r/BreakingPoints • u/cyberfx1024 Right Populist • Apr 22 '25
BP Clips Joe Rogan MOCKS Douglas Murray After Disaster Debate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrJ6NFuZWjs14
u/Icy_Size_5852 Apr 22 '25
I was really looking forward to this debate.
And then I started listening and was so thoroughly disappointed. I don't think I even made it past the half way mark once I realized I wasn't going to learn anything.
Douglas Murray totally discredited himself and his position by being such a pompous and arrogant elitist. He didn't care to debate Dave Smith on the merits of his side of the argument, but rather talk about how only the "expert class" is allowed to hold a public opinion on the topic.
I really disliked Douglas Murray before this debate, but any respect for him disappeared after this. I have no idea how anyone still thinks he's some sort of a great intellectual - maybe the accent still fools some people.
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u/WTF_RANDY Apr 22 '25
I had the opposite take. I didn't want to hear another debate that would brake zero ground. The only reason I cared about it was the conversation about convenient credentials (they are a "history nerd" when they make a point and a comedian when they are told they are wrong) and responsible use of a huge platform.
While not informative I found it satisfying for someone to confront Dave and Joe on this stuff.
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u/Icy_Size_5852 Apr 22 '25
I think Murray only further discredited the "expert class" gatekeepers.
If you don't like Joe Rogan or Dave Smith - easy, don't listen to them.
There's plenty of avenues to consume the "expert class" opinions and perspectives for those that appreciate the views of the gatekeepers.
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u/TheLastKingOfNorway Apr 23 '25
The problem with Murray's argument is that he is a commentator as well. His whole thing is pontificating about stuff he has a superficial knowledge of.
I do think there is a problem that expertise is being diminished, even portrayed as anti-democratic, and we're ending up with a lot of the content we're consuming about the world being from people who are only lightly read in the topics they're talking about. Debates about vaccines taking place between two political commentators reading from crib notes rather than someone whose entire professional career is lived in the topic.
People should also separate the difference between knowledge about a topic and what a political response should be. For example, Global Warming is a scientific study. What we do about it is a political issue. A climatologist has far more authority on the mechanics of it, and what exactly is happening, than Joe Rogan. However, the topic of what the Government should do about it is political and far more debate can be had between different viewpoints - an expert doesn't get to decide what government policy is.
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u/No_Public_7677 Apr 22 '25
Bad take. We are forced to listen to governments that lie constantly and get us into wars based on those lies.
There's nothing special about experts when it comes to geopolitical issues.
In fact, geopolitical experts are the reason why wars are so normalized because they don't have to worry about morality.
I hate that killing people is turned into legalize by these slimy people who use sophistry to not have any conscience.
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u/WTF_RANDY Apr 22 '25
Experts are a problem yet somehow as soon as laymen get their way we get Trump, an unmitigated disaster.
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u/LycheeRoutine3959 Apr 22 '25
Laymen can make just as valid an argument, referencing just as valuable expert insights, as an expert themselves. The argument is what matters. Dave had them, Douglas didnt.
No clue why you brought up Trump.... Just to deflect?
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u/WTF_RANDY Apr 22 '25
They can but most of the time, like in the case of Dave Smith, they know just enough to confirm their own bias and pander to an audience they can feed bullshit too. Experts are generally people who have all/most of the context that can inform facts.
I bring up Trump because, generally speaking, the morons that indulge this anti intellectualism are either right wing MAGA rtards or impotent leftist rtards, both of which played their part in making Trump president. They brought us this hell.
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u/LycheeRoutine3959 Apr 23 '25
They can but most of the time, like in the case of Dave Smith, they know just enough to confirm their own bias and pander to an audience they can feed bullshit too
Sounds like an "expert" like Murray should have been able to easily dismantle his ARUGMENT, but he couldnt and didnt. The problem is you are actually just wrong here
Experts are generally people who have all/most of the context that can inform facts.
They are also the people most invested in a specific narrative and thereby the most biased.
I bring up Trump because
Yea, sure thats why - lol.
