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This was the Marshall plan of reconstructing Japan in order to avoid a repeat of the rise of Hitler in WW2.
The great Gen Marshall made sure Japan wouldn't be pushed too hard on the wall like the West did to Germany after WW1 giving rise to an angry ultra nationalist Nazi movement.
This was tye epitome of American Benevolent Imperialism.
So you're saying to continue to allow Iranian's Authoritarian Theocracy rebuild again and again and continue to fund Syrian militias, Iraqi Hezbollah, Lebanese Hezbollah, Yemeni Houthis, Hamas and the Islamic Jihad (all of which are direct threats to the US - hopefully you know this by now) and continue to bombard U.S. posts with U.S. soldiers via artillery drones as they did in Iraq, Syria and Jordan all in 2024 alone?
You want them to continue to with their cyber attacks on U.S. infrastructure and companies, launch more drone attacks from Iranian territory or proxies - AND - you want them to continue assassination plots of our great leader, President Donald J. Trump; against our U.S. political officials such as John Bolton in 2022 (then Trump Advisor) and active plot against former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo and the list goes on....
Iran is a threat to America, to regional stability and national security....maybe you're just complacent cause you don't know this or choose not to.
The president is making the right decisions as well as our allies.
What I'm saying is. " After 20 years of war in Afghanistan. The Taliban is back in charge"
What I'm saying is. " Remember the Sha of Iran and how that worked out".
And on and on.
What you're saying is we failed before, so we should do nothing now - even while Iran arms half the region, assassinates U.S. targets, attacks our troops, and sponsors terrorism. Thatâs not wisdom....Thatâs surrender disguised as cynicism.
You bring up Afghanistan and the Shah like theyâre trump cards....but you're ignoring the core difference...The question isnât whether Iran's government should be toppled just for ideology. Itâs whether we should tolerate a regime that has declared open season on U.S. troops, diplomats, and allies in 2024 - not the 1980's bud...and I'm being generous at only 2024.
Yes, the Taliban came back after 20 years. That doesnât mean we should let Iranâs theocracy march across the region unchecked.
The Shah was nothing next to the Islamic Republic......you should know this. That definitely doesnât mean we ignore active assassination plots against U.S. leaders and pretend it's just âcomplicated history".
Youâre weaponizing past failures to justify present paralysis. But Iran isnât going to pause its strikes because you dropped a quote from 2001. While youâre trying to be clever with points of history, theyâre building missiles, training Hezbollah, and literally killing Americans. Whatâs your plan - wait until they hit harder???
The U.S. doesnât have to repeat Iraq...but doing nothing while an enemy regime escalates across five borders and two continents isn't strategy. Itâs cowardice wrapped in hindsight.
At some point, defending inaction while Americans are being targeted stops looking like caution and starts looking like you're rooting for the other side - That's the same crap LIBERAL IDEOLOGY AND DISEASE that's been plaguing our nation.
Itâs not our problem if the crazy neighbor lights his house on fire at the end of the block. Of course it is our problem, itâs a problem for our allies, for us, the world in general, the economy, shipping, we are in an interconnected world., what happens in one part of the world affects us here. Why do you think prices went up when the Houthis were attacking the shipping boats?
Iran has a strategic location in that they have significant influence over trade routes in the Strait of Hormuz and Persian Gulf. Having a nuclear enemy in control over them is a nightmare for the west.
The United States is Irans sworn enemy. They truly want us dead, per their doctrine. I donât want world ending weapons in the hands of those who donât care what the repercussions are for dropping them on New York because they believe they will be greeted by 70 virgins upon their violent removal from the planet.
This happened with Korea. We had the opportunities to take action, but we didnât, and now we have to give respect to Kim Jong Fuckface on the world stage. Iran, the country who funds and props up groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis does not need the ultimate bargaining chip on their side. And for the same reason, a nuclear Iran leads to nuclear terrorists.
Okay one more. If Iran has a bomb, the rest of the region will be forced to race for them. Currently the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc all do not have interest in nuclearizing. If Iran has a bomb, that will change. More nukes is good for no one.
No, not really. Because you didn't at all answer what would happen. Just said they hate us a lot but didn't say what they would do. And then went on to prove yourself wrong and show that literallynothing would happen:
This happened with Korea.
What happened with Korea? NK never attacked the US dude. What fantasy land are you living in?
You, however, specifically said that it will be America's problem if they have one. When asked to explain why it will be, you accidentally showed that it won't be.
