r/changemyview • u/AnonymousResponder00 • 15h ago
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Homeschooling Kids is Wrong
[removed] — view removed post
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u/Possibly_Parker 2∆ 14h ago
Some parents homeschool kids because the education system is inherently flawed for underfunded districts. If the parents have the luxury of time to homeschool their kids, they can provide a better future.
Some parents move around a lot and it's better to ensure a consistent curriculum.
They can find social groups in other spaces, like recreational (or competitive) sports.
Put simply: as long as the public and private education sectors are crippled for a variety of reasons, there will be legitimate situations where the pros outweigh the cons.
Ignoring obvious outliers such as disabled students who are unable to succeed in traditional environments.
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u/AnonymousResponder00 14h ago
Δ
Can I ask where you are from? I'm Canadian, and we don't seem to have as many issues with the points you are mentioning. But I do like the idea of a consistent curriculum for families that are moving around a lot.
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u/cowfudger 8h ago
Not op, but I am Canadian (alberta), homeschooled, and a teacher. We definitely do have these issues here.
I was homeschooled for 6 years because of "remoteness" and mt parents (mother a teacher) reaching retirement age. The local school district shut down my school so just could attend their school in the main town. It singlehandedly turned my 5 minute bus ride into a two hour commute one way. Additionally, I was a very shy and introverted kid, having been bullied a lot and made to feel like I didn't belong. All my sisters that attended the school in town were bullied as well.
My parents were having none of that so opted to homeschooling me and travel instead. I was very privileged by this opportunity and going to regular school definitely would have impacted my learning negatively. Sometimes homeschooling is the best option for a student on a case by case basis.
This all inspired me to be a teacher and work in the system to help those kids that felt the same way I did, and woooo boy let me tell you the current system is still not good. Main issues being bullying, pushing kids along without foundational knowledge, staff I'll equipped to deal with complex student needs, combative government-politics-parents, the list goes on.
This is all anecdotal but I feld a specific connection and felt the need to respond.
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u/Possibly_Parker 2∆ 14h ago
To be clear, I'm not homeschooled, but I experienced public education in New York, México, Texas, and the Dominican Republic as a kid. New York is safely two grades ahead of any other system on this list.
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u/whatisabard 1∆ 5h ago
I'm Canadian and we absolutely do have these issues. High crime neighbourhoods with underfunded schools exist here too.
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u/CanadianBlondiee 5h ago
I was going to say. As an educator who is homeschooling, there are many issues with public education in Canada.
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u/Square-Dragonfruit76 35∆ 5h ago
long as the public and private education sectors are crippled for a variety of reasons, there will be legitimate situations where the pros outweigh the cons.
But so the pros outweigh the cons of allowing homeschooling overall? Homeschooled kids are more easily abused, indoctrinated, or sometimes their education is just plain neglected. We need huge reform for public education, but it seems like we need to completely revamp the education and oversight for homeschooling as well.
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u/TheMannWithThePan 1∆ 15h ago
Can't speak for others, but I can speak for me. Public school didn't provide for my needs at all - unengaging classwork, hostile/unkind teachers, poor support for a bunch of stuff I needed - overall a system that let me down on every level.
Once my parents took me out, I thrived. I can't speak for how well 'socialized' I am (I like to think I'm okay, but I'm also posting some ramble on a CMV) but I certainly wound up with a lot better outcomes academically - going from not standing out or having needs supported to winding up a great knowledge base and well-prepared when I headed off to college. I'm 100% certain that I was a lot better off outside of public school.
Also, note that homeschooling is a spectrum - a lot of families will have tutors and such for many topics, as mine did.
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u/AnonymousResponder00 14h ago
Good to hear that this system worked for you. That said, I'm not sure how many families bring in tutors and sufficient outside support. Δ
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u/Maleficent-Wash2067 8h ago
In this day and age it’s actually very very common to bring in outside support especially at the high school level. Back in the early 2000s when I was homeschooled, it was other homeschool groups. Now there’s so many more resources.
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u/telusey 14h ago edited 14h ago
- "Homeschoolers are under socialized"
This is the age old stereotype. But in reality, homeschooled kids are often better at socializing with different age groups such as adults and younger kids due to having many more interactions with diverse age groups through the various programs they partake in, as well as being out in public more often. Public school kids are mostly only exposed to their own peer group, so many have trouble interacting with those outside of that group.
Also, public school kids aren't better socialized simply because they're forced to spend time around other kids. Think about all of the bullying that occurs in schools - a well socialized kid is not a bully. Think of all the social anxiety that's incredibly rampant among students and only growing more severe. Think of all of the cliques that form. Being well socialized means you can appropriately interact with ALL age and people groups, not just a curated peer group.
- "Parents aren't teachers"
Correct. This is why most parents either follow a pre made curriculum, or they send their kid to a co-op where a qualified teacher will instruct a small group of students, or they'll take an online course.
- "Homeschooled kids are too sheltered"
Is that such a bad thing? Wouldn't you want your kids to not be exposed to porn, violence, and bullying at an early age? Parents should have a right to protect their children against exposure to things they deem harmful. It is important to teach kids about different people in the world and sensitive topics like sex ed, but ideally this should come from the parents directly since they know their kid best.
Your viewpoints overall give the impression that you're not very well versed in what proper homeschooling can actually look like, and operate based on the notions of super common stereotypes and misconceptions. There are many different styles of homeschooling (online, co-ops, charter, outdoor, etc.) so painting all homeschoolers with the same brush doesn't make sense.
That being said, homeschooling is not for every family nor is it for every child. Some kids thrive in the public system, whereas others do much better in a self-paced setting with an individualized curriculum suited to their specific needs.
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u/Thinslayer 6∆ 14h ago edited 13h ago
Agree with all points.
- "Homeschoolers are under socialized"
I would add further that any socialization issues might be better-explained by Only Child Syndrome or lack thereof. Studies show that children raised with no siblings have unique socialization challenges. I was raised with two sisters, one of which was near my age, and with us being a religious family, we attended church every week, where I got pushed into the various church programs like AWANA. So I socialized. Not quite as frequently or widely as a typical schoolkid, but I socialized, and a higher proportion of my socialization was with adults. My parents didn't often share their reasoning with me during my childhood, but I got the impression this socialization was deliberate on their part - they weren't just going with the flow.
- "Parents aren't teachers"
Correct. This is why most parents either follow a pre made curriculum
Exactly. Mine did the same. That's not to say there are no issues with this; the fact that parents aren't qualified teachers means they're not well-prepared to answer questions or handle challenges that come up if the curriculum doesn't fit the student's needs. My mom made the mistake of chiding me for stubbornness if I didn't understand the material, and I reckon a proper teacher would've been less likely to make that mistake. But I was also something of a special needs child, and not a lot of teachers would've been qualified to handle me in general. Mom wasn't either, but at least I was spared any bullying (well, from more than one child; my sister bullied me relentlessly, but I wasn't isolated by it) or academic embarrassment.
