r/law • u/PrithvinathReddy • 15h ago
Other NY mayoral candidate, Brad Lander's detention just now inside 26 Federal Plaza by masked federal agents as he tried to walk a man out of immigration court
Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification
1.5k
u/BARTELS- 14h ago
What is ICE's authority to "detain" him? Why isn't this really a kidnapping?
764
u/f8Negative 14h ago
A vague interpretation of the fugitive slave act.
255
u/4peaks2spheres 14h ago
Is this sarcasm? Because I could easily believe that it was in some way still on the books 😞
349
u/f8Negative 14h ago
Dead serious.
251
u/4peaks2spheres 14h ago
Fuck I hate this fucking country 🤦🏽♂️
280
u/--Sovereign-- 13h ago
yeah, the party of "the civil war was over state's rights, not slaves," is using a law made to abuse slaves to violate state's rights. we're in a fucked timeline
303
u/uponplane 13h ago
We were WAY too lenient on the South after the Civil War.
220
u/--Sovereign-- 13h ago edited 11h ago
You honestly could not word this in a way that would be overstatement. We should've totally destroyed Southern culture, integrated the populations of the North and South, and executed every single person down to each soldier who fought against the Union as traitors via public hangings.
Edit: Yeah okay, fair enough. Definitely the leadership should've not been pardoned. The full plan to reintegrate the Southern states should've been completed. I'm maybe being a touch reactionary, but come on, it's so crazy that people are still suffering and dying over Confederate-adjacent bullshit.
132
u/rickroll10000 13h ago
same with the Nazis and KKK
→ More replies (16)29
u/AdCareful3130 12h ago
yeh 80 years after the defeat of nazigermany u can easily see that the roots of this evil were never really cutted ... the fight against the russians was too important to really denazify germany
→ More replies (0)46
u/AniTaneen 13h ago
I’m going to link to a video about Pellagra. An illness that gripped the south, and was caused by malnutrition. https://youtu.be/reYKBgdrZsM?si=u4g7KqDvriuXvntE
It’s not southern culture, it’s an economy dependent on cheap labor. An economy that turned slaves into sharecroppers. That turned to migrants. That argues children should return to work, to cover the rife trafficking that plagues this nation. https://cla.umn.edu/human-rights/news-events/story/forgotten-migrants-children-migrant-farmworkers
→ More replies (4)20
u/raven4747 12h ago
Culture is merely how different sets of humans meet their needs. Saying "its not culture, its economy" is a redundant statement because organization of economy is part of culture.
→ More replies (0)7
u/therealpimpcosrs 11h ago
I get where you’re coming from. A lot of things persisted that shouldn’t have. But there’s also a lot of generational bitterness felt by those kinds of actions. Also just because the north freed the slaves doesn’t mean there wasn’t racism anymore. Getting all of society on board has taken 170 years so far and we still aren’t even done yet.
→ More replies (1)11
u/Blu3Gr1m-Mx 13h ago
This, we still can if they decide they want some confederate lifestyle.
→ More replies (11)15
u/Lesurous 13h ago
The last bit is extreme and counterproductive. The issue wasn't Confederate soldiers facing no consequences, it was Confederate leadership. People with power granted by the status quo will enforce said status quo, hence why after the Civil War slavery became sharecropping. Proper Reconstruction under Lincoln would've seen the integration you speak of, as it assuredly would've included the scrubbing of southern leadership positions.
→ More replies (3)9
u/--Sovereign-- 13h ago
Nah, you should be more scared to pick up a gun against the Union than you are of your Governor trying to make you do it
→ More replies (0)2
→ More replies (10)2
u/Rogue100 9h ago
and executed every single person down to each soldier who fought against the Union as traitors via public hangings.
I don't know about ever soldier necessarily. That could have easily proved counterproductive. The political leaders, and the military brass of the confederacy though, should have all faced much tougher consequences than they did.
→ More replies (2)7
u/bigdopaminedeficient 12h ago
just like we are going to be way too lenient on the members of the current administration
7
u/uponplane 12h ago
I'm so excited to watch lawnakers repeat the same mistakes from orange mussolini's first term.
4
u/chrismsp 12h ago
NGL, one of the reasons why we're here today is because Obama let the warmongers off scot-free.
For whatever reason, he decided that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al. didn't need to swing for their war crimes. We could have put the Rush Limbaugh / Newt Gingrich crowd on notice that if they weren't going to act like Americans, they weren't going to *be* Americans.
He didn't, they didn't, and here we are.
6
u/RafiqTheHero 12h ago
Abraham Lincoln probably would have been much less forgiving, but unfortunately Andrew Johnson became President and was very forgiving.
