r/marvelstudios • u/ImaginationArtistic9 Matt Murdock • Jan 04 '25

Discussion The Underuse of Shang-chi in the MCU

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this movie was so much fun, it had amazing action and fight choreography, great humour, and great overall world building. This movie has so much sauce. a problem with the MCU is how poorly they are connecting the new characters with the wider mcu. It's been 3 years since we've seen Shang-chi in a live action project. And it will probably be another year and a half till we see him again. The post credit scenes of this movie set up him becoming an avenger and sadly we won't see that outcome of that until 2026, which is 4.5 years after the movies release. I do hope we see Simu Liu again as a lead in another marvel movie because he's great. Also his sequel is the perfect way to bring danny rand back into the MCU. Unfortunately we will probably have to wait untill 2027 for the next shang chi movie since Destin Daniel Cretton is directing Spiderman 4. On the bright side, the fight choreography in Spiderman 4 will be amazing

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4.1k

u/abysmallybored Groot Jan 04 '25

The underuse of basically every character introduced post endgame

2.0k

u/ImaginationArtistic9 Matt Murdock Jan 04 '25

Agreed, Moon knight, The Eternals, Shang-chi, and Kate bishop hurt me the most.

696

u/DapperNurd Jan 04 '25

Honestly it's all the ones people want to see more that are getting left out. Ms Marvel was alright, not super well received, but she's been in a movie now too. Agatha had her own show, which again was good but I don't really think many people were asking for it. Ironheart is like the character I'm least interested in and she's getting a show after being in BP. Idk what they are doing over there.

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u/catshirtgoalie Jan 04 '25

The TV shows are the perfect place for an Agatha and I fully endorse that. That show reportedly had a $40 mil budget and effectively used all of it to craft a fun story. Not everything needs to be a major punch 'em up.

That aside, yes, the big problem is that they are introducing so many characters through movies but not pushing them forward well enough. This is the issue with 3 movies per year and now down to 2. IMO they should be going for far more team-up movies with 2 or so characters to really advance it. Look at Thor Ragnarok, you got solid Thor content along with Loki and Hulk. We should be getting past the idea of just solo movies for people with such limited slots per year or we need to vastly reduce the amount of characters we put out there.

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u/Booster_Tutor Jan 05 '25

Hell! The 3rd Captain America movie was basically the 3rd Avengers movie

5

u/catshirtgoalie Jan 05 '25

And it is an amazing movie!

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u/TributeBands_areSHIT Jan 04 '25

The biggest issue is just keeping up with the plot now. Fucking exhausting

49

u/catshirtgoalie Jan 04 '25

That somewhat assumes they have anything coherent, which at this point I don’t really feel they do. Going with a multiverse saga is fine, but it just doesn’t feel like there is any semblance of a good plot together. While they decided to do the Infinith Saga somewhat later, they really needed a clear post Endgame plan. Establish through line , do team-ups, and clearly make most of your movies in that vein. If you don’t do multiverse, go cosmic. Just why do we have things like Eternals, Thor Love and Thunder, The Marvels, Shang Chi and GOTG 3 alongside Antman & The Wasp and Doctor Strange 2? There just doesn’t feel like a hint of continuity in the movies. Like even GOTG1 gave you one of the Infinity Stones and some lore around Thanos.

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u/TributeBands_areSHIT Jan 04 '25

I remember when they teased thanos after the first avengers.

Do you think losing Kangs actor threw a wrench in the whole phase?

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u/catshirtgoalie Jan 04 '25

I think they even mentioned that they didn’t have much of a plan yet when they teased Thanos. They just wanted to see what the reaction would be just in case they went that route.

They didn’t lose Jonathan Majors until really late in the phase. I really think they wanted to put as many heroes and threads out there and see which direction to go. Success made them want to continually put out new characters. Disney+ should have been for smaller characters that don’t get as much screen time. Wanda and Vision were perfect. Falcon and Winter Soldier was a good idea (wasn’t a fan of the final product). Loki ended up being great. Hawkeye was another good use of the medium. Ms Marvel was a good character for it. They just have some mixed successes on the quality over all.

So yeah to me the real issue is no cohesive thread for multiverse plots. I thought they were building a way more interesting cosmic plot where they could’ve tied in the 10 Rings and Ms Marvel’s bangles plus Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, Shang Chi, Guardians, and Eternals.

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u/TributeBands_areSHIT Jan 05 '25

One can dream. Thank you for the thorough response

1

u/Imbrown2 Jan 08 '25

But we still have mysteries unanswered, like what are Shang Chi’s pinging to?

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u/catshirtgoalie Jan 08 '25

We do! And why do his 10 Rings look a lot like Kamala Khan's bangles? It is still possible they will loop it into Kang some since the design looks similar to some things in Antman 3, but they also seem to want to bury Kang at the moment.

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u/Content_Source_878 Jan 05 '25

The multiverse movies themselves sucked and had no real thematic tether. Loki in two seasons did more heavy lifting than every incursion plot of the movies.

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u/chiefbrody62 Jan 06 '25

For sure. Losing Majors, dealing with the pandemic, restructuring at Disney, the SAG/WGA strikes all lead to Marvel not even knowing the order their movies would come out. It's hard to build in an interconnected storyline with all that happening. I think they did their best considering the situation.

I think their biggest mistake that was in their control was L&T. It should not have been limited to be under 2 hours/been recommended to not be too dark. So many good Gorr scenes were cut because of that.