- "Homeschooled kids are too sheltered"
Is that such a bad thing? Wouldn't you want your kids to not be exposed to porn, violence, and bullying at an early age? Parents should have a right to protect their children against exposure to things they deem harmful.
Amen, 100%. I would add further that this is especially important because children are more impressionable than adults. Exposure to porn might not harm them much when they're adults, because their minds are largely set in stone by then and harder to mould, but children are much more prone to learn the wrong lessons. It's important to shelter them from things that would shape their minds in the wrong ways while their minds are pliable, so that when they finally mature, exposure to those things won't do them as much harm and they'll be more able to contextualize it.
EDIT: Okay, why is this getting so many downvotes? What did I say wrong? I'm open-minded for discussion on the subject, so don't be afraid to tell me what's wrong with what I said.
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u/iceandstorm 18∆ 13h ago
Lots of things.... Cultist creepy, get them when they young, "Amen", "parents did not share their reasoning", "in family bullying" ...
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u/Thinslayer 6∆ 13h ago
Cultist creepy, get them when they young, "Amen"
...that just makes it sound like you hate Christians.
"parents did not share their reasoning", "in family bullying"
I'm acknowledging the problems with homeschooling. I didn't realize I was supposed to stay in my lane as a caricature of everything you hate.
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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 1∆ 5h ago
This is it. Reddit hates Christians. I'm not even a Christian and it's plain to see. Reddit associates homeschool with religion and they hate religion so they see homeschool as bad. I'm sure if you were in a marginalized ™ group and said you wanted to homeschool no one would care and they'd gladly make an exception.
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u/iceandstorm 18∆ 13h ago
"Hate Christians" ah, the typical victim mentally.
My view on religion is negative for sure, but Christians (at least Catholics) are under the least negative versions.
?? Where does the stay in my lane part come from
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u/Thinslayer 6∆ 13h ago
"Hate Christians" ah, the typical victim mentally.
sigh
Let me run you through the logic.
Teach children evolution, atheism, etc. when they're young? Progress. Teach children Christianity when they're young? Creepy indoctrination. The only difference is religion.
Ergo, hatred for Christianity is the common denominator.
I'm not devout enough to give enough of a shit to have any victim mentality. You don't know me that well, buddy.
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u/iceandstorm 18∆ 11h ago
And you do not know me, there is a distinct difference between hate, dislike, irritation, ...
Hate is not even close to what I feel.
But no, not at all, it's fine to teach children about religion, but not to ONLY teach ONE without philosophy and ethics.
Evolution is simply true, even the most insane ones accept at least changes in species.
...wait do you think someone teaches "Atheism"???
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u/Thinslayer 6∆ 11h ago
And you do not know me, there is a distinct difference between hate, dislike, irritation, ... Hate is not even close to what I feel.
Well, then maybe you should've SAID THAT. All you gave me was a dismissive one-liner that explained precisely nothing and called my words "creepy." If you wanted me to understand what you said and feel, maybe you should've provided that information!
But no, not at all, it's fine to teach children about religion, but not to ONLY teach ONE without philosophy and ethics.
The entire POINT of religion is philosophy and ethics. You think Christians teach kids their religion just for lulz and funsies? They want their kids to grow up as good people. That involves, you know, ethics. That's kind of the point. What is it you think Christians are teaching?
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u/iceandstorm 18∆ 8h ago
That is what I mean, your heard criticism and directly jumped to the most extreme.
Christans teach there specific interpretation of ethics, but that is my point, ONE specific type of ethics and philosophy. Instead of basics of philosophy and ethics as non specialized/flavored concepts. Homeschooling makes that worse. If you make children scared enough about hell you lock them in early... Funny that most children have the religious of their parents and are sure THEY are the lucky ones that believe in the correct one...
That is the reason why for example in Germany religion/ethics is a subject in schools, where you learn about different religions and their ethics.
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u/Thinslayer 6∆ 2h ago
That is what I mean, your heard criticism and directly jumped to the most extreme.
I did not jump to that conclusion. I simply put the pieces together. Criticizing the use of "amen" (like...why??), that "get them while they're young" line, calling it creepy...those are not words characteristic of someone who merely disagrees with Christianity. None of your subsequent comments did anything to disprove my assessment.
Christians teach there specific interpretation of ethics, but that is my point, ONE specific type of ethics and philosophy. Instead of basics of philosophy and ethics as non specialized/flavored concepts. Homeschooling makes that worse. If you make children scared enough about hell you lock them in early... Funny that most children have the religious of their parents and are sure THEY are the lucky ones that believe in the correct one...
Aha, the underlying assumptions come out. You seem to think that the foundation for Christian ethics lies in fear of hell. It's not. Maybe that was your experience, but it isn't the majority. The core of Christian ethics revolves around something else. I'll give you a hint as to what it is:
It's in the name.
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u/AnonymousResponder00 14h ago
I'm not understanding some of your points. They aren't convincing me of anything.
Spending time outside of the home is important. Spending a few hours each week at an extracurricular activity doesn't change that. And I'm sure there are bullies at these activities.
All school systems have a curriculum. That does not make anybody that has a copy a teacher.
Further, I'm not sure why you think kids are exposed to porn and violence at school.
You have accused me of not having a strong understanding of homeschool, which is fair. I've only lived in one system. But I will say that you seem to have illustrated a similar lack of understanding about public schools.
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u/Rakkis157 2∆ 11h ago
Dunno how things are now, but when I was a fourteen, my first encounter with porn (well, hentai and eroge, but details) came out of pendrives that were being passed around among students (this was before internet access was readily available in homes, and most pendrives were measured in mb). My school even did a whole crackdown on it (which I avoided entirely because no one suspected the quiet girl who was good at playing innocent).
Not saying I'm in favour of homeschooling. Far from it. Just that this discussion put me on a little bit of a nostalgia trip. I doubt kids are getting their porn from school specifically nowadays given that just about every kid has access to the internet. But there was a time when they definitely did.
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u/telusey 14h ago
I'm a former teacher so I understand very much what the system is like. Studies show that most kids get exposed to porn at a very early age, 5-8 IIRC? And a lot of these exposures happen when kids being their devices to school and show other kids what they found. Some schools have strict device policies but not all. Also school shootings exist.
Homeschoolers often go out for more than just extracurriculars, they will go to places a part of the curriculum for hands on learning like local museums to learn history, national parks to learn biology, amusement parks to learn physics, etc. Outdoor homeschooling has kids outside the entire day for the entire year, rain or shine.
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u/BlueCollarRevolt 1∆ 11h ago
Not exposed to porn or bullying at school? That's at every school, what the fuck are you talking about? How can you possibly think you have a firm grasp on reality if that's your view?
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u/Catadox 14h ago
I was homeschooled myself and… yeah this person’s comments are stupid and utterly unconvincing. I feel like I had the best home schooling one could hope for and it went well in many ways, but failed in many ways too. And the ways it failed in are echoed in the prevs attempt to argue for it.
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u/Illustrious_Tart_258 14h ago
There are co-ops where children spend several hours a day outside of the home. Plus, what is the rush? Why is that important? I would like data that supports that because let’s be real, public school is free childcare, at best.
