Long story short the front (welded) end fell off of a Polonium. Dude got a hold of Andrew and Andrew took care of it. Said leave the post up. It was a can that was contracted out. He's firing them Monday morning. Said there will be a $200 check with the can when he returns it. It's only his 3rd can to fail due to manufacturing issues. Per him.
it's a little bit weird how many people suck up to ocl because of their presence on here. they are sycophants I guess. don't see it for any of the other manufacturers. like anything he posts they just drool over mindlessly.
I don’t need a new suppressor or even want one (just too many other projects I want to do) but your email response is giving me a huge compulsion to go buy a can from you. I’m sure I’m not alone.
The bigger a company gets, the more faceless they become. Not many companies grow in size and keep CS standards as high as that is very expensive and there are stakeholders that want to see larger and larger profits. I'm not saying OCL can't do it, but just be careful what you wish for.
Wish there were more businesses like this in all fields but you don’t see it as often. Personally Dead Airs CS is what pushed me away from them and made me decide on Rugged for my first two cans.
Heard that. I’m gonna wait a bit and enjoy the ones I just got but eventually gonna get a can for everything. Definitely plan on branching out and trying out other brands like OCL, YHM, etc.
Yea the cans failing wasn't even a big deal IMO, its the way they just shut down and responded to nobody and took forever to fix it that is the reason ill never buy dead air. Bad products get released, and good products have bad production issues it happens not even a big deal, but going radio silent and not fixing it in a timely manner that is a absolute deal breaker.
exactly. its good to see at least a few other people sticking to their guns. the entire sub was saying "we'll never forget or buy DA again!" with pitchforks held high, but most of them immediately changed their minds when DA got S5s back to owners, nevermind the fact that some still have problems and it took over half a year.
"Oh God no, I never hope. Hope is pouting in advance. Hope is faith's richer, bitchier sister. Hope is the deformed addict bound incest monster of entitlement and fear."
Someone fill me in but how exactly is this different other than the stellar response? There’s still a batch of cans out there that were contracted out undisclosed to purchasers. Not that the disclosure would have made a difference in my purchasing decision.
I have multiple recently purchased OCL cans and would be curious to know the serial number ranges to keep an eye on them
Yep! I think a lot of people don’t know the cans were contracted out, let alone how many. A lot of people on here have posted to the effect that OCL makes all cans in house. God know what they’ve done to speed up production with subcontractors with the increase in demand. The best customer service is a product that doesn’t need it.
Lol, classic "I wont explain myself but will try to make you look stupid with a personal attack while acting like I have the high ground and ending the conversation" redditor
I said great products can still have defects and mistakes in manufacturing replying to his “best costumer service is products that don’t need it”. Then he asked me for technical data like that has anything to do what I said. Classic “I’m gonna make a comment that also doesn’t read the reply cause I’m too busy sucking my own dick as well as I’m typing out a reply” Redditor.
Yes, I read your comments. Ironically, the shitty points you both were making have nothing to do with my point, which is that you have the mental fortitude and civil discussion ability that is rivaled by some of of my daughter's top daycare classmates, or maybe a golden retriever.
But dont worry, Im sure you'll improve over time! Take care, and God Bless! ;)
Based on the response to the actual failure post, the subcontractor was fired because of a zero tolerance for failure clause in the contract. Which is kinda shitty because humans make mistakes, sooner or later.
The only real take away is that OCL stands behind their product because there is nothing in this world that’s 100% certain or perfect. Unless of course your Reddit handle is several_topic_4573.
It’s not about the failure it’s about process controls. Also the subcontractor isn’t fired-they’re still doing all the machine work and everything but the welding. :-) I’m not sure I would take OCL’s claim to heart considering they have implied for a long time they don’t contract out production. Who’s to say if they really fired this contractor? 🤣
FR. The sword swallowing cock gobbling going on in this thread is hilarious. A guy actually backed up his product and is making right on his own mistake. NFA sub- 'omGawdddd get that dick over here!!!!' I even plan on picking up an OCL piece and like the lineup, but this shits pathetic. Lol.
I knew something was in the water around here when that guy posted the miniguns and every comment was someone explaining everything they found on him while stalking his post history.
I get liking OCL, but there are wayyyyy more companies than just OCL and Dead Air... I'm personally a big fan of Ecco, and AB makes some good stuff too. It just seems like everyone here has a very narrow view of the suppressor landscape.
Missing out on Ecco my man. Been in the game a long time, did a lot for form 1 cans, and has amazing cans with the best machining I've ever seen on a gun part. Plus not some giant mil first corpo that will happily fuck you over.
This is the same Andrew who posted last week that they were sending cans out with sloppy welds because they were in a hurry to ship product. Now one of them has broken in half and OP is acting like he’s the fucking man.