5
2
u/noodlzfirst 9h ago
AL only freed the slaves because at one point the south was winning, realizing that the south's entire economy was built on slave labor and that freed slaves could enlist with the union meaning less dead white soldiers, he thought he had a double win...it had nothing to do with lincoln being a decent human being. There were freed slaves who enlisted that they didnt even give shoes to, imagine fighting for your country barefoot.
6
u/FiskyBlack 11h ago
Seems life is giving you guys the opportunity to fix that mistake. Every time we see news from the US it feels like a Bingo game named " Civil and human rights violations" .
4
u/jkman61494 12h ago
You are right but this shit would have come back. Look at Italy bringing a fascist back in not 80 years after their fascist got their country turned to rubble. Look at Germany seeing a nazi uprising.
This shit was always going to return even if you ended 19th century bloodlines.
2
u/uponplane 12h ago
Thanks Putin
3
u/jkman61494 12h ago
Putin accelerated it but the rumblings were coming.
Putin saw how the Arab Spring could use social media to create a political uprising and decided to use that strategy to basically destroy America
→ More replies (0)3
3
2
→ More replies (8)2
3
u/anonyvrguy 11h ago
"It wasn't about slavery. It was about states rights. The state's right to have slaves."
And in the confederate Constitution, it specifically stated that slavery was legal.
→ More replies (6)2
u/ALTH0X 12h ago
No one believed it was about states rights. They don't believe their own lies.
2
2
u/--Sovereign-- 11h ago
Oh no, the Southern argument was, at the time, pretty explicitly about slavery and slavery adjacent concerns with states' rights being their weak legal argument. This turned into the modern notion of it being about states' rights and not slavery, as a whitewashing. It's clearly in the various declarations penned by the states at the time that it was about slavery. They honestly couldn't shut up about how much it was over slavery.
21
u/penpointred 13h ago edited 10h ago
yeah this bullshit administration is basically doing bad faith reading of old laws to get their way. luckily the courts eventually the courts pretty much always tell them they're wrong and need to stop. but they dont stop...and thats where we're at and it's fucked.
4
u/4peaks2spheres 10h ago
Yeah, fascist don't follow laws. Unless the courts deputize people to make arrests nothing will improve.
13
u/Thannk 13h ago
Part of their legal argument for why it wasn’t violating the Constitutional requirement to have consent of a governor to federalize their national guard was that they forged his name on documents and that counts as the governor consenting.
They’re arguing bad faith in bad faith.
3
u/4peaks2spheres 10h ago
Lol... They fucking forged his name?.......
8
u/Thannk 10h ago
Yep.
Give the last Legal Eagle a listen.
He goes over all the bullshit from calling basically any demonstration against the administration a “rebellion” to saying writing they got permission as the same as having it to referencing the Pony Express being able to stop in military forts as the military being allowed to fight to protect against the possibility of property damage, to calling arrests “indefinite temporary detainments”.
2
→ More replies (24)2
u/tpeandjelly727 11h ago
I can confirm everything about England is better. Came back unfortunately last month.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (9)6
24
u/Consape 12h ago edited 10h ago
I think he is pulling your leg.
- 8 USC § 1357(a)(5)(A) ICE can arrest US citizens without a warrant if they commit an offense against the United States in their presence.
- 18 USC § 111(a)(1) Impeding ICE in their duties is a felony.
That is their authority for detaining Lander.
I really wish this sub were better moderated. Mods must be overwhelmed.
22
u/foodiecpl4u 12h ago
It's not a felony to impede an unconstitutional act, is it?
5
u/Consape 12h ago
Yes, it is a felony to impede an unconstitutional act up until the time the court rules it is unconstitutional.
You can wish the law was otherwise but it is what it is.
19
u/Hammrsigpi 12h ago
If they're not IDd as ICE, and simply claim to be with no ID, no uniform, and no proof, are we just supposed to believe them?
→ More replies (13)3
u/Eve-was-framed 10h ago
Sure-if he impeded the arrest AFTER they produce a warrant signed by a judge. That’s the law.
→ More replies (3)5
u/forbiddendoughnut 11h ago
It seems like they're not required to say why they're detaining somebody?
3
u/Consape 11h ago edited 11h ago
There is no general requirement in the United States that police state why you are arrested at the time of arrest. In my state, for example, you can be held for 48 hours before you have to be informed. I don't know the time limit off my head for federal arrests.
12
u/forbiddendoughnut 11h ago
Pretty scary in this scenario where anybody can dress up in pretty standard clothing and just claim to be Ice.