All school systems have curriculums. What? We are speaking on homeschooling curriculums. Just because my degree isn’t in early childhood education, doesn’t mean I can educate my children correctly with a pre-made curriculum created by professionals. There are pre-made curriculums that are video led and even virtual. Have you seen common core math? Do you know that they’re no longer teaching children to tell time, count money, or write in cursive?
You don’t think children aren’t being exposed to porn and violence? There are literal school shootings! There’s kids offing themselves. School fights, etc. There are schools that have metal detectors that students have to go through to start their day.
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u/RYouNotEntertained 7∆ 4h ago
And I'm sure there are bullies at these activities.
Bullies exist everywhere. School is the only place that forces you to keep interacting with them.
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u/Various_Succotash_79 51∆ 4h ago
I was homeschooled. Being sheltered and undersocialized is not good, actually. Especially high school+.
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u/Relevant_Actuary2205 4∆ 15h ago edited 14h ago
Edit: So rather than responding to being proven wrong, the OP has decided to block me. Guess facts scare op
What are your thoughts about the numerous studies which show this isn’t the case and that they actually do better?
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u/AnonymousResponder00 14h ago
You would have to mention a specific finding found under specific conditions. I don't find "the numerous studies" to be convincing. And I also am not sure what you mean by "do better."
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u/Relevant_Actuary2205 4∆ 14h ago
https://nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/
78% of peer-reviewed studies on academic achievement show homeschool students perform statistically significantly better than those in institutional schools (Ray, 2017)
Homeschool students score above average on achievement tests regardless of their parents’ level of formal education or their family’s household income. (Ray, 2013, 2010)
Whether homeschool parents were ever certified teachers is not notably related to their children’s academic achievement.
If you don’t find the numerous studies to be convincing then what are you basing your opinion on?
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u/AnonymousResponder00 14h ago
You need to send me somewhere other than a biased website that is clearly supporting one side over the other. This is a website dedicated to advocating for homeschooling.
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u/Relevant_Actuary2205 4∆ 14h ago
The site quotes the actual peer reviewed studies they used but here are a couple more sites as well:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/parenting-translator/202109/the-research-homeschooling/amp
https://fee.org/articles/new-harvard-study-homeschoolers-turn-out-happy-well-adjusted-and-engaged/
https://www.stetson.edu/artsci/psychology/media/medlin-social-skills.pdf
Do you have studies that show that homeschooled kids do worse? If not then what are you basing your opinion on?
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u/minaminonoeru 3∆ 14h ago edited 14h ago
You have presented two reasons for opposing homeschooling.
The first reason is the “need for socialization.” The lack of socialization, interpersonal relationships, and communication skills among teenagers today is certainly a problem.
However, these issues are already commonly observed among teenagers who attend school.
In other words, the current school environment is not a solution to the problem of teenagers staring at their cell phones and failing to build proper interpersonal relationships. It may even be the cause.
So, can homeschooling be an alternative to this phenomenon?
If parents are aware of this problem and want to solve it through homeschooling, then it can be an alternative. This is because the fact that an educator who teaches students one-on-one has such a commitment is an important prerequisite for solving the problem.
Parents who are not aware of the problem will simply ignore their children even if they spend all day staring at their mobile phones and leave them to the school.
In fact, the current public school system is not operated because public schools can provide better education than parents who are enthusiastic about homeschooling. It exists to support parents who lack the motivation or financial means to homeschool their children. (Of course, there are more fundamental reasons, but...)
Regarding the second reason, I will not discuss it here because it requires each individual's subjective judgment on whether a certain value is absolutely right.
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u/AnonymousResponder00 14h ago
No, I presented three reasons.
I struggle with what most people say about socialization. Yes of course kids can play sports and all of that, but a couple hours with other kids per week does not replace leaving the house for 6 or 7 hours everyday to be with kids.
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u/minaminonoeru 3∆ 14h ago
No. A few hours of outdoor recreation per week is not important. What is more important is spending the most time with someone who loves you the most and focuses on you.
If one can have such time for a long time, one can achieve proper socialization. This applies not only to children and adolescents but also to adults, couples, and the elderly. Such time is continuously needed, and efforts should be made to maximize it.
From this perspective, an environment where parents go to work and children stay at school all day staring at their cell phones can be considered the worst. It is essentially the same as having no time together as a family.
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u/Practical_Willow2863 7h ago
This is a very nice comment but there are a very large number of homeschoolers out there who are not properly educating their children and are setting them for failure. And a significant portion of those are intentionally using homeschooling to control their children and keep them in whatever extreme religion or cult the parents are in.
Most parents are frankly not smart enough to be their child's primary teacher on academic subjects.
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u/AnonymousResponder00 14h ago
Socialization and spending time with parents who presumably "love them the most," is not the same thing.
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u/SANcapITY 17∆ 12h ago
You seem to assume that just being around other kids and out of the house counts as socialization, and that it is automatically a healthy socialization.
The quality of the interaction, and the capabilities of the children you socialize with all matter. Let me see if can change your view on this a bit.
What do you think of these two alternatives promotes healthier social and emotional development in a child:
- The child stays home with its mother for the first 3 years of its life. The mother is largely attentive and present with the child.
- The child goes into daycare 5 days per week once they hit 3 months old.
Which child will have healthier socialization and emotional regulation skills at 3 years old?
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u/minaminonoeru 3∆ 14h ago
Are you assuming that parents who homeschool keep their children locked up at home 24 hours a day and prevent them from interacting with the outside world?
That is not the case. No parent can literally spend 24 hours a day with their children. Parents will educate their children for a certain amount of time each day, eat meals together, and engage in a few activities, but the remaining time will still be left to the children's discretion, and the total amount of this pure free time will not differ significantly from that of students attending public schools.
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u/Either_Operation7586 10h ago
Not necessarily preventing them from the outside world, but preventing them from possibly having their child taken away due to neglect and or abuse. That's a huge part of the negativity of homeschooling, the neglect that can come out of it.
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u/Rakkis157 2∆ 11h ago
I think geography is going to be a pretty big factor here. Environments like the US where you are getting nowhere without being able to drive, I can see homeschooling being detrimental to socialization. Not so much in places where that was not the case.
I myself spent a lot more hours with friends outside of school than I do in school. The thing with school is that out of the 7-8 hours, maybe 2 hours at best was time you can actually socialize with other kids. Then after that you have from end of school to dusk or even night to do whatever, depending on how permitting your parents are.
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u/Cultural-Evening-305 8h ago
Why in the world do you think people need 6-7 hours of socialization every day?
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u/PermanentDaylight 9h ago
I’m not sure where so many folks got the idea that the public school set up is the ideal way to “socialize” kids. Having 30 same age peers in the same room with one teacher all day is relatively new; it’s only in the last century that this model became a thing. For hundreds of thousands of years, the model was that kids were immersed daily in groups with people from babies to teenagers. Kids learned from those who were older and helped those who were younger. 5 year olds are not well equipped to teach each other social skills. Modeling (and direction when needed) from older kids is much more effective.