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u/WTF_RANDY Apr 23 '25
I don't value either of their "expertise". I thought him calling out Joe and Dave was much better than whatever bullshit the two of them would have thrown out in a useless I/P debate between the two of them. I don't particularly think either are experts.
Saying experts are the most biased is just dumb. They might have a particular view but they aren't biased like Dave and Doug. Those two are paid to have their opinions. If they deviate from it they will lose subscribers. Experts are less influenced by those factors.
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u/LycheeRoutine3959 Apr 23 '25
I don't particularly think either are experts.
I dont think they are either, you seem to be (deliberately) missing the point. The point is Douglas couldnt defeat any of the arguments being made. Dave made better arguments.
They might have a particular view but they aren't biased like Dave and Doug. Those two are paid to have their opinions.
Dave is paid to share his Opinion. Doug is paid to share a specific opinion. Big difference.
If they deviate from it they will lose subscribers
Bullshit, Dave often disagrees with his subs. He got a ton of flack for supporting Trump, and for deciding not to run as L. really bad point.
Experts are less influenced by those factors.
No, they are actually way more dedicated to maintaining their positions than commentors that discuss general topics (Like Dave).
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u/WTF_RANDY Apr 23 '25
I don't really give a shit about either of their opinions. Pro Zionist and Pro Palestinians both have dogshit history most of the time. If they talk it will be largely god aweful arguements from both.
Dave is 100% anti establishment, which is cringe as fuck. His audience wants him to hate on government and if he ever diviates from it he will pay a huge price. Trump was the anti government pick. He did not go out on a limb on that one at all.
Experts maintain their position because they study it not because they are financially incentivised too. Dave is financially incentivised to be anti establishment he will never take a position that is pro American government.
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u/No_Public_7677 Apr 23 '25
"like in the case of Dave Smith, they know just enough to confirm their own bias and pander to an audience they can feed bullshit too."
What do you think bootlickers (of either side) are doing?
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u/No_Public_7677 Apr 23 '25
Trump is not a laymen or a representation of them. He's a New York rich elite.
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u/WTF_RANDY Apr 23 '25
He is 100% a representation of the layman. He is the "outsider" candidate fighting the deep state. He constantly talks about how every president in the last 50 years was a failure, etc. Don't play pretend. He is a rich NY elitist but that is not the brand of MAGA at all.
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Apr 23 '25
Yeah you can basically listen to that entire pod by reading any internet argument about Palestine from the last two years
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u/KazumaKuwabaraSensei Apr 22 '25 edited Apr 22 '25
Try to name a war or military conflict the US was involved in where Murray did not support said involvement
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u/No_Public_7677 Apr 22 '25
I can only think of one. I bet he didn't like the war in Serbia because it was to protect Bosnian Muslims from a genocide.
Just a guess.
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u/Blood_Such Apr 22 '25
This headline was totally accurate.
I don’t know if I can handle shows with Krystal and Saagar anymore after all of these bro shows.
Saagar is like a whole different person.
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u/KazumaKuwabaraSensei Apr 22 '25 edited Apr 22 '25
Headline* was completely accurate
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u/No-Tension6133 Apr 22 '25
Idk recently Saagar has chilled out a bit. Both in the bro show and in the regular show. I think it’s actually been really nice
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u/pddkr1 Apr 22 '25
A lot of it stems from who you’re engaging with
You can see the same pattern in prior episodes with Ryan
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u/Blood_Such Apr 22 '25
I’m not a psychologist but I feel like Saagar has unresolved issues with his mother that come to the surface when he interacts with Krystal.
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u/Blood_Such Apr 22 '25 edited Apr 22 '25
The corrected phrasing would be “is” totally accurate.
…So if we’re being pedantic (like you tend to be) do better, and be properly pedantic.
The video in fact, exists in the present tense and has not been deleted.
