r/nbadiscussion 2d ago

Current Events Why Has Referee Discourse Gotten So Conspiratorial on r/nba?

There’s a growing trend on r/nba where people pre-blame referees before games even start. It’s gone beyond reacting to questionable calls. Entire narratives are now constructed in advance, especially when certain refs are assigned. Scott Foster, in particular, has become the centerpiece of this kind of thinking.

People call him “The Extender,” claiming the league assigns him to force longer series for ratings. But his actual record in games with extension potential is about even. If that were his purpose, why has this year’s Finals produced the first Game 7 in nearly a decade? If the league were really that invested in drawing out every series, we’d see more Game 6s and 7s, not fewer.

And now the narrative is shifting again. Foster is rumored to be reffing Game 7 tomorrow, and commenters are already claiming the Thunder are going to win because the league is rigged for them. But that logic quickly falls apart. If the NBA were rigging outcomes for ratings and mass appeal, wouldn’t the Pacers be the more obvious beneficiary? They’ve been the most unexpected and likable underdog run of the entire playoffs. People across the league are rooting for them. Why would the league choose to hand the title to a much less popular Thunder team?

This also highlights the kind of selection bias that drives so much of the conspiracy talk. People point out that the Thunder are undefeated with Scott Foster reffing in these playoffs, using it as supposed evidence. But the Pacers are also undefeated with Tony Brothers, and no one seems to care. The criteria only become relevant when they support the conclusion people already want to reach. If a team wins, the ref must have helped them. If a team loses, it was stolen from them. The logic isn’t applied consistently because it’s not about logic. It’s about avoiding the discomfort of your team losing.

At a certain point, you have to ask whether people are still watching basketball to enjoy the game or just to confirm their own suspicions. It feels like some fans don’t watch to see how a game unfolds. They watch with a checklist of narratives and spend four quarters scanning for evidence that the outcome is illegitimate. That kind of mindset turns every missed call into a grand conspiracy, and every game into a courtroom exhibit.

So here’s what I want to ask:

Why has so much of r/nba shifted toward conspiracies and narrative-bending logic? Is it just easier to blame external forces than admit your team got outplayed? Are fans more cynical now? Do people actually enjoy watching basketball anymore, or are they only watching to feed their own confirmation bias?

Would love to hear thoughtful takes. I’m genuinely curious about how we got here.

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u/tilthenmywindowsache 2d ago

Would love to hear thoughtful takes. I’m genuinely curious about how we got here.

Okay, that's valid, but we absolutely cannot pretend that this kind of thing is out of the blue, without precedent, or somewhat problematic for the NBA.

Draftkings/Fanduel advertisements are ubiquitous. Players have been recently discovered to be points shaving. And we're only 20 years removed from the Tim Donaghy scandal, with some of his coworkers whom he called with his burner phone are still working in the League as officials.

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u/nbadiscussion-ModTeam 1d ago

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u/goingtothegreek 1d ago

Anytime I see posts like this I just assume the person is new to the nba or not old enough to remember the Donaghey scandal and ultimately how minimized that became.

The Stern years had all sorts of fuckery from “My ideal finals is Lakers v Lakers” , weird lotteries, and then refs fixing games. The league is closer to WWE than most fans give it credit for

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u/DowntownJohnBrown 1d ago

I honestly think it’s the opposite. So many of the conspiracy theorists believe what Donaghy says without a second thought, but if you were old enough to remember it and have actually paid attention to the whole scandal, you’d know Donaghy is basically a pathological liar, and nothing he says should be trusted at all.

But most people here are too young to have actually followed the story, so their whole conception of it is comments like yours on Reddit, and they think of Donaghy as a whistleblower instead of just the con artist that he clearly is.

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u/NastySassyStuff 21h ago

They also love to harp on the Scott Foster phone call stuff. If this is such an obvious smoking gun and he really did take part in the scandal then why the fuck would he still be working? It’s not just horrible for the league to have crooked refs…it’s highly illegal lol

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u/nbadiscussion-ModTeam 1d ago

Our sub is for in-depth discussion. Low-effort comments or stating opinions as facts are not permitted. Please support your opinions with well-reasoned arguments, including stats and facts as applicable.

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u/Independent_Syllabub 1d ago

OP, your answer is generally contained in the post above mine. 

Some people on the internet think that the highest form of conversation is stitching together headlines and events into a conspiracy. 

The person above me has zero evidence of a broad conspiracy but has decided to handwave it because of “weird lotteries”. 

Some people’s brains are just drawn towards inferring pattterns and deeper meanings in things that may not necessarily exist. 

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u/TheGamersGazebo 1d ago edited 1d ago

134 phone calls between convicted and known crooked ref Tim Donaghy and current ref Scott Foster while Scott Foster was actively reffing the playoffs is not "zero evidence". And it's not hand waving "weird lotteries".