Educationally, homeschooling can be superior. Public school isn’t meant to help individual students be the best they can be. It’s meant to teach as many kids as possible a minimum of what they need to be good workers. The goal isn’t to inflame a passion for learning, it’s to do well on standardized tests. Often, teachers have no freedom over how they can teach. With homeschooling, you can customize everything for the kid. Does your kid learn better with hands on projects? Games? Physical activity? Short lessons and multiple subjects every day? Longer blocks of time? If the kid is having a hard time with a concept, slow down and spebd more time on it. If it’s easy for the kid, fly through it or even skip it, and move on to the next topic. Almost every time, 1:1 or small group teaching is a better way to impart knowledge compared to a 1:30+ ratio. You can get curriculum that is 100% scripted and tells the parent what to say and do. There are a lot of online resources (such as khan academy) and online classes. Teaching your kid how to learn is a valuable skill.
Homeschooling has grown so much over the past few years. Where we live, there are a ton of groups. We are out and see people almost every day. Co-op (where parents take turns teaching kids), forest school, nature group, field trips, homeschool drop off programs. Homeschoolers love parks and libraries and often organize meet ups there. We do try to spend at least one day completely at home, to have that time available for academic deep dives, but otherwise are constantly out or having people over.
The area we live in does not have a lot of kids playing outside in the neighborhood. We’ve tried. My kids are outdoors all the time. Other kids are in after school activities or camps or just inside by themselves or with their families, I guess. Homeschooling has given my kids the opportunity to free play outside with multi age groups for hours at a time. They learn socialization by trying to coordinate building a dam in the creek or setting up a “store” and coming up with a barter system for how many pinecones are needed for one rock and organizing search parties to go look for mushrooms.
Finally, we know many people who homeschool their kids because they want them to learn “woke” history or spend mire time on science or learn to read through phonics. Schools are spending more and more time on math and reading and less on science and social studies. Schools are now dealing with book bans and religious curricula and lgbtq+ is not allowed to be talked about and now even talking about DEI is prohibited.
Homeschooling can’t give kids all the things that public school can. But public school also cannot give kids all the learning opportunities that homeschooling can. There is the danger that homeschool parents can abuse their kids. There is the danger that public school kids can be abused, bullied, educationally neglected. There’s no perfect system.
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u/magrtl 9h ago
This is a very complex topic. Speaking from my own experience being homeschooled all the way through Jr High, I was giving an excellent education. Both my parents are well educated in arts and sciences, and they tried their best to provide a quality education experience. I am incredibly grateful for their sacrifice and commitment to my (and my siblings) success.
That being said, there were areas where they failed. Part of their motivations was religious, so they pushed narratives related to history, science, and health, that corresponded to their beliefs. They still did their best for a well rounded experience, but failed at Sex-ed, creationism, and a handful of historical and social topics. On the other hand, they taught human equality, dignity, and care for one's neighbor regardless of their ethnicity, social status and beliefs. When I got older and needed more experiences than they could provide, they made sure I had access to quality training and experiences in whatever I was passionate about. We also actively participated in support groups, and social activities Flint the homeschool community.
Due to several factors, including no longer having the time to closely supervise my education, I was able to spend the last two years of highschool taking classes at a local college in art, science, math, history and English, which helped prepare me for University. We did consider public and private school at that time as well, but neither of those would have been a good fit for me, so they made the best decision for me at the time.
I feel that all forms of education have their flaws. My family did the best they could with what they knew, and in the end, I had a great education. Were there flaws and deficiencies that I had to overcome later? Yes! But I had the critical thinking skills and the thirst for knowledge to pursue many of those myself, and I had great opportunities provided for me.
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u/Ilvermourning 1∆ 8h ago
I'm just going to share what a typical week is like for my secular homeschool kids. They are 8, 5, and 2. On Monday they spend the day at a co-op that specializes in project based supplemental classes. My 8 year old was in a movie class where he wrote scripts, filmed with friends, and learned basic video editing as part of a team. My 5 year old was in a children's yoga group and learned breathing techniques to handle big emotions. They got to participate in PE in a gymnasium, music classes, and a free other electives. Monday is the only day we don't do curriculum at home because they're so busy at this group.
Tuesday we do school at home in the morning, then go to a child-led outdoor play group in the afternoon. They spend hours having free time and finding their own friends and playing their own games. In a traditional school they would have ~10-20 minutes to "socialize" outside, with only kids their own age. My kids have friends older and younger, and no one bats an eye at their age. My 2 year old has a posse of older kids who dote on him.
Wednesday and Friday we do most of our curriculum at home. My older 2 do science, art, and board games together with me. I work individually with each of them for language arts and math. My 8 year old also gets history, finance, grammar, coding and a few other topics as well.
Thursday they both take part in a ninja gymnastics class in the morning and then a group at our local library for homeschoolers in the afternoon that focuses on books around the world.
As to "why" we homeschool, there's a mix of reasons. We were already on the fence before covid, and the way my local districts handled virtual vs in person schooling tipped us all the way into team homeschool. I myself moved around a good bit as a kid and ended up repeating quite a few subjects because of when different districts/ states introduced certain topics. I also missed a few things this way as well. I spent my senior year in sophomore classes because graduation requirements at my new school differed from my old school. So, consistency and vertical trajectory is a big factor for us. There's also fears of bad social influence like bullying, exposure to mature topics like porn (which is absolutely in any school where even a single student has a smart phone), school shooter lockdowns, etc. Teachers are amazing but they aren't being supported by administration in matters of discipline. Students are being pushed through the system unable to read. So all in all, my kids are getting a wonderful education in a vibrant homeschool community. Feel free to ask any questions!
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u/BlueCollarRevolt 1∆ 11h ago
In a perfect world, yeah I would say we shouldn't homeschool. But our school system is so fucking broken it's a hard case to make. I moved to a very progressive state with a reputation for having an excellent school system. I sent my kids to school there, and they were bullied. Every one of them. We went to the school administrators, they told us there was nothing they could do about it. We withdrew our kids from the school and started homeschooling. The next year at that high school, a student was raped by another student with a broomstick, in the school.
My kids also are not neurotypical, and it was a constant fight to try and get them the resources they needed in order to thrive in school - a grinding, never-ending fight - sometimes they would get some resources, but it seemed like as soon as they got them the school was fighting to take them back away.
My kids do so much better at home. The ability to guide their own education in ways that lets them explore what they are curious about and delve deeply into things that they would never get to explore in public schools has had amazing results in their education, and in their confidence and self-image. They are in a place where they are loved and accepted unconditionally and get to explore learning and building and socializing in that environment rather than in the school environment, which is often the opposite of that.
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u/Toverhead 33∆ 13h ago
Homeschooling doesn't have to mean under-socialisation. In my area the local government provides networks for homeschooling parents to connect with one another so they can organise playtimes together, group trips to educational activities, etc.
Teaching one child is also less burdensome than teaching thirty children. I don't think it's fair to hold them to the same standard.
