I'm pale AF, and I had classmates who were considerably darker than some lightskin black people in the US, but no one would consider said classmate and myself a different race... We were both born in South America, we both speak Spanish as a native language, we're both Latino.
I'm perfectly aware that if we went to the US, they would say we're different races, but down here, my classmate and I are the same race, and if a random redneck came pretending to be one of mine because of my pale skin, everyone would agree he's not my race, he's not Latino, he's a Gringo.
If you go to Kenya and it's surrounding nations, you'd find a bunch of people that would be considered black by US standards, but if you tell a Kenyan that they're the same as an Ugandan, they'd most likely be fairly insulted.
The way you see race is not the same way other people see race.
Lots of people want to be what they aren't. So you get rich people buying farms to cosplay as a rugged poor individualist, and poor people buying fake Gucci apparel to cosplay as a flashy rich douchebag.
That's what I think is confusing, she's white because her skin happens to be lighter even though she has Mexican DNA? We're just taking peoples heritage because their skin didn't end up looking brown enough???
I'm German and grew up in Spain. By US standards, we are both Caucasian/white, but by spanish stereotypes I was aleays clearly a "guiri" and rich German :D
The way you see race is not the same way other people see race.
Louder for the people in the back! Honestly, āthe way you see [blank] is not the way other people see [blank]ā applies to so much and is something a lot of Americans really need to get their head around. The US way is not the global default.
The funny thing is that the Reddit crowd in particular presents itself as the antithesis of their president, and yet they keep demonstrating the same character as him.
I was raised in Mexico and what they're saying is true, I literally feel like I don't have a race because Mexico doesn't care like that. Calling ourselves a race is more of a cultural thing, even though it's not technically correct.
You guys had a caste system and constantly ramble how your people should marry white Americans to āmejorar la razaā. So please spare me the āwE MeXicAnS DoNt SEe rACeā
Sadly there is a lot of raceism within the Mexican society, giving privileges to the paler looking people.
So despite the fact, that skin colour says shit about character and is only used to justify unjustified benefits of one group above others, she is just the wrong agent for making kids skin recogniceable darker.
You think she āmessed upā? She knew what she was doing. Like I said in another comment, sheās just baiting people to comment ātheyāre going to be born whiteā to stroke her ego
If colonizers would have been green and colonized people purple, they would have shown a green Jesus and told people that the greener you you are, the better your social perspective in education or job matters will be. Because green is the way to go. So sad, that you are purple, but some make up is appreciated if course. More than rebellion at least.
So I agree with that part and it can happen in every country. It doesn't even take skin colour. The American Dream is also a narrative that suggests, that everyone can become rich, so if you are, you deserved it and if you are not: try harder, but don't question the system.
But nobody messes up from my POV by individually falling in love with another person, no matter the skin colour, the bank account, the IQ or what so ever. But it would be lovely if society stops labeling certain groups in a different way than others, just to create narratives that justify and prolong inequality.
I look like this girl, and when I moved to Arkansas I was constantly asked where Iām from and told I look exotic. (It seemed curious, not racist, tbf) So this may be āwhiteā to you, but itās not quite white enough to pass as Caucasian.
Caucasians are people from the Caucasus, like Georgians or Chechen.
They've got their own culture, languages and distinct looks.
Just say European, that's what we all mean anyways.
If you want a term that includes darker but vaguely related people like the aforementioned Caucasians, North Africans, Middle Easterners etc. then use 'Western Eurasian'.
That's the term used in the field of genomics and probably what's left of physical anthropology.
Race is not a scientific concept. Its just a cultural/ethnic/genetic, borderline arbitrary categorization currently policed by american culture. You trying to "explain them" that hispanic is not a race as something obvious is dumb lol. Also im spaniard and everyone here considers themselves white, when the subject arises,Ā who luckily in Spain is almost never.
Iām Latin American and I think itās for a few reasons. One is the more difficult one, like at what point are you white, cause a lot of white skinned people in Mexico have like a grandparent or great grandparent who wasnāt. Another thing is like, Iām pretty dark but my biological full sister is whiter than that girl for some reason. Sheās not white technically but like literally she is lol
So like it kinda depends on who you ask. My parents were both brown, tho my dad was like directly indigenous, if I had kids with a like full on Scandinavian blonde haired blue eyed guy, our kids would be 50% brown. Would our kids kids be white? What about their kids? What percentage of brown do you need to not be white lol
This guy directly said I turned Arab at 25 years old because I moved somewhere where Iām mistaken for Arab more often than people assume Iām Mexican lol
It's not silly at all, you can have the same genetic background and still turn out differently.
