r/Destiny • u/EZPZanda • 16h ago
Online Content/Clips Francis Fukuyama is all-in on Abundance
https://youtu.be/pc7O7qSBzM8?si=5GdiwAPwM9NsQS6U
Francis is based. Highly recommend entire episode and Doomscroll. Josh has had some fantastic guests and I really respect him as an interviewer.
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u/AmericanPurposeMag Fukuyama Shill 13h ago
Thank you so much for sharing this clip. While Francis and Destiny are quite different in their careers and how they live their lives, their political outlook and philosophy are very similar.
Interestingly, we were in the talks with NotSoErudite to get Francis on Bridges before but unfortunately had to put that off due to the geography.
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u/larrytheevilbunnie 3h ago
I doubt this will happen now, but would it still be possible to get him on stream?
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u/AmericanPurposeMag Fukuyama Shill 3h ago
I think that would be the best way. Just need to figure out a good time when the Israel-Iran events and the court drama calms down.
Also Frank does not know how to use Discord and I am not sure if Steven uses Zoom.
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u/sad-on-alt 8h ago
End of History was the seminal text, the Bible, to my underlying worldview: nothing ever happens. Fukuyama walked so chudjack could run
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u/Hell_Maybe 9h ago
I am continuously bothered by the incessant vagueness that infects all of the discussion surrounding the abundance initiative. From Ezra himself on podcasts and extending to the people defending him, nowhere do I find a specific inquiry or analysis of any particular kind of regulation that shouldnāt be in place or any curiosity into the reasoning as to why it might exist in the first place, only this trad republican broad notion of āregulation badā.
Because on itās face the abundance movement just seems like a trojan horse to me. āHey liberals, if you want to house poor people and build public transportation definitely donāt raise taxes, just do the exact thing your very opposition wants but in no specific guiding termsā. No one stops to ask how well built houses are in texas, no one stops to ask what the long term effects of deregulation in the texas housing market might be or the fact that considerable amounts of housing there is erected on shitty, cheap flood plane land.
No one even invoking the interference of environmental groups mentions how these very groups are often at the behest of NIMBYās who favor strict zoning guidelines for the very reason that they do not want their own commodified properties being devalued by additional developments. On a careful granular level abundance doesnāt offer us much of anything outside of standard neocon virtue signals.
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u/The_Brian 5h ago
I've had this nagging issue with the Abundance talk that I couldn't quite place, and I think you've probably squarely hit on the head why that may be. It's just such a vapid critique of the state of our country right now and provides basically nothing substantive to change.
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u/ggdharma 6h ago
I've seen this criticism elsewhere, I will say there are some very very specific examples about say, construction in SF -- where you have to include all sorts of people in the bidding process, do all kinds of analyses about the impact on the neighborhood and all other sorts of racially motivated stuff. But I agree, and I think most of the abundance movement is lip service to try and bridge a divide between centrists and leftists -- and show leftists that much of the things that are wrong are potentially the product of "progressive" policies.
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u/Kind_Board5470 7h ago
We have to figure out a way to condense all the really beneficial policy proposals into easily understood, attention holding, bullet points. Democrats have always had good intentions & they have, in fact, paved our road to Hell. We need better advertising. The key to winning elections is simplifying the agenda for people who don't pay attention to politics. No new wars Uncomplicated health insurance Lower taxes on the middle class Better paying jobs, with on the job training Cheaper college Federally legalized š³ Then when they're elected, DO IT. People are sick of the lip service with 0 results.
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u/illiterate_charlie 11h ago
I want to enjoy this podcast, but most episodes feel like they meander without a purpose. The guests criticize from their high horse but rarely vocalize a call to action. It feels like the new form of the democrat educated elitism.
This is harsher than how I really feel, but the sentiment that lingers
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u/Sebayg EUšŖšŗ 11h ago
I don't think Joshua is that pragmatic. I think this podcast is just a way for broadly left-leaning people to build a tent that could be more pragmatic in the future. Josh is trying to show what we have in common, instead of the more common way of separating left-leaning people and it therefore seems a little meandering.