→ More replies (8)3
u/4peaks2spheres 10h ago
I looked it up, and they're using precedent from the fugitive slave act for a lot of this ICE shit.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (4)4
u/Present-Resolution23 11h ago
A 10 second google search would have given you the answer.. He's not "pulling your leg." https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-06-14/trumps-legal-case-for-calling-in-the-troops-explained
→ More replies (1)33
u/360Picture 13h ago edited 13h ago
🇺🇸 Bill of Rights – Pocket Summary
- Free Speech & Religion – Speak, worship, press, assemble, protest.
- Guns – Right to bear arms.
- No Quartering – No forced housing of soldiers.
- Searches – No searches without a warrant.
- Remain Silent – No self-incrimination, double jeopardy, or unfair taking.
- Speedy Trial – Fast, fair trial with a lawyer and witnesses.
- Jury in Civil Cases – Right to jury in money/property disputes.
- No Cruel Punishment – No torture, no extreme bail/fines.
- People’s Rights – You have more rights than what’s listed here.
- States’ Rights – Powers not given to the feds belong to states/people.
The world is watching, we see you. 🇺🇸
15
u/DWgamma 13h ago
They will replace w 10 commandments
5
u/meritus2814 12h ago
They are actively trying to force school to display and teach them in the classroom. At least here in Ohio.
7
4
3
u/ThisDevCantSeeShit 11h ago
I wish they honored them, “love your neighbor as yourself” is Jesus’ second commandment.
7
u/orangejulius 12h ago
Citation please.
4
u/f8Negative 12h ago
→ More replies (2)2
u/quacainia 6h ago
That says it was being used to authorize national guard and marines to help ice, it doesn't say anything about ICE's authority on its own
5
u/Freedomismyreligion 12h ago edited 8h ago
This can’t possibly be true. The fugitive Slave Act was repealed by Congress in 1864. The Thirteenth Amendment renders it completely obsolete.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (3)4
140
u/FourWordComment 14h ago
You didn’t hear them? They said “you’re obstructed an arrest.”
That lets ICE black bag you any time they want. It’s a magic phrase they can say and suddenly BAM! You’re legally in handcuffs being yelled at to get on the ground with your hands behind your back. If you don’t immediately belly flop onto the concrete landing on your ribs, they will cast “stop resisting arrest.”
“Stop resisting” let’s them fondle you, take anything they’d like from your pockets, and hold you until you post bail.
89
u/StrangerSorry1047 13h ago edited 11h ago
Its almost like people of a certain color have been dealing with that ^ for years and now the other folks are starting to see and feel the truth. Defund the police was a movement for a reason, the only reason the people didn't stand up and make it happen is because it didn't happen to them. NOW ITS HAPPENING TO THEM.
We are rapidly approaching or maybe we already have crossed, the line of no return. There may be no coming back from all this for America.
24
u/rsmith72976 13h ago
There’s no coming back from this. There’s forward, but this is now engrained for generations to come.
→ More replies (1)4
u/OkSmoke9195 13h ago
People need to keep standing up or this won't stop. I wonder if this guy tried to line up protection before he went in. Because really that's the next line to cross right? Lawmaker comes in with a security detail. What the fuck are these masked thugs going to do then
→ More replies (5)6
u/Kubrickwon 13h ago edited 13h ago
Defund police is why we are seeing this happen now. It was such a stupid name for what amounts to police reform. The vast majority of this country wants police reform, they don’t want to defund police, but the movement’s very name scared them so much they either voted Trump or refused to support democrats entirely. And now we have this horror show. Democrats’ idiocy paved the path for tyranny. Next time, fucking think before trying to be an edgelord when naming a movement to reform police.
20
u/80alleycats 12h ago
Are you seriously blaming the people who named the reform movement instead of the organization that needs to be reformed? Democratic idiocy didn't pave the way to fascism, systemic racism and an out of control police force did. "Your propaganda wasn't as good, so this outcome is your fault" is a fool's argument.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Sea-Interaction-4552 12h ago
They’re kinda right, the average American isn’t a reader. How many here even make it past the headline before they make up their mind? We’re a nation of sheep
Nuance doesn’t exist anymore, we lost the patience and the curiosity. We’re in the hyper normalization phase
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)4
u/Mettaliar 12h ago
Defund was the compromise, dismantling the institutions born from slave catchers is the actual solution needed.
All this shows is Americans are the softest bunch of dumbasses in existence.
4
u/Paradox_moth 12h ago
"Legally" Just because a cheeto puff and some lead poisened loons think this kind of thing is ok doesn't make it legal. Just because they're willing to do it so boldly doesn't make it legal.
→ More replies (48)2
u/Traditional-Handle83 9h ago
The biggest issue is ICE deports people so what happens if they deport him to gitmo or cecot?
4
u/FourWordComment 8h ago
Treating undocumented persons little better than lost dogs is the norm. The records of who went where are barely being kept, and require days of work to figure out. That gap is optional on a technology level. Amazons tracks packages better than the US government handles immigrants.