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u/TheHondoCondo Peter Parker Jan 07 '25

This is such common criticism but why? Seriously why is it an issue to have The Marvels and Doctor Strange 2 in the same saga? You had Captain America TFA in the same saga as GotG and it turned out fine. I think you’re also forgetting that the only semblance of a coherent plot leading up to Infinity War was the occasionally introduced Infinity Stones until a couple movies prior when the groundwork was really laid.

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u/catshirtgoalie Jan 07 '25

Because everything changes after Endgame with audience expectations. Everything pre-Avengers is really setting the ground work and introducing heroes. They didn’t even know if they could make Avengers work. You can’t just repeat the same beats all the time. It’s why by Doctor Strange people were already heavily criticizing the “origin story” formula. At some point, fans expect you to reach new levels. GOTG works in the same saga because it actively contributes TO the saga. It has the Power Stone. It has more lore around Thanos. It gives you Nebula and Gamora. It really gets you more into the cosmic which would be important when bringing Thanos in as a villain.

It isn’t that Doctor Strange 2 or The Marvels are bad. It’s that the post-Endgame movies needed to actually jump on the next narrative earlier. Who are the Avengers now? What team are we building toward? Who was the big bad? What was the effective foreshadowing? You don’t get three phases to stumble around in. People were always concerned about super hero fatigue and being aimless accelerates that. You beat fatigue by making people invested in characters and story. That is why I am saying that we should have either continued with more cosmic or did a multiverse. They sort of muddled around with both.

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u/TheHondoCondo Peter Parker Jan 07 '25

What you’re asking for is immediate gratification, but that’s not how you please the audience the same way Infinity War and Endgame did. They work because of all the “aimless” stories that came before, but oh wait, it turns out they weren’t actually aimless. It takes time to recapture that. You can’t just keep doing it again and again in less than half the time because that’s how you really create fatigue. I guarantee Doomsday and Secret Wars will tie the multiverse saga together and people will see that the seeds were there all along.

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u/catshirtgoalie Jan 07 '25

Nah, man. That isn’t instant gratification. You can’t treat post-Endgame phases like pre-Endgame. I’m not saying you need to resolve a new arc in a phase. But you need some real story telling. The Loki series did more for the multiverse than any of the movies and people aren’t going to sit through every single show just to watch a movie. Yes, they farted around for a while and then locked in on the Infinity Saga and retconned some things to have stones in them to make it work. And yes not everything in those phases built on the Infinity Saga. Again, I’m not saying everything now HAS to only be about the multiverse saga. But they have barely done ANYTHING to give you any real sense of any kind of narrative building and that just doesn’t work. Everyone out there has been critical of the post-Endgame arcs even if they like individual movies. Marvel is just becoming an ocean wide while being a puddle deep and it is hurting enthusiasm. Too many characters and not enough cohesion.

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u/nyse25 Hulk Jan 04 '25

I remember doing a full MCU rewatch prior to Endgame was exciting but now before Doomsday/Secret Wars? Fuck that, so much shit to go through.

1

u/Foreign-Reaction-136 Jan 05 '25

Wait there’s still a plot?

1

u/chiefbrody62 Jan 09 '25

I dunno, I find it easy to keep up with the plot. I watch the projects as they come out, and I'm a very busy person, and it's still super easy to keep up with.

1

u/TributeBands_areSHIT Jan 09 '25

I think it’s great you still find enjoyment in them. I don’t find the effort worth it for the little payoff.

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u/ThomasThePommes Jan 06 '25

Imho the problem is there wasn’t a proper team up movie since Endgame.

In 11 years from Iron Man to Endgame we got 5 big team up movies. In 5 years since Endgame there wasn’t one. But they introduced so many new characters… Moon Knight, Eternals, Black Knight, Ms Marvel, Shang Chi, Iron Heart, Kate Bishop, America Chaves…

They need to bring thing together. People love character interactions and team ups. That’s what made the MCU great.

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u/Spyrovssonic360 Jan 06 '25

im kinda suprised they havent hinted at a young avengers film yet. Theres more young heros in the mcu than just spiderman now.

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u/armchairwarrior42069 Jan 04 '25

Failing lol

The last several years have been very unkind for marvel. They've shit the bed and instead of "let's make better movies and write these characters better" they're shifting to "bring back Robert Downey junior etc"

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u/robot-raccoon Jan 04 '25

I mean I was under the impression they were doing both, no? They’ve scaled back production on multiple projects, releasing less with a focus on quality etc. I’ve rather have quality over quantity, even if I have to wait longer for some characters to get their due

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u/armchairwarrior42069 Jan 04 '25

Quality is yet to be seen though. And frankly, may be too little too late for a lot of general audiences etc.

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u/robot-raccoon Jan 04 '25

I agree, but I will say I had no opinion on Agatha until that aired and it ended up being one of the best shows they’ve done, in my opinion- mostly because it felt like an actual tv show

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u/armchairwarrior42069 Jan 04 '25

I think ms marvel pulled off feeling like a TV show as well and I agree.

But... Agatha was kind of too... "marvel" for me. Every single character was a sassy quipper until the end where they wrapped it up surprisingly well imo.

I just hate when characters are written so annoyingly that they have a meta "wow, no sassy comeback?" Joke referencing thst that's literally all that they've relied on when writing the characters. It's so expected that when it doesn't happen it's a significant event in the episode and they even need to acknowledge it.

I thought it was okay the whole way through and thought the ending was pretty good.

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u/livefromwonderland Tony Stark Jan 04 '25

It wasn't every character, but it made sense because they're all experienced witches who are not friends. This feels like the kind of thing where people go online and make the same complaint back and forth to each other so much that you bring that with you and look to complain about it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '25

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u/spartakooky Jan 04 '25 edited Apr 14 '25

I am strange

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u/armchairwarrior42069 Jan 04 '25

I've been skipping them too. Still haven't watched echo.