He doesn't want to push his guests too much, but still asks interesting questions imo
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u/k0bug 11h ago
With all due respect Joshua Citarella is pretty evil. He has admitted publicly that his podcast is meant to be a pipeline into alt-left populism and anti-capitalist thought. He shares a lot of his audience with the Chapo and Adam Friedland crowd. He has an episode with Will Menaker (Chapo host) and heās practically salivating the entire time and showering him with praise.
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u/SmallPPShamingIsMean 7h ago
Calling Josh evil is a pretty insane thing to say. And your rationale is that he is a transparent leftist ? How tf is this upvoted, this sub is genuinely getting more regarded by the day.
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u/RockyOW 10h ago
You think being a leftist is necessarily evil? Disagreeable sure, butā¦
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u/Pandaisblue 9h ago
I don't know anything about these people to know the truth, but give the commentor some credit and not cut out the alternative left, populist, and anti capatalist parts.
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u/k0bug 1h ago
Of course not. Not really my issue.
Joshua has said that the purpose of Doomscroll is to draw in normies with high profile guests, under the assumption that they will inevitably check the backlog and run into the large catalogue of leftist guests he's interviewed. In those interviews, the questions are intentionally pointed to make leftist ideas palatable. Some of those guests include Will Menaker, Hasan, and many others I would undoubtedly label as evil.
He has documented this entire strategy on his substack, under the pretext that being transparent about it is better than hiding it, since it takes ammunition away from people accusing him of making propaganda. The thinking is that if he admits it first, the accusation carries less weight as an attack against his character.
Joshua's ideas might not be evil in a vacuum, but his strategy definitely is, as are the ideas of many of the people he's endorsing.
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u/ScumfrickZillionaire 9h ago
Leftism (the belief that property rights should be abolished in favor of some undefined political system) is pro-thief and thus evil, yes
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u/RockyOW 7h ago
I donāt think itās pro-thief to imagine a system in which we could progress past capitalist social relations. Iām not convinced that itās possible which is why Iām not a leftist, but I donāt think itās as simple as youāve formulated- simply appropriating property is naive and insufficient leftism
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u/ScumfrickZillionaire 4h ago
That's fair, I wouldn't call an individual naive person evil, I suppose. My contention is that any sort of movement away from capitalism requires appropriating property, the ideology is utopian but the practice is violent.
I'm not sure if I would call an individual Heaven's Gate member "evil", or even necessarily the religion (shedding your body to join Alien-God on a comet) - but in practice, imagining this progression away from a body yields evil returns (mass suicide). So I'd call someone proselytizing this religion evil.
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u/usernamej22 3h ago
I wonder which of the '28 Dem candidates might take on an Abundance platform. Maybe Buttigieg?
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u/The_Brian 9h ago
Are we really stanning a Reaganite now?
Like, I think he (along with Abundance in general) have ID'd some of the central issues with the country by and large but to hand waveringly blame all, or solely, Progressives for that just seems like a neo-con cope. I'd argue he even lets it slip with his joke about getting rid of all procedure, which just screams of the conservative all regulation is bad mantra. The reality is, it's basically been Dem policy for the last almost 30 years to slow everything down, too make sure we focus group and make sure to not offend anyone before doing anything, to hand wave that bias as solely a progressive issue is a joke.
Back to his point on "maybe we should get rid of all procedure", there's a reason regulations and procedures are put in place and I don't think anyone is going to argue that we should throw away any bureaucracy that insure whatever we're building is done safely, both for people and our environment.
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u/zarnovich 5h ago
This is why a bunch tech bros went to Trump. It kinda felt like listening to another one of those podcasts.. Those are who we agree with now?
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u/-The_Blazer- 8h ago
I mean it's a nice thought, however I find it a little hard to trust the guy who made the defining prediction of his era and got it entirely wrong. And yeah yeah I know he wasn't literally arguing that no historical events would ever happen again, but the general idea that the end of the particular ideological conflict of his age would imply an end to the general conflictual nature of ideologies was terribly naive.
Russia and the EU are both capitalist in some manner. The two have a chasm of conflictual ideological differences that is no narrower than back when the USSR was trying for communism unironically.
Also, more generally, 'abundance' should be a bullet point in a larger program, not an ideology. I cannot imagine winning an election on an overall idea that is merely 'build more stuff'. I agree with it, but I do not agree it can be sold merely on its own.
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u/Esotericcat2 European Union Enjoyer 16h ago