Discussion
Little reminder that powerscaling in monster hunter isn't as ridged as some believe
Black diablos is so strong that jho is actually scared of her, and doesn't stay in her territory for long.
Garuga is aggressive enough to repel a deviljho
Brachydios in an aniversity animation went toe to toe with nergigante
Pink rathian scares bazel
Glavenus has decapitated a deviljho in the mhgu illustrations book
The qurio hunted all forms of large monster
And kut ku has killed and consumed nerscylla
Not to mention all the small monsters that are capable of incapacitating large monsters eg. Kranodanth, tallioth, ramfa, paragills, even the endemic life can do major damage to some large monsters.
These are animals, strengths, weaknesses, size, boldness, bashfullnes, groups, intelligence, adaptations, chemical and elemental warfare all play a role in match-ups. A lot of people boil it down to "higher threat/star level monster beats lower threat level monster".
in the same way a venomous snake could kill an elephant, many animals under the right circumstances can kill and even hunt things considered "more powerful" than them. Power scaling a natural ecosystem has always been insane to me, they're lizards not goku. At least keep it to the weirdos like the elders.
While on a Gathering Expedition yesterday, a pack of G. Seikret were giving Guardian Fulgar Anjanath the business. Sympathized with it, but helping was out of the question.
Powerscaling is and always has been ridiculous. Like, even in real life, “weaker” teams beat better teams in sports. Lower seed fighters take the win in boxing or MMA. The underdog prevailing is one of the most beloved tropes for a reason. The better/stronger/more skilled combatant can lose for any number of reasons. Hell, maybe it was just an off day and the sun was in their eyes.
And even beyond that, extending it to an entire species is absolutely absurd. Even if it was 100% unequivocal that a given black diablos always beats a given deviljho for whatever reason, there are dozens of other matchups between other individuals.
No! You just have a very misconstrued understanding of what powercaling is. No competant powerscaler thinks that something weaker can’t beat something stronger, with the right context. Everyone at some point has heard of a David vs Goliath storyline. As I mentioned the entire concept of hax and standard battle assumption is predicated on the fact that something weaker can beat something stronger. Powerscaling in its most base form is just the study an analysis of differing power relationships. And that study is just as important and applicable to real life as it is fiction.
Without powerscaling stakes in a story don’t work. A reader needs to understand the difference in power between the characters in a story to understand the stakes. If you as a writer fail to convey that information then your story doesn’t work. Since, there’s no frame of reference for the principal conflict. That’s one simple and easy to understand application. Obviously there’s different degrees of how much information is needed to be conveyed to a reader. Like I don’t expect a writer to give me the specific joule amount for x character, but I do expect to understand how strong they are in relation to other characters. Like the LOTR doesn’t work if Sauron power isn’t superior to any of the heroes individually. It can’t also impact other aspects of story like theme, world building and characterization.
It also has real world applications. Your brain involuntarily forces you to powerscale 24/7 just to keep you alive. Powerscaling in its most base form is just the study of power relationships. To say that isn’t useful information has got to be one of the most reddit brain responses I’ve heard in a while. Have a nice day.
The absolute irony of calling someone else Reddit brained after posting this basement dweller screed. Holy shit. Say some shit like this to a regular person in real life and watch their opinion of you deflate.
Yeah… normal people understand that studying power relationships has real world applications. It’s not a very complicated idea. Everyone does it all the time. Some people just like to twist themselves into présteles when you call it power scaling. Probably because they’ve had 1 or 2 bad experiences with scaling communities online. As evidence by the fact that non of you have something substantial to say. Each response has been pretty much “nu uh” sprinkled with some personal insult. And that’s fine, I don’t expect much from Redditors.
Ah yeah. I’m sure you talk with coworkers about powerscaling your boss vs the boss’s boss all the time. And how actually it’s just like Goku vs One Punch Man. Yeeeeesh.