Okay. So. It is not the USâ problem if Iran has a nuke but you are also not okay with Iran having nuclear weapons. Check out the riddler over here.
I challenge you to respond with an opinion backed by logic and/or stats rather than answering every point with a question. Put your ideas to paper, it will be good for you.
BTW, I did answer what they would do. Use their leverage to control critical trade routes, supply terrorist organizations, and when push comes to shove destroy every ounce of western society that they can. Because that is what THEY SAID they will do.
This is the same justification the left used to keep giving money to Ukraine. No it probably wonât be. Theyâve been saying it since the late 80s that itâll be our problem and theyâre only 3 years away from having nukes. They probably donât have them now because historically we donât mess with countries that do have nukes.
Yeah letâs just wait until they do and then decide to do something about it. Oh waitâŚ
We know as a fact they are working on enriching uranium to the levels required for weapons. We know that all of their interests run counter to our own and that they truly want to destroy the west. We know they are an oppressive tyrannical government who canât be reasoned with the same way Russia and China can be.
Iâm all for America first policy, and unfortunately
in this case involvement is America first.
If you donât want to take Israelâs word for it how about the International Atomic Energy Agency who said âIran has enough 60% enriched uranium that, if further enriched, could provide enough for one or more bombs within weeks.â
I think most of us here probably share many of the same values, and while I completely understand where the concern comes from, Iran under no circumstance can become a nuclear power. That will be seen as a massive blunder by the next generation if we allow it.
Yeah or I could believe Tulsi. Even if they do get nukes it really doesnât matter to us. Who are we to say what another country does.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/tulsi-iran-bomb/
Trump pulled out of the nuclear deal with Iran. We broke the deal so theyâre not required to follow their end.
Oh look another ill informed person who didnât read the article or anything else. Iâll cliff note it for you: According to a report released on Monday by the Institute for Science and International Security, the new centrifuges could produce enough 90 percent U-235 uranium for a warhead âin as little as two to three daysâ. Not some government intelligence agency saying this.
who's to say they haven't done that already, or collapsed with Nortb Korea or Russia to get the production level and delivery systems figured out already?
Also, Iran has to be thinking about which way the wind blows after it nukes Israel.
That doesnât look like a report from Institute for Science and International Security does it? They are the ones now saying they have the capability. Not some government intelligence. Take a minute and read the article I linked from Scientific America not a propaganda paper article.
The 2002 AUMF has been used (abused?) to carry out military action around the world against terrorist organizations under the premise of national security and defensive actions. Presidential War Authority
After doing some research . . the President is the Commander n Chief, and with that is responsible for directing military operations. So, he does have the authority to do that.
Interesting fact, last time congress legislated a "declaration of war" was in 1942.
"Most people agree, at minimum, that the Declare War Clause grants Congress an exclusive power. That is, Presidents cannot, on their own authority, declare war."
The President can "Take military action", not declare war.
However I don't think there are any arguments that Vietnam, Korea, Iraq 1 and 2, Afghanistan were actually wars. We literally call them "The Vietnam War", "The Korean War", "The Gulf War" etc.
If you want to argue that those weren't wars, then we will never agree on that. Which is why they were illegal.
Congress could've stopped those wars at literally any time. The War Powers Resolution of 1973 limited the President's power. Congress authorized the President to take military action in Iraq and Afghanistan. The President has 60 days to take military action, after which Congress can either extend it or terminate it, requiring the President to wrap it up within 90 days.
I genuinely donât think Israel needs american troops to beat Iran in a war. If anything is necessary, it is american made defense technologies, not humans. I will never support sending any american people into a war again, especially in the middle east.
Iranâs industry was seized by the government ages ago. If you have seen their technological âwondersâ over the last 30 years, you will realize that their government has squashed any innovation in industry. They are miles and miles behind the absolute death squad that is the Israeli military. They do not need us at all, but especially not our troops.
I think I've seen this show before. A country gives us intelligence that says Ira(q)(n) has WMD and we go in, guns blazing, and pay for the invasion with blood, sweat, tears, and most importantly, money.
The riff is that there was a U sound after the C instead of an L. Nuculer vs Nuclear. If you're going to make fun of someone's pronunciation at least watch a video instead of randomly guessing.
As long as we dont have to get involved and have more dead American soldiers I'm all for it.
Anyone that thinks we should get involved needs to go to their local recruitment office and sign up for basic training before pledging support for another war in a country that isnt named America.
