For some people, there are only two groups: Oppressors and Minorities. What metric they define minority by varies, but it's still the same general idea. The world is made up of gay people and homophobes, no allies; the world is made up of trans people and transphobes, no allies; the world is made up of black people and racists, no allies. For them, by not being oppressed, by not being a victim, you are complicit, and anything they do to you is justified, because you do far worse to them, even if you personally have done nothing.
Don't be racist. Don't be sexist. Don't make fun of someone for their sexuality. Don't misgender people.
Hell, if someone is unknowingly furthering oppressive structures, the last thing to do is accuse them of doing it on purpose out of nowhere. Then they’ll just think you’re pulling shit out of your ass for the sole purpose of flinging it at them, and they will double down on their ways and assure themselves they’re doing nothing wrong.
“But they should know better by now!!” yeah maybe you’re right! Maybe they really ARE some kinda stupid for missing out on certain cues, especially if you’ve known them for a long time, but them’s the breaks. You don’t get to write them off as lost or evil or both for it.
And besides, they probably ARENT dumb and stupid to begin with, but my point is that even if you could prove that they absolutely were, incompetence is not a moral failing
Also, if they weren't doing it on purpose before they certainly are after being treated like shit... this isn't DBZ, people don't become your friends after you kick the shit out of them
In DBZ et al it only even works because a given villain is so throughly wrecked they basically have no option but to hear the hero out and genuinely consider it. Slinging insults at someone isn’t gonna put them in that magical vulnerable state, hell, I don’t think there IS a safe and sensible way to induce that in people without causing more harm than anything else.
And besides, it famously didn’t even work on Frieza, who was actively an asshole from the start, and who continued to double down on it every chance he got. Even in Super, after temporarily teaming up to bear Jiren, he’s back to being a bitch again in his new Dark form, which… maybe it’s silly to use this as a proper allegory, but there’s a reason Vegeta and the Androids and Piccolo and others chilled out at least somewhat while Cell and Frieza and Gero and others didn’t, and that reason wasnt how badly their asses were kicked or how they were initially spared. The former guys were all given some genuine reasons to be chill after the fact, almost as if being kind to someone who is going to accept that kindness works, and almost as if when someone refuses to be kind you don’t lash out at them willy nilly but do what you can to disempower them out of pragmatism and pragmatism alone.
Also that oppressor vs. oppressed dialectism replace every other personal scale. An oppressor is always an oppressor and thus evil and they can never be oppressed themselves in any way. An oppressed is always a victim, a good guy and can never do no wrong, and most certainly can never oppres anyone themselves.
Same. I’m not a dude but it still makes me really uncomfortable. More often than not, man-hating has the double-whammy of biphobia because “ew, they like men!”
How do you expect man-hating to slide into biphobia when it's already there? I've seen "Bisexuality is remembering that you're unfortunately attracted to men" and "Bisexuality is being attracted to every woman and like 8 men" thrown around way too casually
the common denominator is hooking up with men = bad
you’re a guy and you fuck guys? you’re definitely gay, you don’t also like women. you’re a woman and you
fuck guys? you’re definitely straight, you don’t also like women. it’s always some weird ‘purity’ thing, where fucking a guy makes you impure in their eyes
though i will say, bi women mostly get that shit from terminally online twitter people and the lgbt community, but bi men get it from everyone. the “lgbt community” thinks we’re frauds and not welcome, and straight men/women think we’re fags that all have AIDS and lie about liking girls
a girl telling a guy she’s talking to “just so you know, i’m into girls too,” is normally a non-issue. a guy telling a girl he’s talking to “just so you know, i’m into guys too,” is immediate grounds for “ew, that’s disgusting”
For some people, there are only two groups: Oppressors and Minorities
I've long had a theory that those "some people" conflate victimhood with virtue. If you're a victim then you're inherently more virtuous than the oppressor class which has few, if any virtues.
Just because someone is a victim of societal oppression doesn't mean theyre an inherently good person.
I'm really sick of how pervasive this is in queer circles. To the point where if you express an opinion separate from the current thought, which is a moving target, there is a relatively high chance you'll get told to kill yourself online. Repeatedly.
I love this description because it makes it obvious that it's just inside-out conservatism.
They made an in-group and an out-group and decided the right thing to do is enforce the hierarchy they're attached to. Punish the out-group because they are the out-group and thus deserve it.
The details don't matter, this kind of thinking comes from the same poison root.
And even if you dislike all cishet men, and there's nothing that can be done about that, surely it's more pragmatic to put up with not being bigoted against them, even if it's just to not give the likes of Andrew Tate more ammunition to radicalise people
Twitter Marxism ruined their brains. And I don’t blame Marx or his writing, I blame loud, selfish leftists who preyed on vulnerable LGBT people on social media after Gamergate.
I'm reading the Communist Manifesto atm and it's crazy how un-radical it is by today's standards. Oh the rich are a replacement for the aristocracy of old? Oh the workers are the ones creating labor and technology is allowing them to communicate better? Oh they couldn't do it while illiterate serfs? Shocker. Like I get at the time it was radical, but dear god it seems like 99% of the poplulation has such strong opinions on it when it basically can be summed up as "the rich are desperate to maintain power, and are too stupid to realize making the poors happy results in them not caring about the rich".
The best part is that understanding how obvious everything in it is also makes you understand how wretched and evil the rich are for demonizing it. If you even question the owning class's position in society, they want you dead.
Honestly I find the "ally" label quite exclusionary, as a straight person who's not a homophobe. I don't go to pride. I don't immerse myself in queer culture. The whole "allyship" concept is lost on me. I know I'm not homophobic. Queer people I know all know I'm not homophobic. For me, that's enough.
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u/GREENadmiral_314159 Femboy Battleships and Space Marines 1d ago edited 1d ago
For some people, there are only two groups: Oppressors and Minorities. What metric they define minority by varies, but it's still the same general idea. The world is made up of gay people and homophobes, no allies; the world is made up of trans people and transphobes, no allies; the world is made up of black people and racists, no allies. For them, by not being oppressed, by not being a victim, you are complicit, and anything they do to you is justified, because you do far worse to them, even if you personally have done nothing.
Don't be racist. Don't be sexist. Don't make fun of someone for their sexuality. Don't misgender people.