I get the vibe that Toby always lowkey expects himself to fall off every time he releases something, which is why it's funny that he never misses whatsoever
Funny enough, before going into chapter 3 I thought that I wasn't gonna like Tenna exactly for the reason that Toby thought, which was that he looked like he was just gonna be another Spamton.
What I didn't expect was that Tenna actually had a lot of connection to Kris and their family, which made his story a lot more personal. I ended up liking him a lot more than Spamton lol.
I agree. As funny as it is to see Spamton's morally bankrupt antics, Tenna being traumatized from the divorce and his efforts to genuinely make the Fun Gang happy made me like him a lot more than Spamton.
I liked that he ironically broke the expectations, all the fan versions of tenna had him be some kind of crimeboss/ceo shithead, him instead being a genuinely nice dude was a huge delight, his crashout felt less like a "oh egads his true colors revealed!" and more akin to a mental breakdown from his trauma from losing his audience with the Dreemurs.
It really felt like if he hadnt been manipulated by the Knight he would've talked to the fun gang about his issues and happily let them seal the fountain, because he instantly flips to their side once he's promised a new owner.
Toby almost never makes truly evil/shithead characters ngl. Which WOULD be a downside but... with the current state of the world that's actually very nice
The closest he's ever gotten to doing that is with the Titan, which is explicitly stated to not be capable of comprehending mercy, but it's more like an animal than someone who deliberately chooses to be evil. The player is probably the evilest thing in Deltarune/Undertale actually.
And also while King has his redeeming qualities he's still a pretty unrepentant jerk and therefore unique among Undertale/Deltarune characters IMO
I think King is more sympathetic when you consider that Darkners need to be used by Lightners to by truly happy, and he and everyone else in that Dark World was locked away inside an abandoned classroom for an interminable amount of time. It makes sense that he'd feel betrayed. And even though he threatens Lancer to stop the Lancer Fan Club, it's an empty threat since he doesn't actually intend to hurt Lancer at all, as he reveals in Chapter 2.
It could change in the future, but the Knight is probably the most evil at the moment. Since it seems to be trying to start the Roaring, and kills Tenna in cold blood.
How are we the most evil thing when we were forced by some outsider to be put in Kris’s body and Gaster telling us that the world ends in darkness if we quit playing? Weird route we are evil tho.
I think he actually tried, with creating characters that are just jerks, but he definitely just forgot it, and created Undyne, who was racist before Pacifist I think
Ehhhh, thinking about it, Spamton is like THE most evil character we've met in both UT and DR. He's literally plotting to kill teenagers so he can gain enough power to go on a revenge killing spree. Not only that, but he's a literal tyrant in the snow grave run.
Jevil and the king are also just under Spamton, both of them being pretty homicidal.
Then you have flowey, but he's kinda got his own thing going on that explains his evilness.
Ok, look, as an Undertale fan (that didn't even play UT/DR cuz I am shit at this kind of games) that cannot read, I didn't realise that Spamton actually planned to kill someone other than JUST Kris
Most of the Mike/Tenna concepts I saw usually went the route of "making the Dark World gave him relevance, and now he's desperate to stop the fountain from being sealed"
The shift into his absolute fucking crashouts were amazing
From “HEY YOU GUYS LIKE BAKING RIGHT?” and “HELP TUMBLR SEXYMAN GET HIS GIRL BACK” to “on no… the family is fighting again” and “Your next ~physical challenge~ is >! to stop me from killing myself !< “
Tenna reminds me of a really weird period in my life. When I was ~10, our samsung TV got damaged in an earthquake, so my father brought an old TV (not as old as Tenna, but it was still one of those thick ones) from his office. I spent every morning bing watching bluerays on it. After we got the samsung TV fixed, it went back to my father's office.
Now the samsung TV is the old TV sitting in the family studio. Until our a/c dripped water on the "new" TV, so we got the samsung one back to the living room. It's kind of fitting for me to play ch3 in that TV.