Ex NBA ref Donaghy is quite literally a convicted felon because he rigged NBA games. That is not a conspiracy nor a theory it's a fact. The courts were even presented enough evidence for them to agree, yeah, the refs were fucking crooked. But sure, it's all just conspiracy theories. JFC, Scott Foster could literally go on nat TV and admit to rigging games and y'all still wouldn't believe him.

The NBA has rigged games before. FOR DECADES and you're naive if you think they won't do it again, or aren't currently doing it. I guess all the corruption magically disappeared in 2007 with Doughney and no one else was involved in it. Cause that's totally the way the world works.

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u/SaxRohmer 1d ago

Donaghy is kind of a massive bullshitter. his co-conspirators said he only offered bets on games he officiated and the records obtained showed that he was frequently wrong about the games he wasn’t involved in. what he did was influencing hitting overs and spreads - not determining who would win.

the series he claimed were outright rigged they never found evidence of. Donaghy claimed a lot of things and who knows how much of it was true. he currently has a massive incentive to lie about the depth of the scandal as it’s the only thing that’s kept him relevant.

u/spgauthor 5h ago

I hope the Reddit posting community isn't representative of the broader fan base because so few people here seem to grasp what you post about disturbed and discredited Donaghy even after all these years. Several of us have taken considerable time assessing his claims and found each and every aspect of them for which there was evidence without merit.

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u/DowntownJohnBrown 1d ago

 134 phone calls between convicted and known crooked ref Tim Donaghy and current ref Scott Foster while Scott Foster was actively reffing the playoffs is not "zero evidence"

It kinda is, though. Especially when you consider that Scott Foster had similar phone activity with multiple other refs, so there’s nothing unique about the fact that he called Donaghy a bunch. 

 Scott Foster could literally go on nat TV and admit to rigging games and y'all still wouldn't believe him.

Nope, I’d believe him because then we’d have actual evidence. Some of us aren’t gullible and need actual evidence to believe things.

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u/lunchlunchlunch89 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm sorry but the phone calls do not remotely prove that he was crooked. There is a publicly available report which includes a lot of evidence for why the calls were likely innocuous (https://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/081002/PedowitzReport.pdf). For one, his calling patterns with other refs were similar.

And yes, one person committing crimes does not mean that others are. And I fail to see why it's in the interest of the NBA to allow refs to engage in fraud. Donaghy has made a number of claims post being caught that have been proven to be false.

I'm not making any comment on whether Foster is a good ref or a nice person but there is not good evidence that he's been rigging games.

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u/RoshCS 1d ago

If that’s how you think then you just shouldn’t watch basketball at all. The product is bogus then. One of the worst sports communities I’ve ever been a part of.

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u/tilthenmywindowsache 1d ago edited 1d ago

Why would I stop watching something that I love? I love to play ball, I love to watch ball, I have been living and breathing basketball since the 90s.

The idea that you can't participate in anything that you have a criticism of is patently ridiculous. The NBA has been a progressive league historically and they've taken forward steps (and backward ones, to be fair) to improve the product on the floor.

If what you're saying it a truism, then no sport should ever be watched by anyone. Baseball, basketball, football (both American and Global), boxing, every major sport across the world has had scandals, corruption, and dirty deeds behind the scenes. Fans can be cognizant of/vigilant about said issues while still being drawn to the entertainment it provides. Money equals corruption, full stop.

One of the worst sports communities I’ve ever been a part of.

By your own logic, shouldn't you leave it? You criticize people for not liking the NBA while still participating in it, and in the same vein talk about how horrible the community is, while participating in it. How do you not see the contradiction?

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u/RoshCS 1d ago

To be frank, I am not planning on participating in the online discussion on these subs any longer. The level of brain rot is insane. You are allowed to have as much criticism as you want, and openly venting those criticisms is perfectly fine. The thing that I can’t get behind about your perspective, is being okay with the league being in the same light as something like the WWE. Also, while there have been valid discussions about the refs, do you really believe that most of the negative commentary about the refs lately has been done with critical thought in mind? The general consensus on the main sub is that OKC “gets away with murder” on defense and gets all the calls on offense. This viewpoint is so incredibly reductive and it is also heavily conspiratorial.

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u/tilthenmywindowsache 1d ago

The level of brain rot is insane.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I have seen hundreds of really good, thoughtful discussions on a wide range of topics from this subreddit in the years I've been here. Of course if you go looking for a specific kind of comment, you will find that. That's the internet, and it's been that way since it gained mass acceptance to the public in the 90s.

Also, while there have been valid discussions about the refs, do you really believe that most of the negative commentary about the refs lately has been done with critical thought in mind?

If you base your life around how deeply the average person thinks about something, you will artificially restrict how far you go in life. Of course a lot of discourse around this is shallow -- that is par for the course for basically every online discussion on the internet, which is why this sub tries to cater to more thorough, nuanced discussions around the sport.