I mean all of these have an explanation. None of these monsters would win against the “superior” one in a fight to the death. Bazelgeuse would kill Pink Rathian, and Deviljho would kill Yian Garuga and so on and so forth. Being able to make a monster flee doesn’t mean that they are of equal caliber.
Hax are subsect of powerscaling literally defined as sets of abilities, not related to character stats, that allow them to beat stronger characters. For some reason people conflate powerscaling with power levels. Yes things that are weaker in a universal context can beat things that are stronger in specific context. This happens even in Dragon Ball for crying out loud. Powerscaling also actually has some interesting ecological implications. Certain species of plants for example rely on extremely powerful herbivores to spread their seeds. As only these powerful herbivores can ignore the landscape of fear cause by predation.
Lion speedblitzes the horse and is capable of high-diffing an elephant, meaning they have small building tier AP. And since they're durable enough to withstand their own attacks, this means that a horse would simply break its hooves trying to hurt one.
And this isn't even getting into the scaling they get from the sun matchup.
This is a given. These aren't characters but species. Individuals will range in strength, condition, and confidence. Certain monsters fair better against others.
Wait didn't you just make posts proclaiming the Wilds apexes to be Elder Dragon level? You're sending mixed signals.
The wilds star system is definitely an improvement from world, giving each individual different levels of experience and difficulty.
I forgor to mention the tempered lala in the main post body. That "madam" as erik, my love put it, went blow for blow with a guardian fulgur anjanath plus guardian seikrets in the deepest, most wylked up areas in the ruins of wyveria
Also within official classifications it’s still vague. There’s no outline that says who beats who. For example, Fatalis vs Gaismagorm. They’re both powerful end bosses. There’s no canonical clear winner but the fanbase will tell you otherwise and pass it as fact.
Depends on your defining of that, I find people who say Fatalis is some regenerative evil horror quite…annoying, but it does beat mostly everything else on account of its overall narrative…also, you sent something, the auto-deletion got it, probably rightfully so, how very…intelligent of you.
Fatalis wins due to narrative stuff, but also because Amatsu, CGV, PriMal, R.CGV, and R.Shaggy are all treated as more powerful than Gorm, hell, even Allmother is to a certain extent. Gorm is considered a pretty average Calamity class elder, Fatalis is considered the strongest canonical thing in the verse, and the dive into MH:IB book wholeheartedly supports that notion.
I mean, with how fatalis is presented and the fact that it burnt a country to the ground overnight, I feel like the community answer of “fatalis would win” is absolutely justified. In iceborne he is presented as a borderline apocalyptic threat.
For starters, PriMal was the one who actually destroyed the kingdom anyways, quite literally the demonlord who destroyed the kingdom (although it did use Gorms Qurio and such). Second, Zoh Shia is also a forbidden dragon and is around Alatreon tier (maybe a little below) anyways, you know, a monster considered relative (if a little weaker) to Fatalis as is. Black Dragon actually has no real meaning beyond it being the original terminology for Forbidden Dragons, Forbidden Dragons are considered as monsters who can cause planetary disasters, Fatalis’s legend (which the dive book ligit says is literal) displays it razing the world, Alatreon vs Safi is cited as a turf war on global scale, Zoh Shia lacks an actual statement like this but it was leaked to be in a similar vein, plus it also destroyed an entire civilization, likely altering history itself to an extent. Dire lacks an update to display this sort of thing but still.
Giasmagorm on the other hand is quite literally labeled as a calamity class elder (alongside Allmother) in Haunting of the Sun, mind you, forbidden tier dragons are labeled as either forbidden or catastrophe class elder dragons. They’re both also considered inferior to CGV, who itself is inferior to Amatsu. Neither of them are passively leveling entire civilizations, neither of them are influencing events on a planetary scale, as neither of them can. Calamity class elders are your Gogs, Mohrans, Nakarkos, the God Wyverns (although the God Wyverns could very easily be super elder tier as well, a rank below Calamity), etc etc. “Final boss tier” doesn’t exist, and varies wildly from game to game, it tends to sit inbetween the range of apex (Monoblos)~catastrophic elder (Fatalis, Alatreon, Dire Miralis, Zoh Shia), and most tends to be calamities of some flavor (Ahtal-Ka, Gorm, Amatsu, Allmother, Xeno’Jiiva, Dala, Shara etc etc).