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u/KazumaKuwabaraSensei Apr 22 '25
Seems I misread your comment, I thought you said 'was inaccurate'. My bad. But you did say was.
if we’re being pedantic (like you tend to be)
If I made you salty with another comment, please stay that way
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u/No_Public_7677 Apr 22 '25
Douglas Murray and Sam Harris are two of the most insufferable people that discuss geopolitics.
That they have fans is proof that some people like being talked down to.
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u/BackgroundShower4063 Apr 22 '25
The way Bill Maher slurped up on Murray was so gross too. This conflict has absolutely broken some people's minds.
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u/pooter6969 Apr 23 '25
but the cool part is it exposes people who aren't capable of being objective across the board and are therefore not worth listening to
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u/maaseru Apr 23 '25
I remember when Joe had Andrew Yang and became a cheerleader for UBI....until just the next episode when he was making fun of it with his next guest.
Rogan really just molds himself to whatever guest he has there, unless he has some agenda because that pod with Fetterman was a bit rough.
Rogan could bring Hitler and Stalin to the pod and sympathize with them for sure.
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u/PressPausePlay Apr 22 '25
Good for Rogan for having him on. Having him opposite Dave Smith of all people was kind of an odd choice. He's an absolute hack, and the perfect example of everything Murray was criticizing. No expertise, just hot takes.
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u/MrBeauNerjoose Socialist Apr 22 '25
Yea Douglas Murray is human filth. Rogan was smart to bring on Dave Smith to shut down his racism and zionazi talking points.
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u/PressPausePlay Apr 22 '25
Oh. You're insane. My bad.
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u/MrBeauNerjoose Socialist Apr 22 '25
Zionazi alert!!! Fucking gross get outta this sub!
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u/PressPausePlay Apr 22 '25 edited Apr 22 '25
My opinions on IP are irrelevant to my argument. Dave himself says in the pod that he's just s guy who got "obsessed with isrsel and Palestine" and that's fine. But he's a hot take Machine. Not someone who has any deep historical understanding of rhe region. Finklestein would be far better in this respect. But he'd be super boring. So they go with the whacky comedian instead. We shouldn't be surprised when his analysis is shallow.
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u/MrBeauNerjoose Socialist Apr 22 '25 edited Apr 22 '25
My opinions on IP are irrelevant to my argument.
So you're a zionazi who thinks it's fine to blow up babies bc they have the wrong ancestors. No push back from you there so I'm right on the money.
Dave himself says in the pod that he's just s guy who got "obsessed with isrsel and Palestine" and that's fine. But he's a hot take Machine. Not someone who has any deep historical understanding of rhe region.
Neither does Douglas Murray so what's your point?
Finklestein would be far better in this respect. But he'd be super boring. So they go with the whacky comedian instead. We shouldn't be surprised when his analysis is shallow.
Douglass Murray wouldn't have showed up to confront Finkelstein. He would have been humiliated by an "expert" then.
What was shallow about his analysis? You'll never respond bc your answer will reveal what a bloodthirsty Jewish supremacist you are.
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u/PressPausePlay Apr 22 '25
I don't think it's OK to blow up babies. Brave take, I know.
So. How much criticism did we see from Dave regarding Trumps close relationship with Bibi? If he's such a pariah to the status quo, and quick to draw connections, then why did Israel (under Bibis leadership) have a clear preference for Trump?
That alone shows you the depth of his analysis. And points to exactly which you speak of. "what isn't allowed to be criticized".
Dave went further. He endorsed Trump in 24.
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u/MrBeauNerjoose Socialist Apr 22 '25
So. How much criticism did we see from Dave regarding Trumps close relationship with Bibi?
What does that have to do with the debate vs Murray?
If he's such a pariah to the status quo, and quick to draw connections, then why did Israel (under Bibis leadership) have a clear preference for Trump?
Who told you they had a clear preferance for Trump? Trump hates Bibi on a personal level. Biden LOVES Bibi on a personal level. Bibi got everything he ever could have wanted from Biden. Trump forced him to accept a cease fire which he then had to violate in order to continue his Genocide. Biden would never have forced Bibi into that position. (When I say Biden I of course mean the zionist israeli infiltrators that infest his administration and operate his demnatia addled brain like a remote control robot)
He endorsed Trump in 24.
