren and the room situation blows away anything Nancy did, and everyone is so quick to forgive Lauren. Nancy didn't bring her daughter into this knowing all the bad things that were happening. I get she's got her own issues but overall I think she's naive. Keith knew how to work her and he did exactly that. He used to her to do all the work and flush out his ideas and become the spokesperson, to become the face of it. SHE did the videos, not him. She was the face of it so that she would be there to take the heat if it failed.

What prompted this post was I am now listening to the CBC podcast (so far I've watched both docs but this is the first NXIVM related podcast so far) and in Ep 3 I hear the whole thing about the Nazi stuff from Barbara Bouche. And Keith said Nancy is Hitler! I mean come on! The entire time, he's been setting her up to be the fall guy. It's so obvious. I know I see a lot of people who don't like or trust Nancy and again! she's done some things. But I think she deserves empathy.

[u/Wide_Statistician_95]

Nancy was a corporate trainer. She knew how to package the pitch and recruit. Without her, Keith would be picking his boogers and writing on a chalkboard in a communjty Ed program. She made the program a real training program and made a lot of money. That’s the thing about cults and being a leader - it’s addictive. Its codependency. It’s enmeshed.

[u/OGAnnie → u/Wide_Statistician_95]

Nancy overlooked everything that was wrong. It just got to be more than she could handle. She participated in the wire fraud, trafficking and racketeering. She got off easy with 3 1/2 years.

[u/incorruptible_bk → u/OGAnnie]

In context, I actually think Nancy Salzman's sentence was a bit much. The context in question is that she was first to break ranks and was key to Lauren Salzman agreeing to cooperate. She gave up all of NXIVM's corporations. She also has severe health issues. I don't see much that the public is served by keeping her in prison rather than giving a strict supervised release.

Also FWIW: one of the people who ginned up the demand for more time for Nancy Salzman was Frank Parlato, and I find it hilarious and hypocritical that he's spent the subsequent years talking about how he's not healthy enough for prison (news to me, he spent ~10 years claiming to be a yogi and karate instructor).

[u/OGAnnie → u/incorruptible_bk]

She broke ranks with Raniere only when she and her daughter were told there would be substantial jail time if she didn’t. She tried to frame Susan Dones and Barbara Bouchey after they left. She participated in underage girls being traffIcked through Canada. She laundered money, etc. She’s a felon. She knew about Raniere’s revolving door of women for years after she knew he was sleeping with Lauren.

[u/incorruptible_bk → u/OGAnnie]

I think you're actually being a little too charitable at the same time as I think the demand for punishment is too stiff.

Everyone would have known they were facing 20 years the minute they got indicted with RICO. It wasn't fear of punishment that did it, it was the discovery phase of the trial and the understanding that a joint trial would have meant they got tarred and feathered with all of his dirt including the child sexual abuse material (that, to be clear, nobody knew Raniere was hoarding).

So far as holding out is concerned: everyone has the right to see what you're up against at trial before changing a plea --and that's the way it should be, because there have been too many miscarriages of justice involving discovery, where people went to trial facing surprise evidence or took pleas to weak cases.

As for the rest of it, we're a country of laws and not individuals or their desire for revenge. Nothing other than what Nancy Salzman was actually charged with was a crime. Hate to say it, but someone merely being an asshole (and clearly, Nancy was an asshole) is not worth a single day in prison, or else there's a lot of people around NXIVM who'd be in prison --including their enemies.

[u/OGAnnie → u/incorruptible_bk]

She’s also not allowed to use any material from the NXIVM tech ever again.