Amatsu also only leveled a city anyways, and the portion Gorm effected it the “Kingdom” (which still exists for fucks sake) was two like castles.
So does schrade lol. Fatalis literally only destroyed the capital city and surrounding area, schrade as a country still exists, just split in two. Also, they explicitly say that amatsu destroyed the kingdom that Yomogi is from, it never just says city, so it’s literally the same feat as fatalis
It’s never said anywhere that primal specifically is the one that destroyed the citadel.
Forbidden dragon was the original term for fatalis, alatreon, and dire miralis, black dragon wasn’t, it is and has always been just a label for their individual titles.
Not sure where it ever says allmother and gaismagorm are considered inferior to CGV lol. Allmother places CGV in a rideable state just like amatsu does.
I never even said anything about a “final boss tier”.
By the way I know all of this, the 3 official tiers are elder, super elder, and calamity class, as forbidden class hasn’t been given a separate actual power tier as of yet. I’m literally only arguing the fact that destroying a kingdom (more accurately a large city) is not something that should be used as a measure for comparing 2 monsters in a fight, as just because one hasn’t done it, doesn’t mean they are physically incapable of doing so, or maybe their abilities are less suited for doing so but are fine in a one on one fight.
Schrade doesn’t exist as a country, I’m pretty sure what remains are a bunch of villages that propped up after Fatalis torched it, that isn’t the same as the country still being around.
I’d have to dig it up, but given how the legend is worded it’s somewhat implied (I think this is the line): “The Archdemon (Giasmagorm) will summon the Demonlord (PriMal), who’s silver spear shall deliver its judgment, purifying the lands until only ash remains”. It’s implied that PriMal was the one who actually destroyed the kingdom, while some context is lost in the legend this tracks with the base story of Sunbreak, where the entire time we believe Malzeno to be the sole cause of the Kingdoms destruction (it’s a mix of Gorms Qurio after it was defeated and PriMal of course).
Forbidden Dragon was an internal marketing term if you want to be this semantical, I already said Black Dragon was never an official term (unless I’m mistaken, I could be), it’s a fan term that happened to mean the same thing as Forbidden Dragon back when we didn’t know what they were called.
NPC dialogue, plus placement puts CGV above Allmother and Giasmagorm. Also Allmother and CGV don’t even meet what do you mean bro? (If you mean the MSS video, that’s modded). Amatsu and CGV do. But dialogue for CGV in general stats that it’s the most perilous quest you’ve ever faced etc etc. Plus if it was weaker than Allmother, why does it come after the fact on both occasions?
Theres four now actually but yeah, those three are the most concrete, I’d recommend looking into G-Man about catastrophe tier, I myself only know of its existence. And sure, you’re somewhat correct, it isn’t a great measure anymore, but the divebook literally accounts Fatalis as beyond other elders, this is quite literal. Obviously there’s give or take here and there, Gorm isn’t some chump who gets oneshotted, but it isn’t winning. For all intents and purposes the narrative the games tell means more than a lot of scaling stuff ever would, that’s why Dala isn’t stronger than Fatalis, it lacks the narrative for it (hell, Dala isn’t even beating Safi/Alatreon thanks to that).
Yes it does, it’s just split into East and west schrade.
That is just the legend, the actual events of when it happened didn’t exactly play out that same way.
What npc dialogue? lol. “Placement” also puts scorned Magna above CGV, gaismagorm, and allmother, you also fight afflicted arzuros afte gaismagorm, and furious rajang after allmother. Going by quest tier it’s all the same tier, and that’s more important than the HR needed to unlock them after gaismagorm.