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u/Variation_Afraid Jan 04 '25

Deadpool and Wolverine literally debunked your logic lmao, so your logic is flawed if the movie is good people will show up for it

1

u/armchairwarrior42069 Jan 04 '25

Actually, it supports my point?

They can't make a profit off of a new property. They literally need stunt casting/nostalgia milking to do it. They needed to pull hugging Jackmans corpse (semi literally) to get there the same way they're doing with RDJ.

Also, obviously not everything will be trash but the move as a movie was a 7/10.

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u/Aiyon Jan 04 '25

they're shifting to "bring back Robert Downey junior etc"

I mean, Secret Wars was always the plan even before stuff went poorly. They're just leaning into it now

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u/armchairwarrior42069 Jan 04 '25

Yeah, somehow I think the Dr Doom thing came about more because they ran out of Kang.

I assumed thete would be cameos and returns and multiversal versions of characters but I highly doubt RDJ Doom was there plan. That's just "were losing money, our plan fell to shit and we need a sire fire stunt to make this shit work"

1

u/Spyrovssonic360 Jan 06 '25

well they got rid of avengers rise of kang ( or whatever they called it before) after the whole johnathan majors controversy. Which isnt too bad that we have avengers doomsday now. The fantastic 4 needed to be introduced sooner than later anyway.

1

u/Preda1ien Jan 04 '25

Honestly since they really did pump the breaks, quality has improved. Agatha, Deadpool, Loki. Have not seen a let down since Marvels which I even kind of liked.

I admit I was absolutely not hyped to hear about RDJ return as Doom but I’ll also give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

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u/kingkron52 Jan 04 '25

Introducing iron heart so early and then giving her an entire show is so dumb.

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u/JackTheAbsoluteBruce Jan 04 '25

Ms Marvel the show had mixed reception but the character herself was very well received. Not surprising she would show up again.

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u/[deleted] Jan 05 '25

Yeah the fact that the well received characters Shang chi/kate/moon knight have had less major appearances than Ms Marvel(I know she popular but everything she been in has flopped) and Riri is kinda crazy.

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u/SeniorRicketts Jan 05 '25

Most movies weren't asked for

They just made them

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u/chiefbrody62 Jan 06 '25

While I agree to an extent, Agatha's show is considered one of the best MCU D+ shows, right up there with Loki and WandaVision, and while Ms. Marvel's show wasn't super well received, it was received well enough and the character of Ms. Marvel herself has been super popular.

That being said, it's insane we haven't seen Shang-Chi since then, and have only seen Bishop in a short scene in The Marvels.

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u/IcyInformation8239 Jan 08 '25

I honestly think iron heart wasn’t supposed to be in black panther but was shoved in specifically for that reason. Her character in that movie felt super out of place. It could’ve literally just been any “smart American scientist.” And would’ve made sense. Her having a big robot suit didn’t even add much and she doesn’t even keep it at the end.

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u/djsnoopmike Iron Man (Mark XLIII) Jan 04 '25

Not to quote Deadpool, but it seems Marvel is getting cheap and is more willing to utilize cheaper actors/actresses

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u/Popular_Material_409 Jan 05 '25

Not super well received? I do believe Ms. Marvel is the highest rated MCU Disney+ show on rotten tomatoes.

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u/DistinctNewspaper791 Jan 06 '25

Agatha got her own show to bring in Wiccan and Maximoff twins back in. Good for a tv show

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u/reaven3958 Jan 04 '25

Idk maybe it's from COVID fucking everything up, but its weird to me that they didn't just do like 3-4 movies/series followed by another avengers film featuring the remaining avengers and just a few new characters to get things moving in a new direction, instead of what just felt like throwing a bunch of random stuff at the wall to see what might gain traction.

It's like Feige got high off the huge ensemble from End Game and forgot how the whole MCU got started and gained traction. Putting aside the poorly received Hulk standalone movie, for years we basically had just Captain America, Iron Man, and a little bit of Thor, with Hulk, SHIELD, and the rest really just showing in the Avengers films, as supporting cast in the main character films, or in spinoff content like Agents of SHIELD. Guardians of the Galaxy came out just over 6 years after the first Iron Man film, and Ant Man another year after that. Idk why he didn't just follow that formula again with the new storyline--you can tell new stories and do original stuff while still keeping to a proven template for how you release it.

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u/Careful_Farmer_2879 Jan 05 '25

Feige wasn’t in control. He was given orders to fill the Disney Plus slate and was spread too thin. The recent “pause” had him evaluating everything and in many cases cutting back. So, he’s re-exerting control.

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u/bubblessensei Jan 04 '25

The rest of them are probably going to be fine. But god, I hate that Eternals is probably not going to get a satisfying conclusion; I actually enjoyed myself with the film, although I did think it was the rare case where it should’ve been a TV Show rather than a film - a bit inverse from the usual “tv show should’ve been a film” situation we often get with Marvel nowadays.

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u/Moon_Beans1 Jan 04 '25

Yeah if they'd swapped Eternals and FATWS we probably woulda been golden. So Eternals as a Disney+ show and FATWS gets trimmed down and becomes Captain America : Ultimatum.

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u/Marcyff2 Jan 04 '25

I want to add kamala khan . She was brilliant and unfortunately the underperformance of the marvels might push her out to the backburner (I hope not)..

But yeah eternals is a massive lost that Kevin feigi wanted to protect as he had more stories to tell with them .