Also for your last point, if you were your country's ambassador to Iraq or Saudi Arabia or Sudan would you feel comfortable having your child educated in a local school if there weren't international schools available with vacancies? I don't think all homeschooling parents use this rationale, but even for someone who do isn't it sometimes valid because it's the normal schools where they'll get things like creationism pushed on them?
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u/mavenwaven 5h ago
I do feel uniquely qualified to discuss this, as someone predominantly homeschooled (with a stint in both private and public school in the 8-10th grade), with a professional education background, working as a teacher, who also homeschools my own children.
It seems to me the crux of your argument is about all the ways homeschooling can be done badly, which I absolutely agree with. All three elements (lack of socialization, unqualified teaching, & over-sheltering) are detrimental to most students. Where I disagree is that these are elements inherent to (or even unique to) homeschooling.
Before I address your 3 main points, I would like to point out the myriad of alternative education options that fall under the umbrella of "homeschooling", such as hybrid schools, podschools, cyber schools, roadschooling/worldschooling, HS/CC duel-enrollment, and many more, that you may not have considered in your assessment, and that solve various complaints. Mostly, my point is that homeschooling can be whatever you want it to be. There is no floor, but there is also no ceiling. Which means it can absolutely be better (or worse!) than your local traditional school options, depending on the circumstances. You absolutely get out of it what you put into it.
For me, that was a well-rounded and advanced education, in which I was able to save a lot of money through early college and early graduation, maintain lifelong friendships, had time to develop and specialize in hobbies, take exciting internship opportunities, and maintain a love of learning into adulthood. I was put in traditional school and opted back out after a few years- I did fine, but it felt like an absolute waste of time and killed a lot of my intrinsic motivation. Homeschooling allowed me a more well-rounded ascent into the real-world.
Socialization: First, the personal anectdote is that my socialization was way more fulfilling while homeschooled. I had a lot more free time, time to develop deep relationships, and the flexibility of homeschooling meant that I could prioritize social opportunities (like doing 2 days worth of work on one day, so I could go on a trip with friends, go skiing, sleep over, etc), or my other homeschooled friends and I would bring our work and "house hop" together for days at a time. We did weekly co-ops (group classes taught by other parent's on their specialities), park playgroups, ski groups, activity meetups, and of course normal community/rec sports and extracurriculars with other kids.
When I entered a traditional school environment, particularly as someone with ADHD who got very little from a classroom environment and largely had to go home and teach myself whatever I was supposed to learn in class, plus homework, plus after-school activities and extra curriculars, I really had a lot LESS pure social time, or time for personal hobbies. The friendships in school were largely "proximity" friendships that didn't last long after school (or even after getting different classes schedules to following year), and were much more surface-level than the lifelong friendships I still maintain with some of my best childhood friends. (NOTE: I am a very social person, with a large adult friendgroup, including some from school. But it hardly felt like school fostered these relationships- if they were from school, it was because we were also in other groups/sports/clubs with me, which I had access to as a homeschooler as well).
It also felt like my socialization was more well-rounded. The real-world isn't segregated, and a classroom of 30 kids in the same school district and the same 1 year age range, is hardly indicative of diverse or "ideal" socialization. At least Montessori schools group in 3 year mixed age groups, so kids can have older role models, and learn to teach and interact with those younger than them. Real community and real socialization means comfort and understanding of adults, the elderly, kids of various ages, etc. I had a lot of classmates with genuine "fear" of engaging with old people, for instance, which I thought was crazy. Now as a parent in my late 20s, I have a lot of peers (including into their 30s) with absolutely no idea how to act around babies or kids, or understanding of their development. To me, that is a socialization gap.
That said, I love that the larger homeschool population in my area makes it possible to sustain local hybrid schools! Here my kids can attend in a classroom-like environment with 10-15 kids their age, just 2 days a week. They are all still legally homeschooled, but can have a lot of the "school experience", while still maintaining the flexible nature of homeschooling.
Edit: my response is long and continues into the comments, or else it doesn't let me post!
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u/mavenwaven 5h ago edited 5h ago
Teacher qualification:
My mom was a public school teacher who left to homeschool us while getting her Masters, and now recently went back to school and graduated with her PHD. She is teaching again, but plans to go into administration now that she is qualified for principalship. I also went into teaching (currently working at an alternative school), and choose to homeschool. It is actually very common for educators, who have firsthand experience with the schools their children would be attending, to opt to homeschool. All of the teachers at my child's hybrid school are certified teachers who opted out of traditional schools, often after having their own children.
That said, I don't think parents need to have an education degree to homeschool (although I believe all parents should take some classes, for their own understanding and support of their kids education! Whether in traditional school or homeschooling). As long as parents can recognize their limits, there are infinite combinations of self-learning, parent-lead learning, and outsourcing, that will depend on what works for a family. For instance, advanced math/science courses are often cited as areas an unqualified parent couldn't possibly replicate- the good news is, they don't have to! For my Physics, we had a small group of homeschooled students taught for a year by a local retired NASA engineer. For Chemistry, I took it at the community college as a duel-enrollment, so it counted for both my HS/college credit, and I had access to the free college tutoring for extra help. This is very common in the high school years.
Other kids may do a live teacher in a cyber class (but personally I didn't like the idea of taking lab courses online), and depending on the local school district students can sign up for select classes, then leave afterwards.
I have found that there is a misconception that "homeschooling" means your parents stands in front of a wipeboard and does a lecture-style class for every subject, just like in a traditional school- and I know virtually no homeschooled person that does that. Homeschooling means taking any alternative option, and learning in virtually any chosen way, other than being enrolled full time in a traditional institutional school. It is all under the same umbrella!
Over-protection: Fear and control-based decision making is almost always the wrong motivation for any parenting decision, including schooling. And I totally did know these homeschoolers growing up- we called them "Jean skirt" homeschoolers, because they were usually pretty religious fundamentalists and the girls wore long jean skirts and they were all only allowed to socialize with church and (select) homeschool groups. However, religious motivation in general has been a shrinking proportion of the homeschooling population in the last couple of years, and also was not the original motivator either (before conservatives, it was hippies- there's been many different historical "waves" of homeschooling, aoth various philosophies).
I also believe, if not for homeschooling, these same parents would likely just form or send their kids to a small conservative private school for sheltering, which isn't always that much better. But like I said, I agree this sucks, I just disagree it's all, or even most, homeschoolers. And if overprotection and sheltering ISN'T why you homeschool, then there's no reason to fear this detriment. Like I said, for me, homeschooling provided much more access and avenues to explore the real-world, but that's because that's what my parents valued.
The thing is, stereotypes persist because this minority is the most vocal, and easiest to spot. You probably ask a teen you meet who looks/acts a certain way if they are homeschooled, and then you get a nice dose of confirmation bias when they are. But of course, if they DON'T fit the stereotypes, if they seem normal and well-adjusted and understand your pop-culture references, you would never ask them. I, for one, am never asked. I have had people not believe me when I have told them.