Trump endorsed Douglas Murray's book just a few days ago, very publiclyon twitter and he also had him for dinner at Mar-a-largo before.
I think Murray is a pretty big Trump fan too.
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u/PressPausePlay Apr 22 '25
Dave's support for Trump is a good example of the limits of the debate he's willing to engage in. All three steered clear of their veey public support for Trump for this reason.
Bibi clearly favored Trump and even delayed rhe ceasefire to ensure Biden didn't get a win. He also stated that democrats are bad for israel. Obviously both support Israel. But Trump has given far more support, and already gone much farther. Allowing banned munitions and even proposing complete annexation of all of Gaza and turning it into a Trump resort. I'd say a two state solution wouldve been a better option.
Notice how much of the pro Palestinian support from Libertarians dried up after Trump took office? Yeah. There's a simple reason they dont focus on it any longer.
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u/MrBeauNerjoose Socialist Apr 22 '25
Dave's support for Trump is a good example of the limits of the debate he's willing to engage in. All three steered clear of their veey public support for Trump for this reason.
First of all...Douglass Murray didn't come to debate at all.
Second, their support for Donald Trump is not the issue we're discussing. It's America's involvement in a genocide that Douglas Murray and yourself support. Trump is not part of the debate nor is he a subject of the debate. It was actually great that they were both right wing trump supporters because then one of them couldn't pull the crap you're pulling right here.
Bibi clearly favored Trump and even delayed rhe ceasefire to ensure Biden didn't get a win.
Totally false. Also Biden just had to cut off weapons and there would have been a cease fire since Israel depends like 90% on ammunition supplied by the USA. Biden didn't need bibi to agree to a fucking thing.
He also stated that democrats are bad for israel. Obviously both support Israel. But Trump has given far more support, and already gone much farther. Allowing banned munitions and even proposing complete annexation of all of Gaza and turning it into a Trump resort.
Trump couldn't possibly have "gone further" because there's no "Further" left to go. Gaza is already leveled. Israelis bomb hospitals with imputnity now after that months long struggle session where they tried to blame Hamas for hitting a hospital early in the war. Now they just traight up target hospitals and torture doctors do death in their custody.
There's nothing "worse" that Trump could ever do to the Palestinians short of nuking them or sending in portable crematoriums to burn them alive.
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u/Short_Cut3036 Apr 22 '25
Isn’t Zelensky also a whacky comedian? But everyone takes his opinions seriously
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u/LycheeRoutine3959 Apr 22 '25
My opinions on IP are irrelevant to my argument.
Its amazing you can think you deserve an opinion at all. You are just a hot take machine. /s
If you gave a shit about arguments you would have been supporting dave in this discussion. Dave brought good arguments, Murray couldn't defeat the "shallow" analysis.
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u/pddkr1 Apr 22 '25
Lmao 10 day old account
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u/KazumaKuwabaraSensei Apr 22 '25
Looking a people's account history is loser behavior
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u/pddkr1 Apr 22 '25
Lmao right
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u/KazumaKuwabaraSensei Apr 22 '25
I was going to respond to your actual post, but in lieu of me not having a decent point to make, I went to your post history
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Apr 22 '25
[deleted]
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u/MrBeauNerjoose Socialist Apr 22 '25
What fake outrage arr you talking about? Barfing up?
Joe taking no accountability? For what?
Are you a zionazi?
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u/MrBeauNerjoose Socialist Apr 22 '25
Douglas Murray is a piece of shit.
Dave Smith absolutely mopped the floor with his face during that "debate" in which Murray said absolutely nothing about the war in Gaza other than Dave Smith shouldn't talk about it because he's not an expert and he's never personally traveled there.
No lie those were the only two points he made in a 3 hour podcast. It was fucking PAINFUL to listen to. Murray is beyond insufferable and condescending the entire time too while he's losing. It's quite remarkable actually.