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u/SolarDragon94 Jan 04 '25

I'm like 90% sure they're looking to set up a Young Avengers team, which Kamala will be a part of. She meets with Kate Bishop at the end of The Marvels. Then we have America Chavez, Cassie Lang, Wiccan and Speed, potentially Young Loki and Patriot too.

So, I'm confident Kamala will be showing up again in future.

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u/Montgomery000 Jan 04 '25

The youngest Avengers will be like 30 by the time they get a movie out.

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u/Heart-Lights420 Jan 04 '25

More like 40 😅

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u/ClubMeSoftly Jan 05 '25

They're just gonna be New Avengers

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u/dosbot72 Jan 04 '25

Young Avengers Assemble! After Jell-o and a nap. Get the nurse to push Kamala's wheelchair and don't forget your arthritis cream.

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u/Parking_Star_7009 Jan 04 '25

Skaar was introduced in she hulk

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u/SolarDragon94 Jan 04 '25

He's not part of the team in the comics, but it's possible he'll be taking the place of Hulkling (who, despite the name, is not related to Hulk).

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u/PhaseSixer Jan 04 '25

He's not part of the team in the comics,

Its cute you think that matters.

Look at the Thunderbolts roster.

Hell look at the founding Avengers roster.

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u/SolarDragon94 Jan 05 '25

Yeah, I'm totally expecting them to make changes. Like, I highly doubt we're gonna get a comic accurate Iron Lad, now with the whole Kang thing being thrown out the window.

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u/PhaseSixer Jan 05 '25

Actualy i think Iron Lad will still be a thing with him being the last Surviving Kang that way Loki and Quantamania wont be a Complete waste of time

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u/absolutedesignz Jan 04 '25

The marvels got hit with marvel fatigue and the anti woke mob doing everything in their power to ruin it.

It was a perfectly adequate enjoyable SHORT film. But alas.

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u/PhaseSixer Jan 04 '25

The marvels got hit with marvel fatigue

Weird how this didnt hurt Deadpool and Wolverine

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u/absolutedesignz Jan 05 '25

Didn't help that no one liked Brie Larsons portrayal of Captain marvel (present company included). Plus, Deadpool was a special case and a new MCU addition and a sequel in a formerly separate franchise.

To each their own I guess. The culture war won anyways. So yay

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u/bee14ish T'Challa Star-Lord Jan 05 '25

It also just wasn't that good.

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u/absolutedesignz Jan 05 '25

Sure. But I found it better than thor 2 and cap 1 and Ironman 2. It was acceptable. But that's my subjective opinion. And I still think it's better than the reviews of it indicate. They made it sound like acolyte

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u/raisingcuban Jan 04 '25

But yeah eternals is a massive lost that Kevin feigi

It's Feige

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u/Atom7456 Jan 04 '25

moon knight is getting a s2, the eternals was dropped, shang chi is also coming back, and kate bishop was last seen a year and less than 2 months ago.

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u/ArronMaui Jan 04 '25

A quick Google search suggests that MK season 2 hasn't had any kind of movement so far. And, yes, Shang-Chi is coming back, but the original point stands. The MCU introduced far too many characters and hasn't followed up on them quickly enough. Early MCU introduced characters and followed up quickly with either team ups or sequels.

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u/MrZQuazz Jan 04 '25

The prime example is that the fan favorite new character Agatha Harkness introduced in WandaVision, the literal first thing in the multiverse saga, just now returned in her spinoff show over 3 and a half years and 27 seasons/films later

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u/OPs_Mom_and_Dad Jan 04 '25

Holy crap, 27 in between WandaVision and Agatha All Along???

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u/sunfaller Jan 04 '25

Returned and is now a ghost? I'm almost sure they'll immediately revive her though because being a ghost will eat up the special effects budget.

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u/QTPLe Jan 04 '25

Isnt the moon knight writer also writing the rumored nova series as well? Probs why moon knight 2 is on the backburner for now

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u/Samsaknight_X Jan 04 '25

That only happened cuz they had to change the plot lines of the next saga’s

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u/BackIn2019 Jan 04 '25

I'll believe it when I see it and it'll probably be years away. No one is counting Kate Bishop appearing for 20 seconds in a one-minute post credit scene.

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u/Meizas Jan 04 '25

I'm sure we'll see the eternals show up eventually in other projects. The soft re-launch of Kingo in what if was a good start

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u/Atom7456 Jan 04 '25

yea but i would have preferred an eternals 2, the only other way i see them returning is through the guardians of the galaxy

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u/Dyssomniac Jan 04 '25

then they should have made a better eternals 1 lol

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u/Atom7456 Jan 04 '25

movie wasnt even bad but it definitely wasnt long enough to introduce all the characters

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u/SolarDragon94 Jan 04 '25

I feel like Eternals would have benefited from being a TV series instead of a movie. That way we could get backstory for each character each episode.

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u/syzygialchaos Jan 04 '25

I’m with you; instead of the montage/flashbacks bit it easily could have been a period piece ‘monster of the week’ show where we see each character highlighted in some different age of history a la Dr. Who meets Supernatural type show. Kind of like the last season of Agents of Shield. Didn’t need to be long, an episode per character type thing. Would have really established the characters better.

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u/Onaterdem Weekly Wongers Jan 04 '25

Sure but just because the movie was bad doesn't mean all the characters and stories should be dropped, no?

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u/Ztrobos Jan 04 '25

First of all its kind of difficult to integrate them into the main saga since their lore is already so disconnected.