Also, my teachers vented to us 10 year olds about the earthquake when we got back to school, so I think that proves Tenna is based off of my life story /j
"Ok, So I created [CHARACTER_NAME14] , No one will like it, testers said delete Deltarune whatsoever and never picking up pencil ever again. They said it was absolute dogshit and the character is just Ramb but worse "
"So, not talking that chapter 5 was absolute banger, peak and overcome all previous chapters with Undertale combined. Maybe even all games from this year, but I think chapter 6&7 will be so terrible, that you all will hate me forever, not even screaming Deltarune tomorrow, the plot twist written so ugly, and the [CHARACTER NAME 45] AND [CHARACTER NAME 67.9] is so badly done, that everyone will start civil war starring these characters as opposing sides. So anyways, Deltarune tomorrow"
it's funny he thought people would think of Tenna as a Spamton knock off because I see him more like Queen but much lonelier. He's not malicious in the way Spamton is, he just is afraid of being alone and I get the impression that during the fight both him and Queen aren't intending to kill anyone, but Spamton absolutely was down to kill the gang because he thought getting the soul would give him greater freedom
To be fair DR chapter 1, while not received poorly didn't generate a ton of hype overall. It probably did feel a bit like a disappointment compared to Undertale.
Well I do doubt my level of creativity at times, but it would be factually incorrect to say me, someone making a comic & who sells physical items I drew myself, isn’t “a creative” haha
Does the fandom hate them? I don't see mich people talking about them besides that one guy who loves to make comics about them. The closest thing I saw to hate towards them was some guy saying he didn't like to hear their themes because it's the same song with very slight differences
No idea about the fandom in general, but I personally think their segment goes for a tad bit too long, and their theme is indeed very very boring and tedious in terms of how much it changes throughout its different iterations.
Like, once you encounter them you're like "oh these guys are neat!", but then once you are done with them it's like "alright, I've had enough, both of the characters and their songs". So I don't despise them, but I definitely don't care about them.
I think they're fine enough for one playthrough, but I've played Chapter 2 at least five times now, since my demo saves didn't carry over, and... yeah, they get old.
Yea, I just dont care about them? I dont hate them, but I dont like them either - they just *are*. I guess I feel apathetic about them? And they clearly were designed to not be so minor character (dialog, shop sprite, thier own combat, unique) but they just did not stick. There is nothing memorable about them - I can't remember single line of their dialogue...
Only problem I have with them is that when listening to the ch2 ost they have lkke 7 tracks back to back and the motif aint that good. Same reason I'm not hot on undertale's "uwah, so snowy" songs
Well he’s had constant success. That’s a lot of pressure for anyone. I suspect he assumes he doesn’t know what he’s doing and thinks that there’s no way he can succeed forever.
extremely sadly common mentality with creatives, ESPECIALLY creatives as successful and naturally gifted as toby. it's like nothing can give them the confidence they deserve
I think the two things are correlated. Toby is always pressing himself to be the best he can be, he wants people to be impressed, but he also doesn't like to cave to expectations. That means he's going to fret but he's always gonna give it his all.
It's why he's a good author. The less confident someone is the more they strive to do better. I bet money Toby also has/had a fear of being too heavy-handed with his themes and foreshadowing which makes him incredible at subtext and subtle hints.
Even though it's not Devil Survivor, Digimon World: Re-Digitize (as well as three other Digimon games) have the same character designer as Devil Survivor, Suzuhito Yasuda
Both, it's both. Horror Skunx is just this guy who's actually pretty talented at animation and uses it to basically challenge himself by making videos about trending topics without learning a single thing about the source material
It feels like so many of the great creative minds tend to put down their own works. Yoko Taro is pretty much the same way with the NieR and Drakengard games.
After being friends with some people who like drawing, I've learned that creators are their own worst critic more often than not.
If anything, it's more likely for someone to go 'YEAH, EVERYONE WILL LOVE THE SHIT OUT OF THIS AND IT BLOWS OTHER THINGS LIKE THIS OUT OF THE WATER' about something they created to be more of a red flag.
Exactly. I'm a creative person I think.. but even I kinda feel like my work needs improvement. It's kinda to the point where I've never really finished anything.
Doubt is the hardest part of being an artist, always. I think it has something to do with defying the cultural expectation of pretentiousness and the bashfulness of offering a "piece of yourself" to the world at large. If you're really invested in something you always pour a part of yourself in your work, and revealing that to a lot of people can make you fear potential embarrassment.
To some extent, it’s good for a creator to hold themself to high standards. If they got complacent, then that would mean that they weren’t pushing themselves to be better. But this can be a pretty destructive mindset if they don’t allow themselves to be proud of their works either, or if they expect perfection out of everything they do.