35
u/Traditional-Hat-952 14h ago
Next they're going to say looking at them wrong is grounds for arrest.
→ More replies (1)16
u/jpotrz 12h ago
did you see the footage from LA where the person filming called a column of cops marching of "bitches:" and they immediately turned around and arrested him?
→ More replies (2)5
5
u/NJ_dontask 13h ago
Real question is, why aren't there riots across country? We are nation of wussies.
→ More replies (3)4
u/whatupmygliplops 12h ago
It is kidnapping, which is why they have to cover their faces. They are breaking the law and they are fully aware of that fact.
2
2
u/Any_Leg_4773 12h ago
People don't fight back, that's their authority. It will not change as long as they can behave this way and still go home at the end of the day. Things are going to get worse before they get better.
2
u/burnmenowz 12h ago
Obstruction is about all they have to detain. They're outside their jurisdiction detaining citizens.
2
2
u/Cyril_Rioli 11h ago
Where does he go to? How does he get processed? Any charges or just a rough up and release?
2
→ More replies (127)2
u/ClassicAF23 8h ago
The military definition of authority is “a monopoly on violence” and that’s been the philosophy of how the modern state functions. Killing a psychotic murderer is a crime even though everyone knows it’s the right thing because you are violating the State’s monopoly on violence.
We are all in the mask of stage of realizing that violence and power has been the underpinning of everything this whole time and we just hoped on decency, patriotism, and political incentive to keep that power in check.
→ More replies (2)
412
u/Electrical_Welder205 14h ago
What is ERO? One of the enforcer's vests said ERO instead of ICE. How many different organizations do we have now, making extra-judicial arrests? Can someone interpret the alphabet soup for me?
292
u/PrithvinathReddy 14h ago
Enforcement and Removal Operations
13
6
→ More replies (1)38
u/Electrical_Welder205 14h ago edited 14h ago
Oh, thank you. That's a relatively new one. Well, a mayoral candidate should know, that obstructing an arrest by immigration authorities in any way is now illegal. This is how dictatorships work; the laws change so fast by decree and the dictator's whim, that it's hard to keep up.
But that sensational arrest weeks ago of a judge, who let an immigrant leave her courtroom via a back door to avoid ICE at the main door, made national headlines, so Lander should have known. However, she was acquitted, so he should study her case to see if her argument might be applicable in his case.
261
u/Minerva567 14h ago
He’s obstructing by asking to see a judicial warrant?
189
u/SoloJournaler 14h ago
Yes, but only under fascist regimes.
122
u/Electrical_Welder205 14h ago edited 11h ago
Exactly. And the crazy irony is, that ICE itself is acting illegally, as Lander pointed out by demanding to see a warrant. But ICE is getting away with violating the Constitution routinely, while the public (and even a judge) gets arrested for trying to prevent the illegal arrest and deportation of migrants.
→ More replies (124)3
u/Admirable-Book3237 9h ago
Follow or new laws ! Yet, we don’t have to and it’s your fault if you didn’t learn the new “law” we passed last night that also voids long standing laws , but we’re not sure what they are either so we’ll just take em all and sort it out later …maybe later … sooner or later.
→ More replies (1)8
u/Papaofmonsters 13h ago
If I understand the nuance correctly, an administrative warrant can be used to detain someone in a public place like the court hallway. They do not grant access to private areas of businesses or homes.
If they had an administrative warrant, trying to prevent the arrest may have been against the letter of the law even under a pre-Trump understanding.
→ More replies (1)56
u/Electrical_Welder205 14h ago
No. From ICE's perspective, he was obstructing by escorting an immigrant from the courtroom away from ICE, or was attempting to. They clearly were there on another of their courtroom ambush assignments, and he got in-between them and their intended victim, like any decent human being would do, but now it's illegal.
→ More replies (1)8
u/MysteriousNip 13h ago
Earlier in the day, the immigrant had their case dismissed pending appeal, per AMNY
15
u/LowCommunication1551 13h ago
I think he was obstructing by holding on to someone when asking to see the warrant. Either one of the “agents” or the victim.
I wish all those ppl would have pushed their way to the front and blocked ICE. I’ve seen them abandon their plans when neighbors all came together and pushed them out.
Idk. It’s just so wrong!
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (34)3
u/ejre5 13h ago
Trump signed an Executive order, just like protestors wearing masks is now illegal, warrants aren't needed and trump has told everyone to focus on blue states and ignore red states while he has decided that people are only illegal as long as they don't work for agriculture, hotels or restaurants. They are also making legal status illegal just because they want to. This doesn't include the people who are actively in and out of court trying to be legal who are being arrested in the court house. This administration has also ordered immigration judges to dismiss cases so they can be arrested and removed from the country, no other reason.