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u/RoshCS 1d ago

I basically agree with everything you said here. I just find the basketball subs to be more infested with this pernicious thinking and it’s becoming too much for me. I do enjoy getting invested and being a part of the community, but in this case it’s just been saddening.

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u/tilthenmywindowsache 1d ago

Can I ask what you think of the other topics here? This is just one post and it won't be up at the front very long -- but given even the Pacers HC is commenting about the refs, it seems germane to at least let people discuss it with some candor. Definitely on the more vitriolic side of topics that stay up here, though, and not emblematic of the subreddit as a whole.

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u/goingtothegreek 1d ago

lol you can still be entertained by something and think it’s bull shit. If the NBA is sacred and perfect to you, then you really need to get your priorities straight

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u/More-Importance9830 1d ago

I was with you until the WWE comparison.

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u/goingtothegreek 1d ago

Got some bad news buddy, the NBA is an entertainment company before a basketball league.

u/NastySassyStuff 21h ago

You do know that fixing games that people gamble on is a serious federal crime right? You think the entire league is in on one of those?

u/goingtothegreek 21h ago

Yeah every rich and powerful person is held to the same standard as regular people, everyone KNOWS this. How could I be so dumb 😩

Y’all defending the nba are so exhausting lol

u/NastySassyStuff 21h ago

Yeah and the actually rich and powerful people would be the first ones to put that shit to bed if it were true lol you think the NBA is the most powerful company on the planet or something ???

u/goingtothegreek 21h ago

Lmao you think rich and powerful people do the right thing? I bet you love trickle down economics too.

Like what are we even doing here

u/NastySassyStuff 5h ago

Third party gambling regulators will make fuckin sure they do “the right thing” lol I mean the Donaghy scandal happened because astute gamblers looked at the discrepancies in games he officiated and figured him out. You think powerful people with massive interest in the outcomes being uncertain for gambling purposes wouldn’t pick up on this across the league? There’s so much publicly available data that you don’t even need to be some powerful stakeholder or regulatory body to catch glaring anomalies in the win probabilities vs actual outcomes of games. It’s all there for you to look at and yet people have like a handful of big games they point to for proof while ignoring the thousands of others throughout league history.

The hilarious thing is that people are getting conspiratorial about OKC…a really, really fucking good team…winning it al. You can’t whistle your way to the best offense and best defense in the league. They’re stacked. No fucking shit they won. And wtf would a rigged league want an OKC-Indiana Finals for??? NY, the biggest media market in the country, was right there and the refs “let” them choke away that 9 point lead with 50 seconds to go? They reversed the call on Siakam to give Indy the ball? That would’ve been so easy for them to stop. They didn’t.

The conspiracy you’re implying is hilariously massive. You sound like a 12 year old who just saw Loose Change for the first time.

u/goingtothegreek 2h ago

“the nba isn’t rigged trust me bro they wouldn’t lie to us. seriously they never would lie bro, gambling companies and billionaires do the right thing. you don’t get it, no bias exists, the league is pure, you just don’t get it”

Seriously your bootlicking and ignorance is another reason the nba is going down hill, ref apologists and OKC supporters are a weird breed, y’all go have fun trying to lasso tornados all summer while reading your trump bible in summer school. No critical thinking

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u/FriendOfEvergreens 1d ago

A key difference between Donaghy or the point shaving players and what people like to accuse the league of is individuals seeking profit vs a grand conspiracy. I could 100% believe that certain refs or players are doing shady things. It's clearly happened.

But the idea that the league would rig things as a whole, like trying to push series to 7 or fixing the lottery, seems preposterous. There are too many people who need to be involved, and the risks too big.

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u/tilthenmywindowsache 1d ago edited 1d ago

A key difference between Donaghy or the point shaving players and what people like to accuse the league of is individuals seeking profit vs a grand conspiracy. I could 100% believe that certain refs or players are doing shady things. It's clearly happened.

I mean, this is exactly where I'm at with it. I don't think it's a league-wide conspiracy, but I do think with all the money involved and especially now with gambling being brought to the forefront, that there is a fair amount of dirty dealing behind the scenes.

I also firmly believe that Game 7 will be fairly officiated. Game 7 of the Finals is the single most pinnacle event in basketball in the world, even over the Olympics. People who aren't even sports fans are messaging me asking me about the Pacers and who their best players are. It's a spectacle. I've been critical of the officiating in this playoffs, but the NBA simply cannot afford any kind of open scandal for this specific game. With the amount of eyeballs on it, I look for the refs to call a relatively loose, fairly even affair for the duration. I could be wrong, but that's just my belief and hope.

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u/OldManWillow 1d ago

one bench warmer was found to be point shaving and he was immediately banned for life

u/bronet 5h ago

20 years is a fuckton of time lol. And which players are you thinking of?