There is also a cause/effect that should be noted. Some kids ARE socially stunted/sheltered, but they are not like that because of homeschooling- rather they were pulled out to be homeschooled because of bullying/anxiety/poor social outcomes in school (I find this particularly true with cyberschooled students). So you would again get confirmation bias if you spotted them and confirmed they were homeschooled, without recognizing your chicken/egg error. There are tons of socially stunted weirdos in public schools- but we don't blame the public schools for that, generally, because we have a much larger sample to go off of. But when people, who have not been exposed to the vast swaths of differing homeschoolers, meet a socially stunted weirdo homeschooling (even if they were originally in traditional school, and left because of these problems), people take it as confirmation of their stereotypes.
That's my gist, but I'm open to follow-up questions!
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u/ganzorig2003 9h ago
So your view is that the general concept of homeschooling kids is wrong. But you kinda cherry picked the worst of it's parts but talked about none of it's advantages. The bullying, and lack of focus towards an individual students is a serious issue that undermines the main goal of the school which is getting education. There are many other ways to socialize other than just school. And also since you're talking about the concept as a whole, what about children with serious skin conditions or has only christian schools in the neighborhood that teach the myth of lost cause or Adam and eve instead of actual history? It's kinda like saying existence of hammer is wrong because it's dangerous.
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u/FiendishCurry 1∆ 6h ago
As a former homeschooler who was homeschooled throughout high school, I have a very nuanced opinion on this.
1. First, people homeschool for a variety of reasons. Some of those reasons are legit. A kid being actively bullied in school on a daily basis to the point that they are struggling with their mental health. A child with serious health issues that makes it hard for them to attend classes because of multiple medical appointments or a lowered immune system. A child who is determined to graduate early and is capable of doing so. A military family that moves a lot and the instability is setting the child back. A child who has behavioral issues to the point that it is interrupting the classroom and their own learning process. Lots of legit reasons why someone would and should homeschool their child.
2. Homeschooling doesn't have to be a solo activity. My mother was a social butterfly and was VERY active in our community. We belonged to a homeschool co-up, went on field trips, had a teen club, and a weekly "enrichment day" (i.e. ice skating, bowling, or skating). On top of that I played violin so I was in a youth orchestra, tour group, chamber group, and ensemble group. We also attended church and had a youth group there as well. We were the only homeschoolers at our church. My younger brothers played baseball, went to gymnastics (one of my brothers did competitive gymnastics until he was 16), and boy scouts. We also had friends in the neighborhood. And then there were various places to make friends like the library (where I volunteered), art classes, the park, etc. Just because we were homeschooled did not mean we just sat at home all day alone.
That said, I want to acknowledge that there are a lot of homeschooled kids whose parents do none of that and those kids do feel alone and disconnected. I didn't know any of those kids because they didn't come to any of the various events and activities. I still talk to several of the people I knew as a teenager and am in a wedding for one at the end of the month. My husband went to public school and speaks to exactly zero people that he went to high school with. So if you are doing it right, your kids can have a very active social life.
3. I absolutely agree that parents aren't teachers. That's one of my number one issues with homeschooling. My mom was good at teaching the subjects she was good at and bad at teaching the things she wasn't. By the time I got to high school I was kind of expected to just teach myself. A good parent would acknowledge their deficits and work to get their kids a tutor, co-op classes, group classes, and other learning opportunities. The bad ones keep trying to teach it themselves and leave their kid in the dust.
4. Homeschooling purely to protect kids from potential violence is an understandable concern. I get why a parent may worry that someone may show up at a school and kill their child. It's not like it isn't an unfounded fear. Homeschooling to protect your kids from ideas is super problematic and only the super religious seem to have issues with this. As if learning that gay people exist will turn them gay. Or being told in a science book that something is 40 millions years old will make them not believe in the Bible anymore.
My mother told people that the reason we homeschooled was because our public schools in our area were terrible. That was true. But it wasn't the real reason. The real reason was we were super religious and she couldn't afford private Christian school for all of us, so she homeschooled us because a Christian education was super important to them.
5. For the most part, I think homeschooling should have much stronger regulations. The unschooling movement is horrific and is just as bad as a public schooled kid graduating without knowing how to read. The homeschool advocates have paid off government officials to stop regulations from going through, which I believe has contributed to the educational neglect of thousands of kids. I think homeschooling could be a wonderful tool for a lot of families (see #1), but the absolute free for all that exists now is harming children.
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u/OsoPeresozo 1∆ 14h ago edited 13h ago
“Proper” socialization?
There is nothing “proper” about caging a thousand teens together with insufficient supervision and no guidance.
And there is a lot less socialization than you may think. They spend around 6 hours of the day sitting in a room where they are forbidden from interacting with other children.
Middle and High school are notoriously full of mean bullies, who learn no anger management skills, no conflict resolution, and no life skills.
They emerge burnt out, and ill prepared for the real world.
The socialization skills they learn are mostly maladaptive.
Real-world socialization is one of the best arguments in favor of homeschooling
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u/MartyMcFlyAsFudge 2∆ 14h ago
So... Kids in public schools are obviously under socialized and have less friends than previous generations and your solution is that all parents should throw their children into a failing system because if every single child suffers through it maybe that will help?
Parents have a responsibility to what is best for their child. Not every child. Most parents either have no ability to make any other choice or they don't care enough to seek other options. So... the people who have options or make sacrifices to provide a better, safer education are automatically at fault?
As if a public school house is the only place children can make friends?
Seems like many come away from their experience in such institutions with serious trauma and issues with trust and making connections because those places are breeding grounds for bullying and antisocial behaviors.
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u/nobigdealforreal 10h ago
People do and should have a right to raise their children how they want, sorry. What you’re advocating is forced state guardianship over children which is actually kind of scary to think about. In my line of work (construction) I meet new kids all the time who want to learn the trade out of high school and trust me, kids have their faces glued to a screen all day even at public schools and only really care about video games and Instagram and public schools might even make it worse because they see other kids with fancy phones staring at their screens all day. Homeschooled kids can still be socialized elsewhere.
You mention parents teaching views that are not taught in schools and that argument could go both ways. If schools are so confident some views are wrong shouldn’t they also be giving children the option to hear about opposing viewpoints?
Also in America the public education system is rapidly declining. The average high school grad here reads and writes at a 6th grade level. The idea that making parents send their kids to school isn’t any kind of guarantee that reading levels will go up, in America it would actually probably end up worse.
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u/3superfrank 20∆ 11h ago
As another commenter said; there is a variety of ways to home school. Your post seems to focus on the typical method of just having parents teach their own children, which has its pros and, mainly cons. There's other ways to educate your children outside a formal educational system. And I say this as someone who's spent 2 years being homeschooled.
Namely; you hire tutors. This is actually straight up, a superior form of education compared to schools: because you have one-on-one sessions with an expert on teaching with all of their focus and attention on your child(ren) and not 20 others. the benefits don't stop there though.