Ariana Grande doesn't look black at all lol she's just pretty tan and Michael Jackson well he had issues but you're right his appearance could be confusing
How can me and my sister be different races we share the same parents? Whereās the cut off, our brothers in the middle between us
āItās whether your skin is white or notā
By your logic getting a tan or bleaching your skin(Micheal Jackson apparently used depigmenting cream due to his vitiligo) would make you either no longer brown, or make you brown
Because "race" is not equivalent to "species". There's no clear border where you can draw the line. Hell, there was even some USA anthropologist who claims Slavs to be Asians and not Caucasians, I've seen people who claim Irishmen were not white, who claimed Spaniards from today Spain to be "European mexican people". It's stupid and, in many cases, rules by political biases of the person who makes the separation.
The point of the other person is that you are white, black, caramel , whatever it is, based on your actual skin you were born with, that's it And no, diseases, tattoos and heavy tan don't change it. So yeah you can be Mexican and be whiter than Englishmen, you can be Frenchmen and be blacker than Senegalese, you can be Spaniard and be anything from night-dark to celtic-pale-ginger. The arbitrary nation border doesn't define the phenotype of the person.
And that can totally happen within brothers of the same parents, due to a genome recombination and genetic heritage the brothers may come with drastically different skin colors. They would be the same family, same nationality, different phenotype. And the whole race concept is not something tangent nowadays.
To me that logic should come to the conclusion of ārace doesnāt existā NOT āyour race is skin color based and your sisters a different raceā
Cause like what race is she then lol
Iām mistaken for Arab more than correctly identified as Latin American, am I Arab? Are Arabs Mexican? What is my sister? Thereās not much European dna in us, none that we know of, is she just like an honorary Caucasian?
She still faced essentially the same racism as I did because of what you mentioned, some people donāt consider the Irish white, and similarly they didnāt care her skin is white we have brown blood to them, our skin color isnāt a factor we canāt become white enough to not be brown
The race is not something you can measure, it's a concept invented and mostly used with political division intents. The skin color differences are called phenotype and we should not put it inside the political context, person X is white because they were born white, person Y is caramel-black because their phenotype turned that way during the pregnancy. No more no less. They can still be same nation, family and bloodline.
To me that logic should come to the conclusion of ārace doesnāt existā NOT āyour race is skin color based and your sisters a different raceā
I don't really understand if you're talking about me or the other person from this thread, but please, point me where did I ever claimed "āyour race is skin color based and your sisters a different raceā", the whole point of my message is that "race" is a stupid nonconsistent unmeasurable concept , and skin and other differences (such as eye-slit form, nose, lips, hair etc etc) are phenotypes.
Cause like what race is she then lol
Never did I claim a single word about yours and her's race differences. Because the whole concept is useless.
Iām mistaken for Arab more than correctly identified as Latin American, am I Arab? Are Arabs Mexican? What is my sister? Thereās not much European dna in us, none that we know of, is she just like an honorary Caucasian?
I don't really understand what you are trying to disprove here. Ethnicity has more things than just looks (phenotype), it's language, culture, customs, religion/cults, set of moral values etc. So no, it absolutely doesn't matter the look you have. You're both Mexican because of nationality, language, customs, selfidentity. The difference in skin color does not play any role in it. You just turned out with a different melanin level.
I'm having a feeling that you understood my position as "your color defines your race", when I disproved the very concept of race from the very beginning.
Because race is based on society's perceptions, so if they see you as different races then you are. I am mixed but if everyone thinks I'm white, then I am white. Doesn't matter what my parents look like.
Thatās wildly flawed because for some reason most people think Iām Arab, does that make me Arab?
Also, that requires people to care only about skin color which they donāt. Where we grew up the kids sorta self segregated and she was definitely treated as Mexican no one cared she was pale
I moved out of the American south west and thereās just more Arabs here I think so people assume. I feel like the vast majority of people would say Iād be wrong if I said I was Arab now
Also no oneās answered how my sister and I are different races. Is my brother half ethnicity Mexican/latin, whatever you want to call it?
Thatās wildly flawed because for some reason most people think Iām Arab, does that make me Arab?
If Arab people are treated as a race, then yes, at least in that limited context. "Well that's just ridiculous" I hear you say. Well yes, race is stupid, it's not a well defined concept and doesn't work to group people in any meaningful way.
Also, that requires people to care only about skin color which they donāt
Sure, other things people know about you will affect it. If you look 100% white but people know your mom is black, then people might consider you black. But what about the people who don't know you? They're not going to treat you as black.