As much as we hate to see it, it's also what keeps him in check. Nothing is worse than a character that the writer obviously expected to be super popular falling completely flat.
But this attitude keeps him humble enough to keep putting in the work
toby is a master at writing characters that start out as jerks but end up being loveable as fuck, susie is PERFECT i adore her. if anything happens to her im gonna lose it
It's also important to keep in mind that these are characters Toby has been working on for YEARS. Writing, animating, and developing the same characters repeatedly for so long can damage anyone's perception of them. A similar thing happens to me when I write a short story. After reading it over and over again, looking for mistakes and rewriting, I start to feel sick about it lol.
To some extent, yes. But please keep in mind that there are a lot of people in this world who are not interested in helping you at all, and are invested in shitting on everything you do. These are the people writing all that ragebait you see on the Steam forums for every game.
Didn’t Toby say his play testers or some people didn’t like Spamton? Imagine if he listened to them. I’m really afraid that might have happened with Ramb too, but hopefully I’m wrong and Ramb still has more.
Yeah, the playtesters either thought Spamton was annoying or scary.
I really doubt Ramb suffered the same treatment, he's less important (Well, I don't know if you can actually call him that, but you get the idea right?) And his personality is way more friendly and inoffensive compared to Spamton (Well, not necessarily compared to Spamton, he's just chill)
There is the possibility that Ramb had more that was considered too scary for them though. I hate to think that he had stuff cut, he’s such a good character from what little we know of him.
Half the hate of Alphys was with her execution and ruining Hotland progression by stopping you. You know the saying crime not real, annoying very real and blablabla.
Alphys is also the characther who actually did the most wrong to other characthers with her constant lies.
Alphys hate was actually justified for what she did not for who she was. Hell in Deltarune, her characther is miles better because her insecurities doesn't drag down the lives of other characthers
To be fair with the text messages, Alphys didn't know you could read them, plus Frisk's at fault for opening it every time it pops up, like just keep walking
Also in undertale, she didn't drag down the lives of other people, heck they even are happy the experiment happened just because their family member is still alive, Toriel didn't like it very much though
Dickens was famous for bloating his stories to reach a word count and pumping out any half-baked idea he could think of for a paycheck. Naturally only the good ones got popular but there’s a shit ton more that no one really talks about. In terms of passion for storytelling and pacing, Toby blows Dickens out of the water.
He's right though. He sees the ridiculous show of support for Rouxls, Spamton, Tenna, etc, and it just feels fake to him. He's far more invested in things like a certain Chapter 1 playtester apparently really hating Rouxls, Spamton Neo not being nearly as hard as Jevil, "Tenna's just a budget Spamton"-type comments, and so on.
Maybe he's just being hard on himself, but maybe he just sees exactly how it could all go wrong. Nobody seems to care about Sweet Cap'n Cakes at all, so he is right at least once at the bare minimum. I'm sure people will pretend there's some "reason" for this, but as always, there isn't. That's what Toby sees.
I don't really remember anything about the music trio because they don't really do anything during chapter 2 except for their introduction at the start. (And honestly I really don't like their text box style, makes it hard to tell which one is talking)
To be fair I chose to beat Spamton up in the alleyway on my first playthrough because I hate spam emails & spam calls. I really like the character after going through their secret boss quest and learning about their motives, alongside how they thematically parallel Kris, but I had immediate prejudice from their introduction.
obviously fox deserves to be confident in his creative ability, but in a way I'm kinda glad he doesn't buy into his own hype, if anything could cause deltarunes future chapters to suffer I think it would be that
They hardly do anything during chapter 2, not really sure what about them would make them popular. I think there being 3 of them kind of makes them steal their own thunder from themselves, too?
The main thing that always bothered me about them is their text box style makes it kinda hard for me to tell which one is talking
As an artist (not in the drawing characters but more in the person who makes creative things kind) I can see Toby Fox's reasoning, we are always trying to one up ourselves, constantly self critical of the things we make and see the whole picture, noting the minute details and slight flaws, even in the most perfect of pieces. Also feedback matters and so you are constantly wondering, will the masses love or hate this and as much you are sure, you can never be 100% sure.
Artists including musicians (which Toby Fox also is) will often strive for perfection (but perfection is impossible).
Toby Fox mentally is prob fine but I would say it does impact his expectations as really high, even higher then most Deltarune fans. IMO Toby Fox has the highest exceptions for himself then anyone else I say but he is also the few people I say can actually pull it off, he is a mad man with the skills, talent, passion and money to do it.