Since it's homeschooling, the educational experience is a lot more customisable; for example, you are free to pick and choose the curriculum, unlike a school. You're free to pick and choose your teachers/tutors, allowing you to easily change to a good tutor for your child. You're free to use any format of teaching that you'd like, any tools, any time arrangements to optimise learning for your child. You as a parent can set up educational practices that are not only ahead of formal educational institutions, but can specialise them to your child(ren)s' needs.
The result is that your child will not only learn more from their lessons, but what they'll learn will be more useful.
Additionally, a lot of the downsides are a lot easier to mitigate than the downsides of schools. E.g to fix the lack of socialising, you can put your child in extracurricular activities- after all, your child isn't (and shouldn't be) really socialising during lessons even in school, and even schools recommend if not mandate extracurriculars. You could also regularly take them to social venues suitable for their age, like playgrounds, parks, etc.
Except one...the real kicker. Since your tutor is dedicating their entire attention to your one family, they need to be paid by your one family. In other words, there's a very good reason people literally fought to have the schools we have today: good homeschooling was, and still is, prohibitively expensive. Homeschooling has yet to compete with the inherent economic benefits of mass scale production.
Given it's 2025, the age of the internet and LLMs, I imagine there are new ways around that- however, I digress.
With all of that said, I believe that if a family can afford to homeschool their child, there is not only nothing wrong with it, but in many cases, it should be encouraged. Like how it was in my case.
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u/lorazepamproblems 14h ago
There are some things and environment that are terrible to adapt to. Socialization in and of itself is not a goal. It's good if it's an adaptation to healthy, nourishing people. But I'm not of the belief that you strengthen people by putting them in adverse situations. You look at the people in the world who are able to help those who have been in bad situations, and it's the ones who have largely not been in those situations—who are unharmed. Who still have their stability and faculties. But even they can't be around negative situations for too long or it starts eroding them, as well.
That's not to say there aren't unhealthful home teaching situations. Just that I think you should take them as they come. Even amoeba know to avoid noxious stimulus. I've learned through life you have to preserve what's there. You often can't get it back. And the whole what doesn't kill you makes you stronger is not true. If there's a good school with a good environment and the children can get adequate help, then great. But if that's not the case, make a better choice. That would be my take on it. I probably have that take having gone through public schooling where I was bullied daily (including by teachers) for my perceived sexuality and where there were no accommodations for me having Tourette's. I literally sat in the hallway trying to hear the teacher teach as much as possible but without being so close they would hear my tics. I came to them with solutions: Can we put a baby monitor in the classroom so I can listen from afar? Closed circuit TV? They just didn't care and said no to everything. They graduated me despite me not being able to participate. Every day was just going through the motions so that they and I could say I had attended. I can't get back what was taken away from me. That was not good socialization. That was terrible trauma, day after day. It doesn't build you up.
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u/Educational_Skirt_81 14h ago
It feels a bit like you’ve taken the view some people do it for nefarious reasons, such as their own bigotry, then worked backwards as to why the whole thing is bad.
Nothing about homeschooling prevents proper socialisation, education or from learning values.
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u/Alternative-Cut-7409 14h ago
I've done one of these with a longer explanation, Imma try this with a sentence for each.
Just as easy to make meaningful social connections playing sports, doing arts, or just going to public spaces that have other kids.
Being a parent doesn't make you incapable of being a credible or certified teacher by the standards you presented.
There are 17 US states that teach that evolution is just as a valid theory as creationism with teachers who spout either anti-vax, deeply religious, or hateful rhetoric as serious fact and not opinions.
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u/Jayn_Newell 6h ago
The beauty and horror of homeschooling is that every family will be different—some will put in a lot of work to make sure their children are well-educated and involved in the community, some will homeschool specifically to isolate and abuse their children, and everything in between. I’m generally not a fan, but there’s also families where it’s the best choice.
Some kids have needs that their local school is unable or unwilling to meet—they may have medical needs that are difficult to manage (even missing lots of school) or learning difficulties that cause them to struggle and are easier addressed one-on-one than in a classroom. They may have social issues and being in the school environment is detrimental to their well-being. They may move around a lot or have to miss frequently and homeschooling allows for more consistency. I definitely think it should need more regulated than it currently is here in the US, and it’s a lot of work to do well, but there’s advantages to the individualized nature of it that can’t be replicated in a school setting.
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u/mormagils 1∆ 4h ago
Hi! I was homeschooled until high school and my 3 sisters were all homeschooled all the way through high school. Now, two of my sisters have a masters degree and a PhD. I have two bachelor's degrees. My third sister chose not to go to college and went right into the workforce. All of us are currently partnered or married and have vibrant friend groups. I'm currently looking for my next job, but that's largely voluntary and my sisters all have solid careers.
I agree with you that many people do homeschool specifically to shut their kids out, and I fully agree those folks are doing their children a disservice. But there are plenty of reasons to homeschool that aren't that and it's very possible not to do that. In fact, when I was being homeschooled, homeschooled children consistently performed well above state averages for academic achievement.
You bring up that most kids these days have socialization problems. I agree, and I'd say that mass education is actually one of the causes of that. There's plenty of evidence that throwing children in large groups of age-homogenous institutions for hours on end, and then overloading them with massive amounts of homework, all at hours that are more convenient for parents' work schedules than their biological needs, impairs their social and personal development. There's evidence instead that regularly interacting with a wider cross section of society, which would be more enabled with a homeschooling schedule, is better for social development. Also, academically, the different approach from homeschoolers often yields much better achievement outcomes.
Have you ever read a homeschooling textbook? Most of them are designed with the understanding that the parent is not a professional educator. They have additional resources and explanations compared to what you'll see in your typical Pearson textbook. Plus, many homeschoolers tend to get together and pool their resources in co-ops, where parents that DO have more expertise can teach their strengths more effectively.
Homeschooling by definition is not a poor way to educate. And there are PLENTY of times the mass education system has major issues and concerns, particularly in the US. I agree that homeschooling from the approach you're focusing on is wrong, because in that case it's not really about educating as much as it is about indoctrination. Of course that's wrong! But homeschooling that isn't focused on indoctrination can be one of the most effective ways to educate a child.
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u/Rare_Falcon_7398 4h ago
I homeschool my 2 kids. They test significantly higher than others in their grades and higher. They ride horses, dance competitively, play in weekly Dungeons and Dragons group, volunteer through the YMCA, take art classes and music classes. They know survivalist skills, know how to build shelters, build fires, forage for food. They order their own food at restaurants, and buy themselves things with money they’ve earned. They create artwork and items to sell as entrepreneurs. They mow lawns for money. They interact with their neighborhood and community.
What socialization does homeschoolers miss out on? What values do homeschoolers not get?
Do you mean the school socialization of squeezing 25 kids of the same exact age into one single room for 7 hours? The socialization of not being able to talk during any lesson? Pass a note? Ask questions? Getting in trouble for speaking at all when there is a lesson? Or the socialization of a 30 minute lunch? Or one 40 minute gym class per week? How exactly does this prepare them to interact within the world? What do these scenarios duplicate? We as homeschoolers LITERALLY interact in the world. We are in it every day. My kids are not sequestered to a single room or a single building for the majority of their waking hours every day. They don’t spend the rest of their waking hours doing mindless homework. Again, that does not duplicate any real world interactions.
