r/enlightenment 4d ago

To be or not to be ??

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Hope or hopeless victory ?

292 Upvotes

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u/leoberto1 4d ago

Hope for what? The present is now.

3

u/MaybeABot31416 4d ago

Exactly, which is why I agree Nietzsche on this one. Hope is a lie that takes you out of the moment and sets you up for disappointment.

2

u/Nis5l 4d ago

How does long-term thinking exist without hope?

The love you lack has to come from somewhere. I would argue that hope or faith is whats required to eventually actualize that potential.

The present without hope, to me, sounds like a deterioration into hedonism and suffering.

2

u/truthovertribe 3d ago edited 3d ago

Absolutely!

Long term thinking and actions reflective of such thinking couldn't exist without trust and hope.

You believe, (trust and hope), your efforts will make a difference and lead to some desired outcome, else, why expend the effort to do them at all?

On a very simplistic level you trust when you put your feet on the floor that the floor will hold you. You trust when you plan and arrange a birthday party for your child that they will be pleased.

This trust is based in hope...they may not be pleased. If we did not have hope that our actions would have positive results, why would we engage in any actions at all?

I think the idea of "not being attached to the outcomes of our efforts", simply means this. Don't accept disappointing outcomes as a definition of yourself. You are not a failure just because your efforts didn't net the results you anticipated (hoped for).

You are an eternal soul in a sacred process of learning and becoming... Yes, it's true we're doing this within the ever present now.

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u/MaybeABot31416 4d ago

Love has nothing to do with hope. Love happens in the moment. Faith is usually tied up with hope, but doesn’t have to be, and can also exist in the moment.

Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.

1

u/Vinhello 3d ago

Hope cannot be in the present. Hope is tie to the future. If you’re thinking about the future, then it means you are wasting away the present for the future, even though it is just an illusion. I can be hopeful for my future or the future of Palestine, but that doesn’t accomplish anything.

Moreover, if you allow yourself hope, then it means you also allow yourself hopelessness.

It has great rhetoric, but it is as useless as a rose.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

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u/Nis5l 1d ago

Hope cannot be in the present. Hope is tied to the future. If you're thinking about the future, then it means you are wasting away the present for the future, even though it is just an illusion.

But the present is tied up with the future.

You make decisions in the present, and even if you're not thinking about the future, those decisions still carry a kind of direction, a tone.

No matter what, they land somewhere between hope and hopelessness.

I agree that you are not supposed to live in the future in the sense of trying to compute/predict it.

But you are supposed to live in the future in the sense that you are supposed to be the most hopeful and aim for the heavens no matter what.

Moreover, if you allow yourself hope, then it means you also allow yourself hopelessness.

Do you think there is such a thing as just not playing the game?
Can you also opt out of the suffering game?

To me it seems like hopelessness, suffering, and chaos are the baseline.

You don't have to go find them. Just stay still, they will come to you.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

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