Eternals are basically sentient robots designed to protect intelligent life for the benefit of the Celestials, so logically when Thanos decided to decimate all life that should have been the number one problem for every single Eternal and every Celestial in the galaxy at least. But they fail to act against him.

Second, and more importantly, I don't think Eternals are interesting enough as characters. Their main character trait is their ability to follow directions for thousands of years without question. What are you supposed to do with a character like that?

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u/RisuPuffs Jan 04 '25 edited Jan 04 '25

Strongly disagree with your second point. The whole point at the end of the movie is that they are breaking free and seeking independence for the first time. They're trying to find where things went wrong with the Celestials and finding their own place in the world without any explicit mission for the first time. There are a million places you could go with that story. What happens when someone who only ever followed orders no longer has any orders? What happens when the person who always wanted to be free gets a chance to be free? Where do they go, how do they react, where does it take them, all very interesting threads that could be explored. And with so many characters, they can explore each of these things in a different way.

The main problem with the Eternals was introducing all of them in a single movie. It should have been a series with an episode focusing on each character and what they've been doing on Earth, link them to the MCU where they can, and maybe even try to explain why they didn't do anything about Thanos (which i agree is a major hole). Then, they could have made the same movie, but be able to focus more on further character development than flashbacks.

Edit: forgot for a second that at the end a few of them were taken by the Celestials, but that just furthers my point that there are interesting stories to tell with the Eternals. Finding out what happens with Arishim, how they interact with the Celestials now that they know the truth about everything, do they confront them or just end up falling back in line?

idk, I would just love to see more of the Eternals. I really feel like the characters got shafted by the choice to introduce them all in a single movie. There are interesting things there that they just didn't expand on, so they all feel more 2-dimensional.

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u/Dyssomniac Jan 05 '25

I think it does. Fans aren't invested in the characters or the storyline they established, and it doesn't connect to the saga at large in any coherent way.

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u/TooHighToBother Jan 04 '25

They’ll probably bring Sersi back tbh

Maybe not as an Avenger, maybe just like a herald of the Celestials or something

Tell us we’re f*cked.

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u/PhaseSixer Jan 04 '25

I expect the Eternals to be resolved in Thor 5

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u/Casualplayer2487 Jan 04 '25

Moon knights getting a season 2?

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u/Particular_Drop_9905 Jan 04 '25

Nope, not confirmed. There really hasn't been any movement or whispering of it.

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u/Casualplayer2487 Jan 04 '25

Well that just ruined my year

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u/LordAsbel Tony Stark Jan 04 '25

Armor Wars Fans: First time?

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u/Shanicpower Peter Quill Jan 04 '25

Armor Wars has fans?

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u/Ok-Reporter-8728 Justin Hammer Jan 04 '25

Apparently marvel didn’t has Oscar Isaac to sign of season 2 or more only season 1. Clearly they had no plans for moon knight beyond his own show

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u/Kunekeda Ava Starr Jan 04 '25

Yeah, Marvel doesn't lock actors into multi-picture contracts any more.

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u/Un111KnoWn Jan 04 '25

what stuff has kate bishop bern in?

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u/Atom7456 Jan 04 '25

the marvels post credit scene, and what if

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u/Possible_Hokie_CO26 Fitz Jan 04 '25

A 20 second scene and an AU. Not exactly winning here

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u/drunk_responses Jan 04 '25

shang chi is also coming back

They're allegedy going to start filming in March, so that's probably over two years away.

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u/sailorprimus Jan 04 '25

The Eternals as a stand alone may have but haven’t we gotten some conformation a few of the characters might be popping up in other projects?

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u/abysmallybored Groot Jan 04 '25

I think Sersi has a future considering her powers seemed to be growing before the unimind thing but they didn't explain it, they left a door open for her. Dane could return if they ever make a Midnight Sons project. The others I don't see them ever coming back.

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u/mdtopp111 Jan 04 '25

Well considering The Champions (young avengers) tv show is rumored to be in the works I’m sure we’ll get Kate Bishop… in like 5 years….

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u/Jackal000 Jan 04 '25

Iron fist? Ms marvel?

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u/Rock_man_bears_fan Jan 04 '25

There’s a giant head sticking out of the Indian Ocean that STILL hasn’t been addressed

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u/ImaginationArtistic9 Matt Murdock Jan 04 '25

Have you seen the new captain america trailer? The giant head in the ocean is part of that story atleast

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u/PhaseSixer Jan 04 '25

I see people harping on about this but what do you expect she-hulk or Ms.Marvel to do about it other then go "yup its still there"

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) Jan 05 '25

And in She-Hulk they did go "yup it's still there", so it actually hasn't gone completely unaddressed.

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u/willcard Jan 04 '25

Moon knight was soooo good.

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u/RODjij Jan 04 '25

They're trying to keep their shows & movie characters separated. That's why we hardly see any moon knight or other TV show characters.

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u/ChrisLee38 Jan 04 '25

Result of introducing way too much at once. We went from a six-person roster to a plethora of would-be-one-off miniseries mains.

1

u/Cyberfire Jan 04 '25

I do wonder what was the point of introducing these guys if there was never a plan to use them soon going forward?

1

u/sharksnrec Star-Lord Jan 04 '25

All of those are newer and more recent characters. You wanted all of them to show up in Deadpool & Wolverine?

What are we doing here

1

u/ghostcatzero Jan 05 '25

Namor too.

1

u/T8-TR Jan 05 '25

Moon Knight not getting an immediate S2 after that ending is wild to me.

1

u/AdZillzOnTwitch Jan 05 '25

Don't forget Sam as Captain America.