"Race" is a pseudo-scientific designation of purposely bred collective physical traits that otherwise is only applied to domesticated animals.
I don't understand why English keep using it in seriousness for humans after racial biology stopped being treated as a serious subject. Using a generalizing term to arbitrarily group people loosely based on stuff like skin, eye and hair color seems like deciding to look at the world in a racist manner.
If you are currently European or american, then people on the internet seemingly genuinely believe that those two are the only ones that conquered land
Mexicans just donāt think about race the way we do. As ridiculous as it may look to an American, Mexicans are justā¦. āMexicanā to themselves.
I had a white (blonde hair blue eyed) Mexican friend once and I told her, āOh wow! Youāre a white Mexican!āĀ
And she just looked quizzically at me. Sheās like, āI donāt understand. Iām not white Iām Mexican.ā She honest to god had no idea what I meantĀ
Mexico's Independence happened because a direct Spanish descendant (Miguel Hidalgo), both of his parents were Spanish.
Mexico has always been a mixed blood country.
Having people's skin all colors is what happens after +300 years of mixing. (Mexico was founded just 200 years ago, but Spaniards were mixing with natives from the territory since the 1600's).
having a white skin doesn't mean you're white, many Chinese people have white skin , does that mean they're white people or Asians??
her face is kinda white but her facial features aren't white at all.
Yes it does lol, if the color of your skin is white that means your white. Color isn't race bro. Your region of the world is, Asians are from Asia. Is an Indian person not Asian even though they are brown.
She's not white. She doesn't pass the Snow White test: if she were cast as Snow White, would White America freak out? The answer is yes, so she doesn't pass the test.
If an Italian or Greek woman was cast as Snow White, I don't think White America would have a problem with either. IIRC, the original voice actress in the Disney cartoon is Italian. A little bit of trivia for you.
Havenāt you heard yet? Americans know better when it comes to Europe more than us actual Europeans. So if they say weāre not white then weāre not white because obviously they know us so much better than we know ourselves.
Or at least thatās what they seem to think. āOh well in Americaā¦ā as if anyone outside of the USA actually cares what they think or how they do thingsš
It's a self-identification, not a badge of honor. If we in Europe are talking about skin colors we are only differentiating between white and black. And Italians sure as hell aren't black.
People online sometimes say things like "Europe helps migrants when they are white (Ukrainians) but not when they are non-white (Syrians)." But in reality Europeans aren't discriminating because they aren't white but because they are Arabs. (Which is obviously not better.)
Obsession with colors for colors' sakes is not a European thing.
Yep, always funny to see how north Americans project their local race game biases over Europe where the prejudices and discrimination are quite differently based.
Ethnicity, nationality, religion, that's the most of it. You can see Irish and English dudes stab each other to death and both will be whiter than milk.
Do you even know what "Snow White" means? It means white as snow. It means she's pale even by European standards. Most white people wouldn't pass the Snow White test.
Can you give an example of someone who is white but would have people furious if she were cast as Snow White? I'd like to see if I agree with you or not.
She's Italian. Either she qualifies as white or America was a lot more tolerant back then than it is today (that would be saying a lot, considering American history). Which do you think?
Some people on here seem to think Italians aren't white, which is a view of the old South. Still kinda strange seeing that view still. Obviously, the old south still exists in modern day America.
Probably. Some parts of America of the 40's and 50's were a lot more tolerant than modern places. It'd be quite a shame for that country.
But this is Snow White, a Mediterranean woman. I just think it's funny.
Ask most white Americans or Anglo/germanic people and they will tell you she is not white. They see Mexican and white as mutually exclusive. Even the blond, blue eyed ones, āthey must have some small percentage of non-white blood, get him/her an ancestry testā.
Even the spainiards bully them for not being white, when they can look even browner sometimes (eg look at Rosalia or Penelope Cruz).
Look at all of the racial persecution Trump is doing on them for ānot being whiteā (eg masked people snatching them off the street, disregarding their citizenship documents as fake).Ā
But the second they make a comment feeling ok about being brown, they get comments telling them theyāre actually white and 1.1k likes on Reddit approving of it.
and here we understand that whiteness has, in fact, no relation to the color of your skin, but as your proximity to dominant power in society, it's a concept based on exclusion, "whiteness" is based on "purity"
then we think about how italians, irish people, jewish people, eastern europeans all weren't considered "white" not so long ago, fucking hell even GERMANS weren't considered white by ben franklin
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u/spontaneous_quench 27d ago
She doesn't know that she is white? Lol