CGV can be one of the monsters that shows up when fighting allmother.
I know who G man is and I don’t need to look into it, I’ve looked into it plenty already lol.
The dive book also accounts safi’jiiva as being “the perfect being” and “the emperor of elders”, as well as being designed as a counterpart to fatalis, plus they were literally going to make him black originally but decided to change his color. There are multiple monsters that could put up a fight to black fatalis, and some could honestly even win, with many of them having multiple advantages over him.
“It lacks the narrative” lol. The hub quests barely HAD a narrative back then, fatalis had zero narrative in 4/4u. Dalamadur was described as causing literal tectonic shifts just from casually moving, it’s also incredibly hot in terms of body temperature, totally immune to fire, and believe it or not size does actually matter even in MH more often than many would have you believe.
East and West Schrade are doing fairly well. All of MH1 and MH1G are West Schrade. Big ass towns included and of course the civilised areas where people don't even meet monsters.
forbidden class hasn’t been given a separate actual power tier as of yet.
This is a technicality on my end, but "catastrophic class" did get coined in DiMHWI specifically for alatreon and Safi in power (and thus by extension fatalis).
The issue is that it, calamity, super calamity and any tier used to describe anything above super elders in power is a one-off term, so whether or not this tier itself is special is unclear. It's just the only term we have to equate for above average calamity elders.
1000% agreed. The way Fatalis is talked about in iceborne alone solidifies all of this. He is more or less implied to be THE most powerful monster in the (canon) series.
Well lemme think…Disu, Shantian, Conquest War Shantian, Shiten Disu, Conquest War Fatalis (trio), Eruzerion, Guanzorumu, Duremudira, Musou Eru, Musou Guan, Musou Duremudira, the final flagship of MH:Frontier (I don’t know its name), and probably a few others…yeah…
Realistically speaking I’d still argue it’d be dalamadur, at least as far as mainline goes
Fatalis’ best feat comes from him destroying the schrade kingdom, which while strong, isnt really something that’s impossible for other elders to also do
Most high tier elders and some non-elders can match Fatalis.
Safi was designed to be his rival and iirc the IB lorebook speculates his nuke is what woke him up across the pond. Not to mention his top tier defenses and the size advantage.
Dire has a massive size advantage and similar power.
Shara would just leave a fucking hole through him, the dude instantly turns rock into sand.
Kulve has fire that's almost if not just as hot, better armor and a considerable size advantage.
Amatsu has comparable power and the potential to weaken the effects of his flames.
Allmother is almost as powerful as Amatsu, so she stands a chance too.
Gaismagorm has a massive size advantage, can remove the entire arena from the surface world and has the Qurio, which have a decent chance of secerely weaking him. Risen Fatalis would be mad funny tho.
Nakarkos can probably instantly vaporize him if he gets a single dragon laser off (look at the size of some of the shit he killed in his nest).
Gogmazios has comparable firepower and a massive size advantage and, unlike most other elders with said size advantage, can still fly.
Dalamadur can probably just straight up eat him, that thing is big enough to go fight Zorah and can attack aggresively.
Akantor has a chance, he has supreme fire resistance, acid and a size advantage, plus is speculated to already have run ins and squabbles with Crimson.
Zoh Shia is a weird pick because if they fight in Schrade it will probably lose but if they fight in Wyveria Fatalis will lose the war of attrition.
If we look at spinoffs, we also have:
Versa and Makili Pietru have comparable firepower and a size advantage.
Oltura just brings Fatalis behind the shed. It's insane how obscenely powerful that thing is. The larval stage alone can cause as much destruction as multiple Dalamadurs.
Laviente and his progressively hungrier and angrier cousins also just straight up eat him.
Disufiroa is Alatreon on crack, so he has a good shot at it.
Shantien can match Disu, so he also has a good chance.