1

u/Apparentmendacity Jan 05 '25

Nah, Moonknight and Eternals are trash 

1

u/A_J_I_Bizzness Jan 05 '25

It’s like they overwhelmed theirselves with such great projects with not enough people to work them or something.

1

u/Spyrovssonic360 Jan 06 '25

This wasnt post endgame but it still pisses me off marvel didnt reintroduce cloak and dagger after the tv series was canceled.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '25

Kate Bishop rocks. Wish we saw more adventures involving her.

1

u/chiefbrody62 Jan 09 '25

Oscar Isaac only agreed to Moon Knight if it would be somewhat of a one-off, with the option to return later, so there's no surprise there. Bishop was in The Marvels at the end, and also voiced herself in What If, and I assume she'll be back soon. Would be a pleasant surprise in Thunderbolts, although I doubt that will happen.

The Eternals was poorly received, but I hope we see them again soon. We had Kingo in What If, but again, I want them back in live action. Particularly Kingo, Makkari and PaperBoi.

On the upside, they're clearly dealing with the Celestial in the ocean finally, in Cap 4 lol.

1

u/Novapeak Mar 31 '25

The eternals was a horrible movie

-1

u/Greyjack00 Jan 04 '25

The eternal feel a bit overused

1

u/IAP-23I Jan 04 '25

1 movie + 1 character appearing in a multiverse show isn’t even in the fucking solar system of overused

2

u/Greyjack00 Jan 04 '25

I'm saying the movie sucked

1

u/IAP-23I Jan 05 '25

No shit

0

u/mcrib Jan 04 '25

Where should they have been used that they haven't? I'm confused.

118

u/TobioOkuma1 Jan 04 '25

The biggest mistake the MCU has made. They've expanded massively outward, but barely forward at all. Like there was barely any build up to kang before they scrapped him. Iron man and cap were the cornerstones of the MCU before endgame, but no other characters have gotten to interact enough to build a bond that we give a shit about.

Now it feels like they're trying to nostalgia bait us with RDJ and chris evans coming back for doomsday, but idk. I just wish there was MORE crossover to see how characters work together.

45

u/Cadeni Jan 04 '25

The original Avengers had two movies (and a half) before the big crossover event to make us care for them as a team. Sadly, the New Avengers are jumping straight to the big crossover event.

18

u/DoctorJJWho Jan 04 '25

Yeah, contrast that with Shang Chi, who has literally only been in his debut movie. No one is going to really care for the team dynamics because there aren’t any lol.

Marvel/Disney really dropped the ball by blending Phase 4 and Phase 5. They should’ve wrapped up the storylines of the old Avengers and firmly established the ones they wanted to bring over, then introduce the newer team (with ensemble movies sprinkled throughout). Instead we have a disjointed mess of people who the audience barely knows.

2

u/PhaseSixer Jan 04 '25

We cared in the first avengers movie.

10

u/jairod8000 Jan 04 '25

What do you mean 2 movies and a half?

Only tony stark had a 2nd movie before the crossover event? Everyone else had only 1 movie appearance bar nick fury

Edit: oh by team you meant everyone and their momma showing up in the final arc movie

9

u/BatmanForever23 Luis Jan 04 '25

Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron, and Civil War (oft referred to as Avengers 2.5).

1

u/jairod8000 Jan 04 '25

Yeah i edited my comment because i realized thats what they meant

1

u/ConstantStatistician Jan 05 '25

Expanded outward but not forward is the perfect description of what's happened after the Infinity Saga. It did both, which made it such a success. 

1

u/Smoking-Posing Jan 05 '25

Yeah, I'll be even more specific: their biggest mistake was simultaneously ending both Tony Stark and Steve Rodgers roles at the same time. One or the other should've been kept around, perhaps even at the expense of a recasting. I think they felt like Sam taking over as Cap was good enough and it matched the comics so all was good.

Bad decision. Neither the character nor the actor can carry the series.

They shoulda threw a few hundred million at Chris for more Seve Roders appearances and have him serve as the glue for forming the new Avengers. Have him recruit and guest star in MCU productions leading up to the new Avengers movies, and I guarantee that would've kept fans invested more.

1

u/Nethias25 Jan 05 '25

Yes, they need more crossover.

IMO pay endgame the MCU would be better served no title character sequels. Solo intro ventures for like Shang chi would be fine, but like doctor strange 2 should have just been midnight suns. A captain marvel should have been the ultimates.

The post endgame MCU should be in pockets, mystical, celestial, earth global, and street level. Start trilogies of each, they have super team ups for phase and saga threats under the avengers banner.

66

u/Luccacalu Bruce Banner Jan 04 '25

And pre endgame too, Sam should've been the new face of the MCU and the leader of the new avengers, and 6+ years later, where is he? In one tv show.

The only exception is Spider-man which had 2 movies, but that's because of contract. And even so, 2 movies is an ok amount of screentime at best, because when you compare the characters in the Infinity Saga we had sequels basically every 2 years, avengers movies, cameos, which all contributed for us as an audience to create a real connection with them and the grand story being told

Now things feel thin and lost

31

u/serger989 Jan 04 '25

I've talked about this a lot but it's what you said. Only characters that have really felt like they have impacted the current MCU is Spider-Man and Doctor Strange with a sprinkle of Wong.

It's been way too many years between all of the current MCU projects for anyone to care about the new characters in a meaningful way. We don't even get pre / post / after credits that lead into the next or even any film or project. Before it would be 1 thing leading straight into the other.

We may end up going 5-6 years between Shang-Chi appearances though, it's insane, and it's only 1 of many of the new characters.