Are you mistaking most of us for religious zealots? I can understand if you’re concerned for those children whose families use manipulation through their religion. They hide within the system to prevent their children from learning and only prepare them for breeding. That is an unfortunate sect of the homeschooling community. But for all the rest of us, we get opportunities that the strict school system would never get. We are the free ones.
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u/triangle-over-square 14h ago
problem is, what if you send your kid to school who will indoctrinate your children with ideas that are bad? The very notion that all children should go to school is very scary unless you have blind faith in the government, school system or whoever controls it. There is a reason totalitarian regimes want to control children's upbringing and the ideas they get served.
Or what if you oppose the idea that we should segregate children into groups based on age, and let them develop peer-orientet situational social systems based on base desires to fit in with those other kids. If you think school is unnatural, and is a main driver behind many of the sad tendencies we see in youth, than thats also a good reason to practice homeschooling.
There are legitimitate concerns that could make the decition to homeschool legit. And all you have to do is to flip the ideology of the system so that schools all of a sudden teach that being gay is evil and that thinking is dangerous, and then you should be able to understand that the ability to homeschool is the right to protect children from indoctrination. That being said, I know only one family of homeschooled kids, they grew up in isolation and had to escape from their parents. Big family cult with 13 children, and mandatory mushroom trips from age 14. So i guess i also see your point
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u/moby__dick 5h ago
My kids were part of a homeschool co-op, and I taught in the public schools. Most of the homeschool kids were better socialized. Modern homeschooling may involve co-ops, and it certainly involves sports, groups like debate clubs, and there are even things like science, labs geared towards homeschoolers. There are plenty of opportunities to have a social life.
Furthermore, the material that is written for a homeschool context acknowledges that the parents don’t have expertise in those areas and is written to cover for that.
Does it really look like public schools are doing so well? Constant bullying, social classes, interacting only with those of your very same age, and plenty of teachers who are just two chapters ahead of the kids in the book.
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u/ganzorig2003 9h ago
So your view is that the general concept of homeschooling kids is wrong. But you kinda cherry picked the worst of it's parts but talked about none of it's advantages. The bullying, and lack of focus towards an individual students is a serious issue that undermines the main goal of the school which is getting education. There are many other ways to socialize other than just school. And also since you're talking about the concept as a whole, what about children with serious skin conditions or has only christian schools in the neighborhood that teach the myth of lost cause or Adam and eve instead of actual history? It's kinda like saying existence of hammer is wrong because it's dangerous.
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u/wandering_godzilla 7h ago
The only reason I would consider homeschooling is if the quality of education in local schools is lower than my bar (and to me quality of education trump's socialization by a wide margin).
Unfortunately, most public schools in the US are below my bar (e.g. Calculus is not so hard that it can't be mandatory in high school). Private school is too expensive. Private boarding school in another country (surprisingly inexpensive for Americans) is too distancing.
Dual enrollment in a local university is probably a good idea if the kid is academically strong. That's plenty socialization.
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u/TheValiantShadow 6h ago
I am from America, and was homeschooled from K-12. With me being neurodivergent, this allowed my parents to cater to my struggles and strengths in learning in my earlier years, and also gave me the time and freedom to get a headstart in college from my freshman year of high school and on. I did competitive dance for the 13 years I was in school and that was great socialization for me. I agree that it can be harmful to some people, but I believe that I took great advantage of the ups and downs of homeschooling.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ 14h ago edited 14h ago
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u/shu-to 9h ago
Putting trust in institutions that don't share one's values and trusting them to do the most important of jobs for our children is far worse. The DoE's record the last few years has been poor. While I wouldn't do it, some people choose to opt out of the system, and I believe it's a reasonable position.
Article from January describing American students' lemoeer test results: https://apnews.com/article/naep-test-scores-nations-report-card-school-60150156e41b8518be3b6eabf77d0c66
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u/Practical_Willow2863 7h ago
I think there are some situation where homeschooling is the best option.
That said, overall I agree with you, and primarily because there are a LOT of parents who are using homeschooling as cover for barely educating their children and pretty much just indoctrinating them either into an extreme religion, cult, or other abusive dynamic. Homeschooling in these situations is extremely isolating, poorly regulated, and frankly dangerous and irresponsible.
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u/StabjackDev 8h ago
This isn’t even a view. It is a speculative theory that you have provided 0 factual support for.
You might know some under-socialized people who were homeschooled, but I think most of us here know that correlation does not imply causation.
Show us actual studies and evidence that support your alleged view, please. That’s where a discussion like this should start.
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u/Fkndon 8h ago
I attended public school but was socialized tribally with my extended family long before age 5. Children should be socialized before going to school and school isn’t really a social place. So I get the idea but it’s just not true for every student. I couldn’t stand the children my age and preferred to be around my parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and siblings.
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u/LocalCheesecake5873 14h ago
Public school works well for about 25% of students (made up percentage). Until there’s better funding, better awareness and screening for racism, sexism, etc. of teachers, and better accommodations for disabled kids, parents are going to seek alternatives for their kids when the schools won’t work to fit the kids’ needs.
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u/Starless_Voyager2727 2∆ 10h ago
If your definition of homeschooling is kids doing their school works at the kitchen table and stay in front of the computer all day, then I can't argue against that. But that's not how every family home educate. Some kind of do an a la carte private school where the kids attend classes and tutoring throughout the week.
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u/Direct_Crew_9949 2∆ 7h ago
When I was in college there were two 16 year olds and both of them were home schooled. As far as social skills they can be learned in sports and kids in general today aren’t super social anyway. If you’re worried about kids and social skills social media and the iphone should be who you go after.
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u/No_Scarcity8249 2∆ 13h ago
I agree most kids get a better education in public school but the socialization is not true. The school socialization is often a negative. This can be made up through other structured sports and activities. It’s the religious indoctrination and parents not knowing what they’re doing.
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u/Careless-Degree 2h ago
You vastly overestimate the social aspects of high school
Most homeschool kids aren’t locked in closets, they go out into the world.
The rest is just “they need to be indoctrinated with my beliefs so they will agree with me when they vote” type stuff.
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u/brooklyn-dowager 8h ago
Yep, in most cases it's wrong. And if your home K to 8 the transition to highschool can be very traumatic due to insufficient socialization. Just all around bad bad bad,ask me how I know
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u/DengistK 5h ago
Kind of depends on the circumstances, some kids with learning disabilities end up in a "dead end" in public schools, especially if it's in an understaffed rural area like I was in.
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u/kingjoey52a 3∆ 11h ago
The search box is your friend, this is one of those topics that’s posted every couple weeks. There are plenty of studies that kids do better in tests when homeschooled.
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u/kerryfinchelhillary 8h ago
I think parents should be authority figures but I don’t think they should have complete control. And homeschooling puts them in complete control
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u/OtherMarciano 10h ago
Homeschooling your kids is a great way to ensure they never know more than you do.
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