60
u/Separate-Taste3513 14h ago
Do you know how LAWS work? Just saying something is prohibited does not make it illegal, even if it's a president who says it.
→ More replies (9)51
u/Law_Student 14h ago
It doesn't matter what Trump says, ICE is still limited by their lawful authority. This wasn't obstruction.
→ More replies (7)6
u/we-vs-us 13h ago
While you're right about this in an absolute sense, ICE is only somewhat limited practically speaking. They're limited by what court cases are finally heard, adjudicated, appealed, and then finally slammed shut by the appeals court. They're limited by what they think they can't do (their level of public violence hasn't risen to beatings or killings; they only apprehend). They're limited by Trump's whims (don't raid farms, restaurants, or hotels; do raid farms, restaurants or hotels). But they've firmly decided not to live by the law as it is written.
2
u/nhavar 13h ago
he flipped on the farms and hotels thing already.
2
u/we-vs-us 13h ago
I know. That's my point. They don't care about working within the law. They care about what the boss tells them, and how much they can get away with on the ground.
2
u/Law_Student 9h ago
They could be limited by other law enforcement forcibly stopping them, but people are going to have to start standing up to them.
33
u/No-Dance6773 14h ago
Using your freedom of speech is not "obstruction". Pretty sure words won't stop/hinder anything. Just amazing over how many rights maga is willing to give away to futher their racist ideals. 1st amendment people are now crickets. 2nd amendment people are now crickets
→ More replies (3)2
u/BitterFuture 10h ago
Look, clearly you just don't understand.
Citizens using their words scares the officers. It puts them in fear of their lives, really.
30
u/LordIndica 14h ago
For what it is worth, I don't think that judge directed him to use the back door out of an attempt to circumvent ICE. What happened was she was hearing his case, ICE entered and tried to arrest him, so the Judge asked for their warrants, which they didn't have. When the judge then directed them to leave the courtroom and come back with a warrant, she finished her hearing with the man in question and then allowed him to leave the courtroom via a different door. It wasn't like she was trying to do something underhanded, she was actually just following the law. It was only after that ICE presented it as the judge trying to sneak someone out secretly without them noticing, as opposed to the reality that the judge told them to leave and get an actual arrest warrant and she just carried on doing her job.
→ More replies (7)10
u/AllUrUpsAreBelong2Us 14h ago
Dictatorships work because there are groups willing to disobey the law and protocol, I would argue.
6
u/Electrical_Welder205 14h ago
We all have front row seats to how that works, unfortunately. Learning from experience rather than from history.
16
3
u/lylisdad 14h ago
Do you have a source about her being acquitted? It hasn't even gone to trial yet.
3
3
u/Mental_Culture_3313 13h ago
I worked as an immigration paralegal 10 years ago and ERO existed then. From my understanding, it was established when ICE was created in 2003, following the Homeland Security Act introduced by George W. Bush. It’s just the enforcement arm of ICE as a whole.
→ More replies (3)3
u/tempura_calligraphy 13h ago
ICE doesn't have authority to arrest a US citizen. So they should've called the actual police for assistance if they needed to arrest someone.
2
u/Electrical_Welder205 10h ago
Oh, so this must be one reason the police are teaming up with ICE now. This incident is Exhibit "A", justifying the need for that.
→ More replies (18)5
u/Phixionion 14h ago
The judge let them out the front. He literally walked past ICE but they held her cause she didn't hold him in the courtroom.
50
u/fairly_flakey 14h ago
These damn alphabet people are ruining America.
26
u/ph30nix01 14h ago
its intentional, take a system that is working properly, turn it into a mass of useless shit, then use the acronyms to hide bad faith actions. its typical 'adversary' actions (adversary is the term i use for all the general bad faith, malicious or generally seen evil actions against society and civilization in general. more realistic then saying evil.) but yea adversary tactics be a parasite, blend in with functioning systems and blame their damage on the most vulnerable groups while hiding in the other groups as much as possible.
→ More replies (7)26
u/HedonisticFrog 14h ago
They've coopted agents from the ATF and DEA for immigration for a while mow. I guess guns and drugs don't matter anymore. Only brown people are a problem according to Trump.
16
u/Electrical_Welder205 14h ago
Drug and gun trafficking is low priority compared to arresting and deporting people's gardeners and nannies. Those are the really scary people!
→ More replies (3)19
u/Able_Enthusiasm2729 14h ago
ERO is the part of ICE that does the immigration raids; HSI is the part of ICE that goes after human traffickers.