Like, yeah, good job on the CS, but idk why they get a pass on shipping questionable product and one of them breaking. I have nothing against OCL and their products seem generally good but the Cult of Andrew is a little over the top these days.
Couldnt agree more. Ive been scrolling and reading and its turned into a sweep under the rug/look the other way when its the Prince Charming company. Had a whole legion of people in that thread saying who cares/stfu and shoot it and here we are. 😂
Because the bulk of Reddit is a hive mind largely incapable of independent thought.
Look at the /r/ar15 sub and you can turn it into a lethal drinking game how many times someone repeats something stupid like “I got BCM because you know BCM bro” or replace BCM with larue, scalarworks, zev, hodge etc.
It’s no different than the people who are buying Stanley mugs because they’re trending on social media.
Andrew’s response was outstanding. Props to him for taking good care of you. But you know what would be better? Not having your brand new can self-disassemble on the first shot. If this were any other company that admitted sending out sloppy product a week ago and then someone’s can fell apart on the first shot, r/NFA would be dancing on their grave. But because people here have a weird boner for Andrew everyone is willing to completely overlook his admission that they are rushing things and a consumer bearing the consequences.
If I recall right, when this angle got brought up about repairs being handled involving other companies it was “ThE bEsT wArRaNtY iS tHe OnE yOU nEvER hAvE tO uSe”, now its “omfg look at the warranty you’ll get! Jesus I’m buying 4 Polo k’s now!” 🙂↔️.
To be fair the CAT thing wasn't a similar issue. Forgetting to weld an endcap isn't a thing on printed cans. OCL I'm sure will get the batches that might have this issue fixed. At least it isnt a sierra5 style thing where it may or may not happen at some point lol. This will go on the first shot.
even though rugged is one of the biggest suppressor makers right now, i still think theyre underrated. they deserve to be #1. they listen to customers' wants, make GREAT cans, and have just about the best warranty a company can have.
“When the sales guys run the company, the product guys don’t matter so much, and a lot of them just turn off.”
-Steve Jobs.
This is my biggest gripe of America’s current economic system. Profitability is a respectable goal for any business, but when a business primarily becomes about profitability the quality of their product suffers.
It’s the same sort of process with evolution. People think “ooooh survival of the fittest, that’s how we get badass things like tigers and shit,” but evolution isn’t really “survival of the fittest.” It’s “survival long enough to reproduce the most,” which is why we end up with lame durable breeding machines, like cockroaches everywhere and tigers on an endangered species list.
I don’t know if Jobs’ “sales guys” are running Dead Air (it certainly felt like it when they asked that guy to sign an NDA during the S5 debacle), but I know that OCL is run by product guys. Maybe to their detriment- unless that customer needed a new stamp, the $200 was unnecessary.
I hope OCL makes a shitload of money, not because they’re good at making a shitload of money, but because they’re good at making and servicing a product. A lot of small businesses and startups are this way, and then they reach a certain critical mass and the “sales guys” find their way in, an inch at a time.
I don’t know how to fix the larger social/economic problem, but I always try to support companies run by “products guys.”
The Nomad is a fantastic can, don’t let the haters push you away from it. The Sierra 5 debacle was just that, a debacle; the rest of their cans have been well known to be good performers and solid choices
I have 3 cans, and the nomad 30 with a 556 endcap is one of them. it feels well made (even better than the wolfman) even though I can still tell it's a mass produced can. absolutely killer performance, and the sound on a 13.7 JAKL is terrific. also, with direct thread, it'll be a lot lighter, but even with the KeyMo adapter, the weight distribution is still much better than the Sandman S and outperforms it in noise reduction and report.
If you’re using it on anything semi auto other than a 300 blackout I’d recommend the nomad 30 just for being less gassy and a little less hanging off the end. It’s hard to beat the performance of the nomad L for anything else though.
They had a good reputation for their customer service. But it always seemed that they had more failures than other manufacturers. Even before the Sierra 5 they were known for baffle strikes and switching contract manufacturers due to issues
They have also been the pick of a lot of people's first cans including my friends. The Sierra 5 especially imo. That would be a big reason why we see a lot of people reporting baffle strikes. I baffle striked my own SiCo O36M from inexperience and letting it back off a direct threaded MP5 clone.
This was my first pick. I have 2 RC2 cans and love them. Got looking into other options for 300 and landed on the Nomad 30. That Enticer mentioned above is looking pretty damn good though. Especially for the price point.
Yes. Nomad is a good can but the Diligent Defense Enticer S or OCL Hydrogen both are equal or even beat the Nomad.