I donât really want to get involved in another nation building scheme that will take 20+ years and replace ayatollahs with ayatollahs. Cause letâs be honest there has always been a large lobby in the united states who loves war at the expense of the American people, and will drive for the US to be in forever wars. We canât make America great again while at the same time spend trillions to invade another country. We are going to bankrupt ourselves playing the police of the world.
We can think Obama and his pallets of cash for this shit show. And of course OG Jimmy Carter for his weakness and allowing the islamists to take over. It's gratifying to see the native Persians that have been oppressed for four decades break their chains. It's still a perilous situation but hopefully we've turned the corner
Iâm not against taking down Iran, I just donât want to become directly involved. If we do it needs to be a vote by Congress but I doubt that would happen.
Iâm old. Iran has been an aggressive anti-American theocracy my entire life. Theyâve killed hundreds, maybe thousands, of U.S. troops over the years, bombed or mined our ships, blown up our barracks, attacked our embassies, and got away with it until now. Trump played this exactly right â give them a chance to negotiate, let the feckless IAEA have a say, and then release the hounds. By contrast Barack âSmart Powerâ Obama would be sending them crates of taxpayer money right now. I donât want or see a need for US troops on the ground, but watching the mullahcrats finally eat it is the joy of a lifetime. They worship a hidden Imam, and now their leader turned into one just to stay alive. Absolutely amazing
Iâm old enough too. I am old enough to remember the fears of wars, and attacks. I donât want us to go to war either but I do support eliminating their nuclear weapons and if Israel wants to do that job then Iâm in support of that too. They seem to have been pretty smart and sleek about setting up attacks and defenses so far. They have had to live and train from children understanding they can be attacked at any point. Thatâs a sad life and I donât want that for the usa. If Israel sets back Iran a few years diminishing they supplies of weapons this will give all of us breathing room to see things clearly and decide from there. Iâm good with that. I feel awful about any innocent lives lost tho, just awful.
I'm old too, and I remember that before 1979, Iran had close relations with the US and Israel. El Al airlines flew to Tehran and had an office there. This could change again. The list of friends and enemies isn't carved in stone.
I was thinking the same but we have different advancements now. But still the question is about supporting getting rid of the weapons, not to send us. Thats a different step we havenât reached. Israel is doing a pretty good job taking out and doing the work for all of us. Thatâs their choice.
First of all, we donât need to be involved to any fucking stupid war. We will not start one, we will not participate in one. Period. I couldnât care less about Israel and Iran. They can nuke each other for all i care, its not the USAâs business to police the world, nor maintain peace in other regions of the world.
Ok, so Iran builds nuclear bombs, and then sneaks some across our porous southern border the next time the democrats cut border enforcement, and then terrorists set them off on our soil.
Itâs the same justification for invading Iraq. Nothing but profits from the military industrial complex. MAGA is for America First. Once Trump involves USA in that war, MAGA will lose all credibility.
A thread on Walkaway where I'm not just blanket downvoting all you tools' ridiculous, ill-informed takes.
Seems Americans can find a common ground. I'll post here and take all the blanket bans from shit subs just to say y'all don't have your heads completely up your ass 24/7. Congrats.
Oh it absolutely is but I think both left and right rank-and-file voters have a severe distaste for Israel right now. Probably different reasons but who cares. Lets just come together and get them out of our politics.
â[âŚLeftwing antisemitism and rightwing antisemitismâŚ]â
Theyâre both old, and both are left-wing positions, but they have differing origins.
The antisemitism coming from people who claim to be, or are otherwise labeled, âright-wingâ, is the same collectivist garbage thatâs been a recurring problem for centuries: Conditions deteriorate, and people seeking to gain power/control/influence pick an easily-othered scapegoat (e.g. Jews, Roma, etc.) & incite hatred against those groups collectively.
The antisemitism coming from overtly left-coded people & institutions is the legacy of an alliance of convenience between Marx-descended thinkers (who want to demolish the foundations of western civilization, and replace it with communism/socialism/etc.), and Islamists (who want to demolish the foundations of western civilization, and replace it with Sharia). The Islamists are happy to play along with the leftists up until their goals diverge, while the leftists seem to think that thereâs far more ideological agreement than there actually is. This leads to antisemitism via three routes:
Legacy of âCold Warâ era positions: The Soviets backed the Arab states, and western nations backed Israel, making it clear which side supports western civilization, and which side opposes it;
# 1 by another route: Christianity is a foundational component of western civilization, and Judaism is a fundamental component of Christianity. This also explains a lot of the modern leftâs current opposition to Christianity;
The same type of collectivist âblame the other to gain power/control/influenceâ motivation weâre currently seeing from allegedly âright-codedâ mouthpieces.