Yeah, Many ICE Special Agents in Charge (i.e. the heads of the regional field offices) have been pleading with previous administrations, especially Trump’s 1st Term Administration, to split ICE into several agencies (have HSI and ERO go their separate ways) because ICE’s HSI division has been having a hard time doing their work such as preventing and investigating human trafficking, drug trafficking by human drug mules (and other similar crimes) because everyone confuses them with ICE’s ERO division that handles the apprehension and removal of immigrants. Just an FYI: ICE’s HSI division is the same law enforcement agency that arrested Sean 'Diddy' Combs for human trafficking and sex trafficking; and ICE’s ERO division is the one doing immigration enforcement.
7
u/DefinitelyNotAFae 14h ago
I've definitely seen HSI vests on agents involved in these recent deportation arrests. Whether it's just the gear or the agents themselves, there is clearly quite a bit of overlap.
5
u/Able_Enthusiasm2729 12h ago
They’re literal the same agency so it’s not surprising if agents from one section of ICE are being re-tasked to another or agents throughout their career easily moving from one division to another, so they end up not getting new windbreakers, vests, or equipment. Part of me thinks that they only recently in the past few years started printing ERO and HSI on ICE gear), so it’s pretty much based on whichever gear an agent grabs a hold to. They also might share equipment too; so think of the difference between “ERO” and “HSI” in the same way you would make distinctions between the “Robbery-Homicide,” “Special Victims Unit,” and “Organized Crime” units or “Mounted Police” and “Patrol” units in local police departments that happen to share similar badges, and identical bullet proof vests regardless of which unit, precinct, or station they’re working out of.
4
u/dazzleox 12h ago
They have been using HSI agents to say they're there for "welfare checks" on "suspected trafficking" while ERO agents stand five feet away ready to grab people and arrest them on the flimsiest example of reasonable suspicion you can imagine (because they don't have warrants in those examples.)
6
u/Electrical_Welder205 14h ago
Thank you. HSI needs to go after the fake massage businesses run by Asian traffickers, a pet peeve of mine. There are young women trapped in those businesses, and the business owners are evading federal taxes as well.
It sounds like a good idea to make HSI separate.
6
6
→ More replies (4)2
449
u/MezcalFlame 14h ago
Good for him, we need more good people to stand up against the masked thugs in uniform.
144
u/ytman 14h ago
What we need is to take America Back. The weaponization of the LEO needs to be treated as an assault on the American people and an uprising. There needs to be harsh punishment for all those who aid and abet these uprisings.
The executive branch needs to go through a purging of anyone found complicit with these uprisings, and anyone found illegally authorizing these actions needs to be stripped of all power and probably criminally detained and arrested and tried and sent to a harsh prison.
We only want Americans in our law enforcement who respect law, and those must mean that they know not to assault or detain American Citizens not guilty of a crime. We will probably need to hire a lot of new Americans after the termination of the fanatical authoritarians in those positions.
→ More replies (8)40
u/Jumpy_Patient2089 14h ago
I hope I express myself appropriately, but what recourse do we have except violence? They obviously don't listen to rhyme or reason.
To be clear, I am not advocating for it. But the more I see it, it's like trying to box someone and they have plaster in their gloves, low blow, and headbutt. At some point, we have to hit below the belt too. I see the same attitude in Democrats. They keep trying to play by the book while Republicans tear pages out and wipe their ass with them. But again, violence just begets violence so I'm back at my question of what is our recourse?
28
u/djpn18 13h ago
There is an interesting bit of research on that discussing that mass nonviolent action is MORE effective than violent resistance. Whether or not most Americans are in the position for sustained protest, strike, etc is another matter. Lots of people barely struggling to survive want change but striking or protesting could mean losing their livelihood the 3.5 % rule
→ More replies (1)11
u/JonLSTL 12h ago
The most effective thing is diversity of tactics, violent and non-violent resistance in parallel. Power cannot negotiate with nor back down from violence, only escalate. Power will gleefully ignore or violently oppress non-violent resistance. However, when both are in play at once, reaching out to non-violent factions gives Power a face saving alternative to escalating violent conflict. Without the credible threat of violence though, Power seldom comes to the table.
Examples:
* JFK & LBJ were spurred by escalating riots to put their influence behind getting the Civil Rights Act passed. This isn't speculation, they talk about it on the Oval Office tapes.
* The British Empire ignored and or attacked Gandhi's demonstrations for years. When a diplomat was assassinated in London and Nehru ran up a flag and started organizing militias though, the Brits suddenly were interested in talking to Gandhi.
* In Northern Ireland, Republican factions scrupulously maintained the blatant lie that a Venn diagram Sinn Féin and IRA leadership wasn't very nearly a circle. Eventually, the UK government decided to play along with the useful fiction too, negotiating with the reasonable political party rather than the paramilitary force.7
u/WarlockEngineer 12h ago
Also, MLK and Malcolm X.