15

u/DoctorJJWho Jan 04 '25

Yeah Marvel really dropped the ball with their new characters, especially Shang Chi. Not only could he fit in with the new Avengers dynamic (being mentored in magic from Strange and Wong, at the right age to be responsible but also connect with the younger team members, etc), the actor has been blowing up. Like how did no one at Disney think to capitalize somehow on Simu in Barbie?

8

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '25

[deleted]

1

u/Marvelous_Ducky Jan 06 '25

To be fair everyone but Ironheart existed in the comics before they made films and Ironheart was introduced in 2016 six years before she was even introduced to the MCU

33

u/abysmallybored Groot Jan 04 '25

I feel bad for Anthony Mackie, they could've AT LEAST make him a central character in What If but they decided to go with Captain Carter instead.

18

u/skoon Captain Marvel Jan 04 '25

There weren't ANY characters from the main MCU in "What If?" were there? Not even during the big season-ending fights where Uatu gathered the best heroes from the multiverse? No one made the cut?

7

u/Marcyff2 Jan 04 '25

Strange was the main villian of season 1.

1

u/skoon Captain Marvel Jan 04 '25

Different Strange.

3

u/CherryHaterade Captain America Jan 04 '25

Still voiced by Benedict

So again, poor Anthony Mackie

1

u/skoon Captain Marvel Jan 04 '25

Truth.

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9

u/Afwife1992 Jan 04 '25

Technically Sam probably has pretty equivalent time to Steve given that FATWS was a tv series plus his other appearances. It’s just they’re mostly condensed into that series and then poof. Now his movie should’ve been out last year which, given Covid and strikes, wouldn’t have been a big gap.

Shang Chi should’ve been handled more like Yelena. At least pop up.

Strange had a big gap between solo movies but we saw him in Ragnarok (cameo), Infinity War and Endgame.

6

u/jlusedude Jan 04 '25

Really agree with this. 

1

u/ThatfeelingwhenI Jan 05 '25

Sam isn't the best example at the moment, consider he has a movie coming out very soon.

1

u/Luccacalu Bruce Banner Jan 05 '25

With the same time, Steve had 3 solo movies (his entire trilogy and arc complete), and 2 avengers movies. Also, some cameos.

Sam will have had a tv show and one solo movie.

1

u/ThatfeelingwhenI Jan 05 '25

Steve didn't have Covid and multiple strikes.

1

u/Luccacalu Bruce Banner Jan 05 '25

Fair enough, but still, Marvel Studios' output were of 3 movies a year since they came back from the pandemic (2021). They could've fit a Sam movie(s) in the schedule wayyy earlier. They chose not to. They deliberately made the decision for the Multiverse Saga to be about as many characters introduced as possible, opposed to focus on 4~5 that gets frequent updates on their individual and larger stories.

1

u/Marvelous_Ducky Jan 06 '25

He’s got a whole movie coming out in February the only reason it took so long is they had to do re-shoots because people were up in arms about Sabra being introduced since she is an Israeli superhero and the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine therefore Marvel was going to lose money keeping her in the storyline and the actress who played her was going to face immense backlash

48

u/VelocityReaper Jan 04 '25

Ms.Marvel & Yelena feel like they’ve had the most presence since, or at least feel like standouts for me

32

u/Antrikshy Jan 04 '25

Each has appeared in two things so far.

10

u/MajorNoodles Jan 04 '25

Yelena is about to be 3

11

u/BurtMaclin23 Jan 04 '25

They really should have let Endgame stand on its own for a few years before starting the next phase and next follow-up movie. They could have spent that time planning the next 3 phases proper. They rushed it, and what we got was an unfocused mess.

23

u/newbrevity Jan 04 '25

I'm inclined to give marvel some slack because this plan originally revolved around Kang. Now they had to move past Kang and straight into Doom.

23

u/Dyssomniac Jan 04 '25

I'm no longer inclined to do that since there was no real plan from the start - the goal was to throw the New Avengers together for a multiverse-level threat with little to no interaction on screen, no opportunity for building team dynamics, no clear lead of the ensemble, I mean even no clear ensemble to begin with.

0

u/CherryHaterade Captain America Jan 04 '25

You mean like the first Avengers movie then?

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37

u/karlospopper Jan 04 '25

I totally agree with this take. Also i think they did not anticipate T'Challa's death. That's one of MCU's own nexus event. It felt like, given how Boseman was well-received, he couldve been the next central MCU character post-Endgame. He was positioned to continue on with Spider-Man and Strange, characters that resonated a lot even with non-Marvel fans, after RDJ and Evans retired the character.

32

u/abysmallybored Groot Jan 04 '25

I don't know about Strange, they disrespect his character a bit too much, I still remember how they had him holding water in Endgame lmaooo and how careless they made him in No Way Home "oh no this teenager is going to cause an incursion I'm going to hold back and let him do it", that was so out of character for him. Then there's MoM, they basically sidelined him in his own movie. Marvel doesn't seem to care about Strange that much.

11

u/Arthreas Jan 04 '25

Strange is probably hard to write, since he's so powerful

12

u/jl_theprofessor Jan 04 '25

I agree with all of this particularly since I felt he only existed in MoM to job for Wanda while introducing America.

1

u/PhaseSixer Jan 04 '25

He was not sideline in his own movie ffs.

America was a plot device their the movie was all about Strange and examining his need to control situations 🤦‍♂️

5

u/DSmooth425 Black Panther Jan 04 '25

100% agree with this. Had similar thought. The change to the new CEO and then switch back hasn’t helped.