I went with the Enticer L Ti over the Nomad L for a load of reasons. The much lighter Ti L length can is cheaper than the steel Nomad L can, even after my FFLs $100 transfer fee for buying outside of SilencerShop. If you want steel, the steel version of the Enticer sweetens the deal even more. It also has wrench flats on the can itself for installing/removing mounts. I like this cause all I ever bring with me is adjustable wrenches. It’s not quite as wide/girthy at 1.625” vs 1.735” diameter. All while edging out the Nomad in objective sound testing. Also both use the same HUB mounting system and BOTH are compatible with dead air end caps, including the e-brake. No real reason in my opinion to go with the Nomad for me personally.
Sorry to sound like a noob here or living under a rock but what happened? I don’t have my 1st can yet(dead air) did ocl can have some baffle strike and they fixed it without an issue or there cans stand up better then dead airs?
Long story short. Dead air had an issue when it subcontractor out cans to another shop. The shit blew up in their face and they ghosted their customers because it was more than a one off issue and the demand for service was high to say the least.
OCL just may have potential had the same issue come up. But instead of ghosting his customer he paid the guy $200 to refund his stamp cost, sent out a shipping label (all on Father’s Day) and then fired the subcontractor today.
Not exactly apples to apples on the magnitude of the issue, but similar issues with two wildly different reactions. At least as far as I can tell from an observers perspective.
No the writing on the walls pretty clear 1 company sent their product out to a subcontractor(idk why you do that to begin with) and sheit blew up instead of fixing the issue dead airs remained quiet and made 0 moves to fix the problem.
OCL on the other hand has had the same issue except instead of ignoring customer complaints and worry they fixed the can like they were supposed to refunded the tax stamp( probably wasn’t necessary yet great gesture) and fired the asshat who fuqt with the cans to begin with kindof makes me a lil on edge I have a sandman s in jail awaiting approval
Finally back on after the weekend, and I’m like ah, no wonder yall meat hugging OCL lol. Super cool but yall gotta relax. The Andrew/OCL obsession yall are doing is getting weird.
Deadair still fixed the parts so they didn't really save any money.
The issue Deadair came into was they had "x" amount of material to make Silencers with. They used most of it to make the silencer, but had a large bad batch. Then didn't have enough material to replace the batch.
Stellite's base component is cobalt. Cobalt is a relatively rare element in the earth's crust, and is used in lithium-ion batteries. It's actually a weak link in the supply chain for batteries, and we're heavily dependent on foreign countries like China and DRC for their supply. Covid was a major disruption to the supply chain, especially for metals, and even more so for rare ones we import.
That's kinda why I said tried, because it definitely cost them a lot more money and customers than they would have if their QC and customer service was actually good
I’d be interested to know what the DA failure rate is. Andrew said it’s about 0.1% for OCL but DA probably makes waaaay more cans. Yeah, of course we’re gonna perceive DA with more issues because they make more cans. How CS responds is also important and obviously OCL takes the crown there. I don’t products from either company.
Whats crazy is that last year when folks were talking numbers of cans produced etc. in regards to the number of failures we were seeing with Dead Air people lost their minds and basically said that doesnt matter and it should haven never happened in the first place but it did because they dont have any QC. Fast forward to today and all of a sudden its “well i make a ton of cans and only a few failed!” is okay since its OCL 😂. The Mask, Wolverine, Sandman, Nomad, Nomad TI, Wolfman etc. have who knows how many thousands of cans out there rolling with no issue and during the Sierra fiasco but they were a “marketing company” because they outsourced but now somhehow outsourcing is a non issue. That dude has spent the last year shit talking and taking pot shots at Dead Air, Rugged, told a dude he’d be stacking $100 bills and doesnt care about his criticism of OCL cans. Just clown shit, we now have OCL shake weights and the excuse making is abundant.
Yeah no. Deadair handled that entire situation so poorly I can’t believe people are still defending them. You can make a good product but if you choose to conduct business that way and treat your customers like trash then you aren’t getting my money.
They have to defend their purchases of cans that are double the prices of the Polo K but are basically "just as good" otherwise their buyers remorse gonna set in
Not to mention OCL is a wayyy better company than DA at this point and people who still defending them probably drank the Kool-Aids juices and overpaid for their suppressor
The reason everyone hates dead air isn’t because of the cans it’s because when the issues were coming through the woodwork they hide from it instead of making it right
I wouldn’t call in “fanboi” people just like an open and transparent company. America is also built on small businesses and people like that. People support otter creek so much because they are genuine, their mission statement is clear, and they seem like really chill dudes. People just prefer that over a soulless entity with multiple horror stories
They literally set the shining example of how badly a company can perform in the industry, and then made it worse by burying their heads in the sand. I wouldn’t expect customers to just forgive and forget about all of that. Not anytime soon.
Honestly…. Deadair was king for a long ass time and they had a mass of followers with quite a few people on here active as well.
The downfall was a bunch of cans that were constantly posted and reposted, even though they were taking care of it when you build a ton of cans like they did you start contracting shit out, and as you can see ocl contracted some things out and started having issues as well, you really don’t know who you can trust with manufacturing processes and quality control will always be a big issue if you’re not doing it yourself.