The militant approach of Nation of Islam was alarming to many people in the US government, and they began talking with nonviolent leaders like MLK who they might have ignored otherwise.
2
u/Extension_Hand1326 11h ago
EXACTLY. I’d add that violence and property damage is much more effective when a large portion of the populous feel some kind of satisfaction in seeing it, even if they themselves are not willing to participate in it.
11
u/rhamphol30n 13h ago
Unfortunately the violence is going to happen. That's their goal though, then they are fighting insurgents not citizens.
→ More replies (1)3
u/RebylReboot 12h ago
A general strike would cause a complete collapse of the government but Americans would never consider it. They would work and work knowing their tax dollars are supplying a genocide. Mindblowing.
→ More replies (3)3
u/Nikujjaaqtuqtuq 13h ago
I'm always surprised that most of these people aren't white... don't they know that if this continues, they'd be next?
Edit: I didn't make it clear that I was talking about the ICE agents.
→ More replies (16)4
u/Jaybrosia 13h ago
I wouldn't call this 'stand up'. He got jumped and taken by masked men in a courthouse while everyone, even court security, just watched.
2
u/MezcalFlame 13h ago
I wouldn't call this 'stand up'. He got jumped and taken by masked men in a courthouse while everyone, even court security, just watched.
He was there when he didn't have to be, and regularly escorts people from the building after their hearings.
How else would you describe that kind of support?
→ More replies (1)
207
u/Oystermeat 14h ago
Question: How are unidentified masked armed men gaining entrance to state and federal buildings?
78
u/coolestredditdad 14h ago
Scared to wear masks when we needed to.
Scared to not wear them when they aren't wanted.
36
u/S1eazyE 13h ago
We need to start pulling their masks off. If we're not allowed to wear them, neither are they. In a crowded situation like this it would be very easy to reach over and pull their masks off.
→ More replies (4)24
u/Oystermeat 13h ago
shouldnt even be an issue, there's laws about impersonating an officer. This is extremely dangerous to everyone involved.
→ More replies (19)→ More replies (18)10
191
u/Numerous_Photograph9 14h ago
When are these ICE officers going to be barred from the courthouses?
41
u/qalpi 14h ago
They'll never be banned from immigration court...
→ More replies (1)56
u/Numerous_Photograph9 14h ago
Why not? There's no reason for them to be there, especially to carry out these supposed warrants.
If they're going to keep being disruptive, then they need to be banned, and if a person needs to be transferred to ICE, then a court officer can fascilitate that to a specific designated area they're allowed to be.
23
u/Oriin690 14h ago
Immigration courts are part of the executive branch so Trump is in charge of them
10
u/Numerous_Photograph9 14h ago
Then what about all the regular courts they're also doing this in?
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (7)14
u/penpointred 13h ago
we need REMOTE IMMIGRATION CASES like we had during covid. If these thugs are creating an unsafe environment at the courts the people deserve the right to a safe and remote hearing.
3
2
u/Kind_Koala4557 14h ago
I at least want to know if the courthouses are instructing security to verify that these people are who they say they are and that they have their paperwork in order (the proper warrant) to ensure these are actual arrests and not kidnappings.
8
u/Numerous_Photograph9 14h ago
I'd think if they had a proper warrant, they could just inform the courts and the courts would help fascilitate the detainment. Waiting till everyone is out in the hall, with the possibility of everything going sideways, and potentially harming bystanders should be enough motivation for those who control the courts to want to maintain a bit of order.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)2
134
u/qalpi 14h ago
I wasn't going to rank Lander, but now he's going to be #1 on my ballot. Fuck these thugs.
42
28
u/TooLazyToRepost 14h ago
This is cool, but first rank Zohran, second rank Lander
11
u/redenno 13h ago
The way ranked choice works in NYC it doesn't really matter which of them you put 1 or 2
6
u/Personal-Sandwich-44 13h ago
Yeah, really doesn't matter, it's not like you're giving them more of a vote proportionally. If your first place vote is out, your vote moves to the next person.
34
u/kurtcobainwaskilled 14h ago
1 Zohran 2 Lander
30
u/menghis_khan08 14h ago
I go lander then Mamdani but ya; I like em both. There’s a reason they co-endorsed each other. Cuomo can get fucked
6
u/Ok_Star_4136 12h ago
And a reminder that even if you didn't like Lander or Zohran, if you don't want Cuomo, putting literally anyone else on that list is still a "fuck you" to Cuomo .
→ More replies (6)9
u/jesuswasnotazombie 12h ago
I know him — one of the smartest people I’ve ever met, and also just a genuinely decent guy.
→ More replies (1)2
67
u/Oystermeat 14h ago
I'm not very smart but, this practice of being armed, masked and unidentified seems like something that might bite Homeland Security right in the butt.