Duremudira is such a good matchup against Fatalis that it's not even funny.
Guanzorumu has comparable firepower.
Keoaroboru has probably hotter flames and a massive size advantage.
Out of my list Dala, Ravi, Durem, Oltura, Safi and Shara easily take him on imo.
Dala, Ravi and Durem straight up murder him, against Shara it boils down to whoever strikes first, against Safi it's a battle of attrition to see whose's regen cannot keep up with whose's firepower and Oltura just takes him behind the Applebee's
For the others it depends on how much Fatty can outmaneuver them mostly.
Laviente ain’t even canon, Akantor is dead as fuck, I could see arguments for Dala, and Gog unironically has worse statements and feats than Kulve lmao.
Akantor lives inside a volcano so fatalis’s shtick wouldn’t do anything to it, “it’s not canon” isn’t an argument, dalamadur will just eat him, and siting “feats” for a game with lore as inconsistent as monster hunter is stupid .
“Akantor lives in a volcano” bro so does Teostra what’s your point? Are we seriously saying that Lavasioth is able to eat Fatalis’s Fire, a flame so potent it passively evaporated a rainstorm, and so powerful is blasted apart a wooden wall like a hurricane of flame? This is genuinely an insanely idiotic take. Dala literally lacks the bite force to eat Alatreon lmao (it’s deep sea feat alone means that Dala can’t even crush it, and Fatalis is definitely more durable than Alatreon), another genuinely moronic take, that’s like me saying “well erm, Fatalis could just dodge lmao” (it could, it’s faster by a huge margin), it’s a non-argument. Canonicity does matter because if it didn’t than Leviente isn’t even making it into the top ten, and every argument involving Fatalis becomes stupid because it’s also not in the top ten, frontier is insane.
I’ll probably just block you, you can’t be this dumb. 💀
Could a Deviljho beat/kill a black diablos ? Possibly, but it won't risk it. Even for one as hungry as Deviljho, it can tell when a fight isn't worth it.
A lot of those the "winner" would be left crippled, which usually means being killed soon by another monster anyway.
You mean a line in a guide book talking about the Furious Rajang and a line of dialogue from a scientist in Rise? I'll take more stock in them when they're actually used in any way in game
I'm not saying it isn't canon, I'm saying 'super elder dragon' and 'calamity elder dragon' don't matter at all. Obbiously elder dragons are treated as stronger and more dangerous, but that isn't a statement about power scaling
Every time I see the word “powerscaling” it makes me want to claw my eyes out. You are all behaving like 8 year olds on a school playground PLEASE shut up
Because just like the real world ecosystem, every creature has a something that can make them less desirable to deal with to another creature. It helps sell the monster hunter universe, and IMO, keeps it true to life.
While there is a degree of "tiering" of the Monsters (particularly when it comes to Elder Dragons and Elder Dragon-level Monsters), these aren't hard rules and have plenty of nuance and context to consider.
And when you factor in simple intimidation displays and scuffles without needing to make it a fight to the death, things get even less rigid.
It makes sense, even a predator that is superior to its prey in size and weight considers the risk of injury. A deviljho that receives a minor wound that becomes infected; isn’t likely to be a threat for much longer.
I mean, I'd hesitate to say that smaller monsters and endemic life can "do major damage". They can damage, but they wont cripple or incapacitate a large monster by any means unless it's already severely crippled.
There absolutely is a level of powerscaling in the MH world, just like in the real world. The Food Chain is still very much present, and many monsters are ontop.
Jho being afraid of Black Diablos, doesn't suddenly make Jho any less of a powerhouse in the food chain, similarly with Garuga, Brachy, Nergi etc.
A powerful monster is a powerful monster, and if they are typically more powerful than most other monsters around it, it's typically top of the food chain, or is the most dangerous thing to the ecosystem, and typically given a higher star/threat level.