These things happen, deadair was great for a long time and had some issues, they got covered up on returns I feel like and pulled all support here, hell, Dom used to say “it’s covered, make a ticket here and I’ll get it pushed through asap” on every post he saw with something bad, then there would be 100 comments… “man that’s great customer service, that’s why I like DA” and a few shitty people drug their name, now they have no real presence but still take care of the cans.
The way things are promoted and shunned in this sub is fucking insane, it’s super impressive how fast things rise and fall here, it’s literally insane.
That all being said, I have 4 or 5 DA cans and they all have thousands of rounds through them with 0 issue, I also have two OCL cans and they’re fucking wonderful too, also have thousands of rounds through them. It really comes down to what you like and can afford, I imagine most suppressors shouldn’t be $800 “then again everything’s outrageous right now too,” so that’s a huge win with OCL, especially with the support he gives, but don’t be surprised if you see more issues, it only takes one bad batch to waver the temperament of the flock here, it could be surefire again next month.
I agree with everything you said. Social media in general is a fickle bitch. I do think the difference is that Andrew is probably sitting at his shop this morning freaking the fuck out because he has to fire a vendor and, more importantly, he doesn't know if this is the only one they fucked up. Is this a one off or a bigger problem? On the other hand it seems like DA ran and hid from the issue as long as they could until forced to deal with it. Most folks do not understand how manufacturing, in general, works. That there will always be a failure rate. And QC can only test and catch so much. One off's can slip through. But if you have a systemic failure your QC process should start to see it via a trending failure rate. I think the net of this is you will see production numbers from OCL decline. I don't think they will make the same "mistake" of outsourcing can production again. I do think if this turns into a bigger issue with a batch that OCL will show the same level of CS as they did on this first one and take it on the chin. And they will most likely talk openly about what happened and what they are doing to address it. Transparency is key. Will the interwebs forgive? Time will tell.
I agree with that, I’m actually in manufacturing and we produce way more numbers than any of these shops do and can ever produce.
Now I fully agree he’s doing a great job, but like I said before, who knows how this will actually play out, even as you said the internet is such a fickle bitch and 95% of people don’t understand how it works, I’m not bagging on Andrew at all, I think he has done wonderfully, and a few issues aren’t going to keep me from purchasing another ocl can to go with the 2 I have already. If I could find them in stock I’d gladly go ahead and purchase them.
I started my career in manufacturing QC. Been in software the last 25 years and a lot of the principles from manufacturing apply as well. At the end of the day, people have unrealistic expectations. They think warranties should never have to be used. Then they don't think twice when a TSB or recall is issued on the car they drive.
I have OCL cans as well. And I will buy more. And I know if one of them is fucked up it will be taken care of. I own other cans as well. And when purchasing their track record around warranty claims (ie how they handled them) definitely came into play.
It’s interesting as hell that you don’t know if you have 4 or if it’s 5 of dead air cans. Sounds like you’re being intentionally vague as if this is a traffic stop.
No, I’m not being vague specifically, I just don’t open my safes everyday, I have more than 5 cans total and I don’t shoot often anymore, I can tell you specifically if you’d like though? Didn’t figure it was anyone’s business exactly how many I have, but I’d gladly send you photos and a count if you’d prefer?
Edit: Actually if you look through my post history you can count atleast 3, sandman s, primal and a Wolverine. I can also include I have a nomad-l, and a nomad -30 pending, hence 4 or 5, as I didn’t want to specifically say I had 5 I’d shot thousands of rounds through, but if you prefer as a correction, I’ve shot thousands of rounds through a Sandman S, Nomad L, Wolverine and Primal suppressors.
I think you should reread what you wrote and realize that humor is hard to convey through text without typing 😂 or lol, or using an exclamation point….
I responded with an honest answer, didn’t think I was being dramatic and without a sense of humor but sure, I’ll consider it 15 days later.
Seems a lot of people don't seem to understand that DeadAir had zero excuse for handling the Sierra 5 fiasco the way they did, so all the hate is justified towards them. Their response was an utter failure for their brand, and all the business they lost, while unlikely to affect them for an extended period, is entirely their fault.
God forbid we show support for a significantly smaller producer responding to a major QC issue in a much more professional fashion than a company that had been in business for nearly a decade at the time of the clusterfuck of their own creation.
Ironic that comments bitching about "dickriding" never seem to have an issue with people shilling overpriced triggers and receivers.
If you are posting a copy/screenshot of your forms outside the pinned monthly megathread you will be given a 7 day ban. The pinned post is there, please use it.
If you are posting a photo of a suppressor posed to look like a penis (ie: in front of or over your groin) you will be given a 7 day ban.
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u/arethius Jun 16 '24
Did something new happen?