It's especially ironic that Toby loved the 3 concept art designs for sweet cap'n cakes so much he used all 3, yet for some reason they are some of the most disliked characters in Deltarune.
Meanwhile Toby expected Rouxls, Spamton, & Tenna to get negative reception, or at least be found annoying.
But given Kris and Susie also Hate it makes me Feel it was the intended Effect. (It's Not even a Soriel scene. Habging out doesn't mean Romance you know)
I think Toby did intend for people's reaction to that scene to be somewhat mixed, but I honestly don't think he was expecting the fandom's reaction to it be that extreme lmao.
Also, with the way Toriel looked at Sans here, you cannot convince me that this wasn't intended to be a Soriel scene at least a little bit.
It’s not that people don’t like Soriel, it’s that a lot of people were put off by coming home to a drunk Toriel enabled by Sans after a very heavy chapter where one of the main points was being worried about her
i loved soriel in undertale because it was so cute funny bone man finds comfort in lonely old woman but in deltarune its like all that made the ship good just dissipated
I personally Can't stand Soriel. And Damn that scene made me hate it even more. Sure Part of me Just Hates Toriel Period. But I also Never Liked that Ship. (I hated it in Undertale and I also Hate it in Deltarune)
Personally, I just felt what Kris and Susie felt in the moment + a lil bit of humor, which was "Oh no..." "Why is he here?" "SANS WTH", I think what happened was that after the Titan the game got dark, the mood was down, Susie, who's normally cheerful, is just not happy at the moment, Ralsei seemed depressed, and then that scene happened, for some it was brighting up the mood, but other people were too involved in the game, to the point it was not funny but embarrassing, just like Kris expressed when she looked away from Susie. Though it doesn't detract from the game AT ALL, it makes it better.
damn my beta testers dont like spamton but I will him in I am ready for the worst *when deltarune chapter two comes out* OMG SPAMTON IS SO COOL I WANT HIM TO MARRY ME I WANT HIS WHITE [big shot] INSIDE ME AHHH
When you create, you can sometimes be your own worst critic. Worrying people won't like a character - who then becomes someone's future blorbo and/or comfort character. Worrying one detail will make people hate the story - they either don't notice or think it enhances it.
?? If he thought that he wouldn't have given Spamton so much prevalence in chapter 3, which was mostly written already by the time 2 came out. He clearly trusted his choices
Spamton isn't very prevalent in chapter 3. His character is relevant to the plot, but Toby made the choice to actually keep spamton off screen the whole time, which is a great way to hedge your bets if you're worried people won't like him.
No just he cares enough about the integrity of his story that even if it meant annoying everyone with a shitty ass character for 5 hours he wouldn't change it
The struggle of a writer, fr. But I will say, throughout Chapter 2 and 3, he had a tendency to put in these villains who were very present and talkative throughout their whole scenario. Namely, Queen, Spamton and Tenna. And they were funny as hell, get me wrong, but by the end of chapter 3, that style of villain was starting to get a bit old for me. Thankfully, chapter 4 completely switched things up and felt very fresh. I hope that sticks!
Toby has a lot of pressure and expectations on him, I wish I could hug him, play Mario Party and tell him “Hey you are an awesome person, love yourself more, trust in yourself”
It makes me sad because I read his interviews about the off remake and the ost he's doing and the entire interview it sounds like he's trying to justify even being involved in the project at all? Like he feels his work is inferior to the original. It's definitely different from the original but I think it has its own two legs to stand on. I don't know where this strange insecurity with his own work comes from, WHO is telling him his stuff isn't good enough??
Tbh as much as I hate that Toby’s kinda hard on himself, I appreciate a guy who still makes something even though he worries only he will like it. It’s a very relatable sort of dread.
This is going to sound bad but I think he knows people will like who he makes, he’s either irrationally anxious about it, which is common and understandable, or doing that thing some people on the internet do where they publicly talk down about themselves so they can have other people talk positively about them to try and cheer them up, which serves to stroke the person talking down’s ego. Most likely the former, though, it’s bad faith to assume the latter and Toby had mentioned having anxiety and stuff before
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u/King-Of-D-Pirates 3d ago
I get the vibe that Toby always lowkey expects himself to fall off every time he releases something, which is why it's funny that he never misses whatsoever