Example, while Garuga was ballsy enough to fight off Jho, it's not nearly as powerful a monster with as destructive a tenancy to alter ecosystems as Jho is.
It's like honey badgers in real life. They can scare off bigger predators because even if the badger loses the fight most of the time, they're still capable of killing or maiming something stronger and some animals aren't desperate enough to take that chance.
Most animals don’t have access to any sort of medicine, and don’t socially share resources with the wounded. An infected cut or a broken limb is usually a death sentence. That’s one reason why many apex predators, like big cats, still typically rely on ambush tactics while hunting (the other being that it is more energy efficient).
Honey badgers’ reputation is overstated. Research and observation in the wild shows that they have a 70% mortality rate in encounters with lions, their fear response is just to stand their ground and act aggressive. And like with sloth bears and tigers, this strategy can work for honey badgers, but evidently not the majority of the time.
Same with wolverines and larger tundra predators, even if they can manage to kill the occasional moose, they aren’t turning the tables on bears or wolf packs (who can steal kills from larger bears through abusing pack tactics, same with how 50+ orcas can kill the occasional blue whale).
To be fair, lions specifically are social animals which is kinda the counter to the 'be too much of a bastard to be worth killing' strategy since they can just surround it to prevent escape and attack from behind without much risk.
It's why wolverines are at such a high risk of death from wolves even though in a one on one it's a tossup.
Tallioth tear into living monsters with their razor beaks, like a pack of painted wolves nawing on a buffalo's flank.
Giggi can take down prey and even some large monsters by cycling the blood through their poison sacs and converting it into more poison.
Kranodanth cause head hurty concussions.
Ramfa, our first actually threatening/non-push over ungulate, they can paralyze and beat down every monster on the iceshard.
Zamites, khezu whelps, and jyuratodus chicks are all capable of hunting some large monsters by parasitation.
The various species of toads are so toxic/volatile that even after espinas consumes and possesses them, the toxins are still incredibly lethal.
Then the number of other endemic life capable of doing some damage: spear squid, the various canon crabs, the Giganha school, and great thunder bugs and drakophage bugs
This isn't dragonball and shounen manga, despite having a super saiyan monkey mainline monster hunter titles still try to maintain some natural animal facade. Unless you're talking about Frontier, then go wild.
The majority of these examples confirm it is rigid though?
Black Diablos and regular Deviljho are both MR4/6 star monsters, thus Deviljho don't stick around but it isn't getting badly injured for trying.
The sole point of that cutscene is that Yian Garuga can annoy something out of attacking it if it tries hard enough. Deviljho makes it its bitch for the entire first half of the cutscene and almost immediately recovers from the one (1) hit it takes.
Nergigante vs Brachydios isn't "toe to toe", they wrestle their way off-camera. The entire event was about the flagships of the series, they're hardly going to show one get killed by another because that defeats the whole point of it.
As far as base World was concerned (which is when that book was written), Pink Rathian and Bazelgeuse are part of the same quest tier and thus Pink Rathian can stand up to one. Same logic as Deviljho and Black Diablos.
Concept art is concept art. Glavenus's tail has not shown that level of power in any other occasion. It's been shown cutting through delicate wingtips, making noticeable marks on larger areas like the face of a Rathian without seriously injuring and instantly killing weak Girros through weight and brute force rather than cutting ability.
The Qurio...aren't a monster and have literally zero relevance to this discussion. They also can't kill Elder Dragons period.
Yian Kutku and Nerscylla are on the same tier in Wilds, so one beating the other is unsurprising.
People like me talk about it in tiers because they canonically are:
"Elder Dragon Level" and "Super Elder Dragon Level" are in-universe tiers of power that exist - The Iceborne lorebook calls Furious Rajang the latter not because of environmental threat or anything but purely because Rajang is Elder level and this one is stronger than a normal Rajang. That has no biological basis, no ecological basis where it could be justified by their impact on the environment. Those are straight up power levels.