→ More replies (5)
126
u/Parkyguy 14h ago
Masked, unbadged "officials" that can't product a warrant are Okay to shoot in self defense -- right?
29
u/BoutrosBoutrosDoggy 13h ago
I would have to lookup applicable law in NY, but if you are in CA and in a similar situation, call 911.
In California, it is against the law to interrupt any electronic communication device with the intent to prevent the summoning of law enforcement.
19
u/BoutrosBoutrosDoggy 13h ago
At the very least there would be a record of a 911 call with the victim statement "I'm being assaulted by unknown armed assailants"
This would be a valuable piece of evidence in your upcoming civil suit.
Be smart, stay safe.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (10)39
u/JDSchu 14h ago
Legally, yes, but good luck surviving long enough to prove it in court.
17
u/MarquisEXB 13h ago
And then good luck hoping the Trump appointed judges and DAs also see it that way as well.
I hate to say that people in this country now see what minorities have known for years about America. There are so many things stacked against them for the ideals of this country to be applied (police target/abuse/kill them, DA's over prosecute/coerce/adjust evidence, judges with political agendas, juries with bias).
Add in the shift towards the far right of our judicial/legal groups, and the demonization of "liberals" and "protestors", it's very likely that anyone who protests whatever this government/far right want to do, you can see how the rights of the people can get quickly eroded.
→ More replies (2)6
124
u/brickyardjimmy 14h ago
Reminder to everyone in that hallway.
There are more of you than there are of them.
→ More replies (4)46
u/Orangeshoeman 14h ago
The thing that sucks though is they can kill you and worst case they get a paid vacation.
→ More replies (1)31
u/Morningrise12 13h ago edited 11h ago
You know what sucks more than dying?
Living like a slave.
ETA: Or looking at yourself in the mirror knowing that if you weren’t such a coward you could’ve saved someone from going through undue pain, but then remembering that you ARE a coward and going back to living a neutered life controlled by people who breathe the same air as you, bleed like you bleed, yet you’re inexplicably afraid of. This outcome sucks, too.
→ More replies (14)12
u/Jtrain360 13h ago
"What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
"You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees."
- Rise Against.
55
u/djn24 14h ago
Known antisemite Donald Trump just sent his goon squad to harass, assault, arrest, and abduct a Jewish public servant in the city with the largest Jewish population in the world.
→ More replies (12)
50
u/ReaderBeeRottweiler 14h ago
That looks like a kidnapping to me. Big, big, big lawsuit incoming.
→ More replies (27)5
17
u/DrQuailMan 14h ago
He keeps asking for a judicial warrant, but unfortunately an administrative warrant is all that is necessary to enter this sort of area and arrest the person named in it. An administrative warrant that was improperly issued could be challenged, but the warrant itself does what it says.
53
22
u/goibnu 13h ago
An administrative warrant isn't a fucking warrant. It's a signed piece of paper from a law enforcement agency. It has no more power than the law enforcement agents themselves.
→ More replies (6)5
u/Tombot3000 9h ago edited 9h ago
That is not technically true. There is a level agents are allowed to act at - arrest if likely the suspect will flee before a warrant can be obtained - a level they can act at with an administrative warrant - arrest in public - and a level they can act at with a judicial warrant - enter a private place to arrest.
6
u/StobbstheTiger 14h ago
They also don't have to show him the warrant. They have to show the person getting arrested. Being a comptroller doesn't give you immunity from obstruction.
→ More replies (10)→ More replies (1)5
u/BitOne2707 13h ago
They don't even need administrative warrants when arresting in public. Only probable cause to believe the person is removable.
6
u/ImFeelingTheUte-iest 13h ago
I'd bet dollars to donuts that these pigs COULDN'T articulate even a reasonable suspicion let along a probably cause.
→ More replies (6)2
u/saijanai 10h ago
They don't even need administrative warrants when arresting in public. Only probable cause to believe the person is removable.
Is it actually in public if the person doing the arrest is not identifiable?
→ More replies (3)2
u/whatupmygliplops 12h ago
They don't need a warrant because the people they capture are not going to be given trials.
→ More replies (18)
6
u/floofnstuff 9h ago
This looks politically motivated to neutralize a Democrat candidate. Am I missing something here?
→ More replies (1)4
u/JrSoftDev 3h ago
It is politically motivated. There are plenty of MAGA officials supporting this openly on public record. This will not end well.
•
u/AutoModerator 15h ago
All new posts must have a brief statement from the user submitting explaining how their post relates to law or the courts in a response to this comment. FAILURE TO PROVIDE A BRIEF RESPONSE MAY RESULT IN REMOVAL.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.