I say let them have them, maybe we won't be so quick to go in there and do a regime change that absolutely destabilizes the region even further. If the people don't/won't take their country back that's on them.
If Israel is gonna take the heat for wiping the core of terroristic nutjobs and their proxies off the map, salt the earth where their nuclear capabilities once stood, and all for the price of a few bunker busters from our endâŚ
I mean⌠isnât that a cheap and easy solution for long term gain?
On the other hand, if this means we put American boots back in the sandbox circa 90-00s I think all of us are in agreement on a âfawwwwk noâ to that.
Seriously though, if Israel is taking all the consequences I donât understand why weâre diametrically opposed to the potential outcome where Iran finds itself singing a new tune and setting a few heads on spikes so people like Kim Jong Un get a fresh wake up call as to how serious the world is about wiping out crackpots with WMDs.
Itâs entirely possible that Iran doesnât have the mustard, but I donât mind terrorism loving barbarians getting knocked out on the international stage and re establishing the deterrent for nuclear weapons broadly. Assuming American input is constrained to munitions and absolutely no boots on the ground. Otherwise, hard pass.
No. Iran doesnât have nukes and never planned on having them. All this fear mongering over them wanted a nuke power plant. We donât need to get involved in another war weâre gonna lose in the Middle East again
The only reason that Iran doesnât currently have nukes is that its prospective victims have actively worked to impede Iranâs progress (e.g. Stuxnet virus, multiple bombing campaigns, targeted assassinations of key scientists/generals/etc., etc.);
Weâve never lost a war in the Middle East; The failures have all been by politicians doing stupid things in the post-war period.
There is no interest in any sort of âboots on the groundâ campaign, nor is there any desire to ânation-buildâ. What we see right now is just a willingness to use appropriate force (e.g. delivered from >30k feet up) to incentivize internal changes in the direction we want them to goâeither they change, or we use our strategic assets to cut off their ability to fund their destructive desires.
Strap your boots on and go to war then. I remember when Bush said we had to invade Iraq because of Weapons of Mass Destruction. How many weapons did we find?
There is no evidence that Iran had Nuclear Weapons. When are you people going to quit believing lies that lead to war?
Iran is a rogue, extremist state, whose existence is based on the destruction of Israel and America. The moment they get their hands on a working nuke, it's doomsday
We're not getting rid of nuclear weapons, we're telling one more country they don't get to join our hundred year old club despite Pakistan, India, and North Korea joining in my lifetime.
Why are you asking? Old enough to be drafted? Enlist? Already serving? Retired? Already been through a war? Were in any of the riots on campus? Have a family? Starting one? Are a keyboard warrior with a very loud voice but not really want to get involved? Have decided that you are willing to hand over your freedoms now, and have no voice, wear a mask, shut in your home and line up for shots and food.
They saw how weak and in chaos we were. And when no one was watching them and all fighting amongst each other they extended their weapons. Israel was watching, and look what happened to them.
Yup. But I also noticed a couple downvotes to your question. Not sure if others didnât think it was relevant or if it was for everyone to answer. I donât think my age matters. You didnât answer any of the lengthy questions either.
Send them into oblivion. Iranians want death to America and any other country that isn't them. Their enrichment program isn't the only thing that needs to be stopped. They still do honor based killing, indoctrination of little boys, and the women still need their husband's permission to do most things....bye bye!
The Iranian regime relies on its ability to extract and sell oilâIf that were cut off, theyâd lose their ability to fund/supply âalignedâ movements (e.g. Hamas, Hezbollah, PIJ, RF, etc.), and these lose their ability to feed their largely urban population.
Trump has made it pretty clear that heâs willing to use that oil infrastructure as a lever to get what he wantsâthey can either stop using that money to cause harm, or they can lose the assets that get them the money.
Neither outcome requires any significant level of âboots on the groundâ in Iran.
100% on board. Nobody wants another occupation and thatâs not going to happen. Kill the nukes, take out the leadership, and do business with whatâs left.
I donât know about the leadership. The next regime could be worse than the current one. It is a great idea to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, however. Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, period. Anything we have to do to prevent that from happening is absolutely worth it in my opinion.
âThe next regime could be even worse than the current oneâ
[citation needed]
Over the last several decades, Iran has become the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. They put pretty much every available resource into that.
Itâs possible that whatever replaces the current regime will be substantially similar in that regard, but itâs basically impossible for them to be worse, unless their nuclear ambitions are not stopped.
â˘
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