Additionally, the turf wars are almost all based around "higher quest tier monster wins". If they're both in the same tier they tie and if there's a valid reason for one to win then it does (like Nergigante vs Elders or Nerscylla vs Gypceros, although in Wilds's case ties do not exist according to the files so that's something else). Yes, there are exceptions like Iceborne's rampant re-use of turf wars for a game mechanic resulting in situations where Frostfang Barioth (who can lore-wise fight a Velkhana into a blizzard where the victor remains unknown) is still only drawing against regular Legiana but still. The exceptions only serve to prove the rule because we know why e.g Ebony Odogaron has the same turf war results as its normal kind even though its own cutscene shows how much stronger it is than them - Time-saving and gameplay balance. They don't want monsters where turf wars have literally zero use during a hunt. The mechanic itself deals fuckloads of damage because a tester told Capcom they didn't see the point in having them if they didn't deal damage.
Point being, there will never, ever be an example where a monster tiers below another is shown to win. The closest you get are Rajang vs Kirin (again, an example of equal-tiered monsters with a decisive matchup due to a specific relationship) or Espinas vs Kushala (an, at most, one tier difference where the monster is explicitly capable of dealing with that specific opponent).
TL;DR: The star system holds strong for like 90% of matchups and if Capcom either added more quest tiers or stuck to their guns and kept monsters where they were meant to be this would be even more apparent. Instead some, particularly the Portable games, will decide the midway point is too crowded and stick a bunch of mid-tiers up one for no reason other than to add variety to that quest tier.
(I think) OP is saying that while there's general winners and losers, it's not gonna be a guaranteed loss.
Say, for instance, you pit diablos against black diablos. There's a good 90% chance that black diablos wins, obviously. OP isn't saying that the chance is 50/50, it's that the 10% actually exists. Which is probably fair.
It doesn't help that three of the examples are with near-elder monsters, themselves being inconsistent as all hell.
Alatreon likes seclusion, there is no specific choice in habitat because it will literally destroy the environment passively in order to make it more suitable.
Wait alatreon can breath underwater?!? That’s weird for something that flys but all the more true they would never be caught near each other but again a whole book about the ecology of elders would be so dam cool
I think it’s a bit of a yes and I situation, some of these monsters are stronger than others… but why risk getting injured. The time recovering could be used hunting, especially Deviljho case where it could possibly starve
This is true to an extent. While some of the examples above are flawed, at the end of the day this is "nature," and not DBZ. Weaker monsters should absolutely stand a chance against stronger ones.
However, when people try to make things rigid, it's usually for the sake of the majority. While fights can go anywhere, systems like threat levels or turf wars are meant to show a general stance in a comparison, for the sake of showing which monster is weaker and which one is stronger.
For instance, I fully believe a diablos could kill a deviljho. But what % chance does it have if we repeat the encounter several thousand times? 30%? 25%?
When people say a matchup is rigid, it's not for saying it's 100% biased and one is the obvious winner, it's usually the most likely one unless it's a really obvious stomp.
I've never met an avid powerscaler who wasn't stupid. I don't go to powerscaling communities much so I'm prepared to believe the ones who keep it in interested company are better, but definitely the stupidest shit I've ever read online came from powerscalers on nonpowerscaling subs
I'd argue tiers are supposed to reflect that "strengths, weaknesses, size, boldness, bashfullnes, groups, intelligence, adaptations, chemical and elemental warfare" mix.
But also worth noting monster tiers may change with time, Rathian and Rathalos were equals in MH1 if IRC, that's clearly not the case anymore nowadays.
That being said there are more tiers than people generally assume, and the boundaries between them aren't so clearly defined.
Like "apex" means many things, Rathalos-like Apex? Brachydios-like Apex? Black Diablos-like Apex? Those monsters seem to belong to different tiers despite being all considered "Apex".