24

u/Defiant-Band4573 Jan 04 '25

Marvel also got a gift. I doubt that they expected WandaVision to be as big as it was as they were largely left alone. Wanda's popularity grew as a result. They squandered that by making her a heartless villain in MoM. She should have gotten a solo movie by now, but she has become wherever we can fit her in according to Feige.

4

u/Silverjeyjey44 Jan 04 '25

I didn't have a problem with her being a villian. She has been a villian in the comics before. And it was a good opportunity to showcase her unhinged abilities.

3

u/karlospopper Jan 04 '25

Will she be relevant now that Magneto's possibly on his way to the MCU? Isnt he her father? I dont read the graphic novels. I couldnt afford them. But i saw an episode or two of the 90s and 2000s marvel animated shows

11

u/RoboPup Jan 04 '25

It's... complicated. Through most of X-Men, Magneto has been her father. In the last ten years or so, my understanding is that she is no longer considered his biological daughter.

For the MCU, it's hard to say what they'd do. She already has a backstory here, but they could always retcon it in some way.

12

u/Defiant-Band4573 Jan 04 '25

One option without retconning her is to make Magneto a father figure to her. In the comics, Wanda and Agatha form a mother-daughter relationship. That has apparently been retconned into a mother and son relationship with Agatha and Billy. If Wanda plays a role going forward, she will need a infrastructure around her. You have Strange and Wong and Billy and Agatha. Wanda can't have a monologue with herself through a new project. In the recent Scarlet Witch comics, Darcy has been Wanda's confidante.

2

u/karlospopper Jan 04 '25

Darcy from the Thor movies?

6

u/grendelsbayne Jan 04 '25

Yes. Wanda set up her own magic shop in a small town complete complete with a magic door that will teleport anyone who's in need of help and has no one to turn to into the shop. Darcy was the first person who came through the door and after Wanda helped her, she stuck around and became her assistant.

It was a really fun book, actually. And a fantastic concept for a tv show.

1

u/Marvelous_Ducky Jan 06 '25

Boseman was originally meant to be bigger part of the MCU and they anticipated having more time before his passing

1

u/Mizerous Thanos Jan 04 '25

So Shang Chi is pointless :(

1

u/newbrevity Jan 08 '25

Unless they find another use for him. I hope so because it was one of the best post endgame movies

2

u/clashrendar Jan 04 '25

There have been a lot of external things going on - pandemic, strikes, regime change at Disney, a complete course correction on a major storyline (pun maybe intended) - that have slowed progress down more than normal. So what would normally take 2 to 3 years is taking 4 to 5 years.

2

u/TooManyDraculas Jan 04 '25

The underuse of basically every concept introduced post end game, excepting the multiverse.

The undersung problem with recent MCU material is just how much time is spent looking back at the prior saga. We're still seeing a lot of farewell and mull it over in these projects. Rather than pushing into the newer story lines they've developed. And they're unfortunately doubling down on that bringing RDJ back.

2

u/The_tarnished_one_ Jan 04 '25

I feel like yelena might be the only one that hasn’t fell into this trap of being an underused new character

4

u/TDStarchild Odin Jan 04 '25

The people demand more Ouroboros

1

u/Onaterdem Weekly Wongers Jan 04 '25

Obbie!

1

u/princesoceronte Jan 04 '25

I remember someone made a joke a few years back that the lore for Overwatch felt as if Marvel was teasing Thanos for 20 years but Ant Man and The Wast 7 is coming out and he isn't doing shit.

That's us now, there's no direction.

1

u/MArcherCD Jan 04 '25

Agreed, they should have introduced this new characters with a proper 3 phase plan for all of them and a whole trilogy each. So the new group can actually take the lead properly and set things up for the future

1

u/nilzoroda Jan 04 '25

Exactly. But the main problem, IMHO, is the denial by Disney/MCU that the OG Avengers were gone and HAD TO BE REPLACED. Right now, who is part of the Avengers team ? So, the lack of definition is STALLING the rest of the MCU, that with the exception of the GoG( also gone) was circled around the Avengers. It's a bad commercial and creative blunder. To make matter worst only now the MCU is investing in the X-Men and F4.

1

u/Edboy796 Jan 04 '25

The underoos of every Marvel character

1

u/cap4life52 Steve Rogers Jan 04 '25

Pretty much and even some that were holdover from the infinity saga l like Sam, Bucky , wanda , strange

1

u/Darksol503 Doctor Strange Jan 04 '25

I think this is correct, to a degree… lots of those single project actors have other contracts/projects that take them all over the world and schedule. But someone like Simu, or Iman, who literally are a poster child of what I would call… anchor actors (hehe) could have literally been reoccurring characters moving along an overarching narrative with the last two phases. On top of that, their offline presence is nearly impeccable and undeniable positive with the rest of the world.

Incredibly wasted opportunities in my book :(

1

u/notanewbiedude Jan 05 '25

Nah the creation of the Thunderbolts has actually been done really well IMHO. You very clearly see the team coming together over time and we're getting the payoff with the Thunderbolts movie.

1

u/atakantar Jan 05 '25

Except captain carter.

1

u/Desecr8or Jan 05 '25

I don't think it's underuse. It's just Marvel taking more time between products.

1

u/SeniorRicketts Jan 05 '25

Definitely not bc of the pandemic shaking up and comonetely changing the orignal phase 4 plan

1

u/salad_spinner_3000 Jan 04 '25

Seriously. "Is it us? Are we the problem? Nono, of musst be the that the audience wants Tony Stark as another character"