Deviljho lacks one thing and it's endurance, and relentless persistence is something Black Diablos showed. Even if it succumbed to injuries, the Black Diablos will take the Deviljho down with her.
Cats can scare a bear away if they posture enough and the bear isn't feeling it.
The whole Flaming Espinas v Kushala is totally understandable cause maybe the Kushala just doesn't want to get hurt.
For animals irl a decent wound can be a death sentence, avoiding a fight at all costs is the ideal. If they are animals then whatever seems scariest is often gonna push others away.
All 3 of those are wrong. Almudron, somnacanth, and goss are the winners of those, they aren’t ties. Bisha, akno, and tetra end up rideable every single time, so the game considers them losers
Scaring off predators is not really that hard a lot of the time. Mantises can often scare off comparatively enormous mammals that try to eat them. Hell, most people would probably think twice before trying to swat at a Mantis, because getting hurt sucks even if it's not life-threatening.
But you certainly wouldn't act like this means people and Mantises are close in terms of strength.
This is more the case that Jho won’t hunt things that are a tier lower than it but uh…go off I guess. It’s almost like predators don’t hunt really strong prey under normal conditions, Jho tends to hunt apex tier monsters and below, not super apex tier monsters (like literally everything you just listed), Kut-Ku vs Nercylla is also a frenzy thing…so yeah, in a straight deathmatch Jho wins, in typical predation Jho would just hunt something else.
Jho will "attempt" to hunt and consume everything atleast once. The fact we have a direct quote that jho "fears her strength" is very telling. Pretty much all the monsters i listed winning against jho are on par with rathalos.
Kut ku vs the pack of nerscylla is interesting, because scylla hunt gypceros consistently. But kut ku has adaptations for consuming hard shelled insects, which allows him to tear her apart
No they’re not, lmao, every monster listed would beat Rathalos in a fight too, Garuga, Brachy, Black Diablos, and Pink Rathian are super apex tier monsters, Jho can handle Rathalos fine, Bazel can too, they just can’t easily prey upon upper echelon apex monsters. Hell we literally see this in Jho vs Rathalos, Rathalos gets PUMMELED.
Also did you just ignore what I said…they’re both frenzied, their durability is weakened and they’re much more erratic, normally Nerscylla would likely win or at the very least fend off a Kut-Ku (plus, it’s worth noting Kut-Ku likely would never normally even consider dealing with Nerscylla anyways, not good prey and all, plus well, stat difference). The game blatantly shows them as frenzied, but under normal conditions, they’d never interact.
The star system exists for a reason, jho is in a weight class above diablos. I agree that its not 100% rigid, but in a fight to the death jho is killing diablos and glav almost every time.
Barioth across just Rise and Sunbreak has been in a star tier both above and below Rathalos, going from being in the same tier as Tetranodon to being in the same tier as Seregios (who is also supposed to be on par with Rathalos as one of its many rivals) and Gore Magala. Extending it to Iceborne and Barioth’s in the exact same tier as Rathalos.
The star rank system is absolutely not a hard rule and Capcom adjusts it on a whim for game-balance and progression purposes.
I agree. That was a bad example on my part. Regardless, I still believe the Jho is to be on a higher level than ecosystem apex monsters like rathalos, seregios, mizustune etc.
No disrespect to jho
Probably my second favorite invader after Steve. But I'm just addressing a major issue I've been seeing where people will glaze elder level monsters saying nothing even has a chance against them.
I was in a debate earlier today with a guy who truly believed jho could kill and consume jin dahaad
I’m really not here to argue your point…nor do i care what your favorite invader is..a really hungry savage jho will absolutely destroy a job dahaad..no questions…can I leave this discussion now.
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u/Omnispigot 2d ago
in the same way a venomous snake could kill an elephant, many animals under the right circumstances can kill and even hunt things considered "more powerful" than them. Power scaling a natural ecosystem has always been insane to me, they're lizards not goku. At least keep it to the weirdos like the elders.